Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

[jonnyGURU]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

I don't see many Teapos in PSU's that buldge. Motherboards are another story, though. Same is true with CapXcon. I have no issue with either in a PSU.

The OCZ 700W does have small sinks, but they seem to hold up. FSP seems to be doing some black magic to get that PSU to work at all. I "accidently" loaded one up to 800W (had 12V load up to max but forgot to bring 5V back down) and the PSU putted along just fine. Ran it at 700W for half an hour and the temp in the PSU never exceeded 35C. Of course, that was on a bench. I just built a duct going from the load tester exhaust to the side panel of a case I'm going to use as a test rig so the ambient temps will be more realistic for my testing platform.

The only thing I didn't like about the FSP/OCZ 700W was the fan. Seemed to "sing" and at higher RPM's it sounded like an emergency broadcastic system alert. It doesn't have independent voltage regulation either, but with modern computers having a fairly static load on the 5V rail and most of their load on the 12V, crossloads aren't a very common phenomenom.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

I would love to see a picture of PSU with good caps inside, so if you stumble upon one, please post. I'm sure most BadCaps members will applaud you!

See this thread, (scroll down to post 10 in it...)

[tiresias]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Here's another, pictures originally from some obscure Russian site...

Delta DPS-600MB, the same PSU that Intel includes in its server chassis such as SC5275 and SC5300 base model.

All NCC/UCC, as you can see. Interesting PSU layout too.

[linuxguru]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

The 380W Delta OEM PSU on a 8-year old HP Kayak also looks somewhat similar - a 2-piece sandwich with cables running between the two halves. That one had Rubycons, Nichicons and Chemicons.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

I don't see many Teapos in PSU's that buldge. Motherboards are another story, though. Same is true with CapXcon. I have no issue with either in a PSU.

Same - I now only object to Teapo when used on a mainboard. I just haven't seen many go in a PSU. So far anyway. Same with Capxon. Fuhjyyu is another story - Channel Well needs to quit using them.

I have no problems with the FSP 700W heatsinks - it doesn't need them to be that large at 80+% efficiency.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Not to spoil the fun but I got a mail from Joe about the Samxon 10mm 3300uF caps, which unfortunately confirmed my suspicion, which was:

Though I do think the Fuhjyyu 3300uF caps are overrated, i.e. I do not think they can provide 3300uF, even when they are brand new, that is just my own theory though so please don't quote me on it elsewhere...

Oh, I think may be trodas got misunderstanding. I have Samxon GD 2200uF 16v
D10x25mm soon only, not 3300uF 16v. 2200uF 16v Diameter in 10mm is very
rare.

3300uF 16v is impossible Diamter in 10mm. If yes, it is fake or under
quality caps, don't trust.

3300uF 16v at least diameter in 12.5mm, this is industry stadnard and
technical problem. I think you should understand.

Best regards,
Joe (Big Pope)

I was with my original question hoping someone would chime in and tell me I'm wrong or right but no one did so I'll "ask" it again; do you think the Fuhjyyu 3300uF caps are overrated, and by overrated I mean not able to provide 3300uF even when they are brand new?

I.e. could we just replace them with a known good cap of a lower rating, say 2200uF and still provide the same bulk capacitance as a new Fuhjyyu 3300uF capacitor?

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

The layout of that Delta is nice and clean.

The typical tolerance for lytics is +/-20% - 2640uF-3960uF for 3300uF nominal. A capacitance meter should be able to tell you whether F-yu's are out of tolerance or not. I wouldn't be surprised if F-yu's process is designed such that actual capacitances will always be below the nominal capacitance. That said, I'd be more worried about the general stability of F-yu's electrolytes and especially in elevated ambient temperatures.

[Rainbow]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

And what about 10mm 4700uF/6.3V Licon? I changed a lot of them because of bulging on late Socket 370 PCPartner boards.

[trodas]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

tiresias - interesting. Very. But where one can buy such PSU? I never saw Delta in anything except loud hi-CFM fans...


Per Hansson - you got it all entierly wrong, mate. Entierly. Please check again that these 3300uF ones are used for 5V and 3.3V rails and therefore rated originaly at 10V and I will use 6.3V ones w/o problems (these are d10 and available).

The problem ones are the 2200uF 16V d10 ones and they is postponed to 10 July, instead of end of this month, but that it is. I told you repeately over and over that and you did not seems to gasp it at all. You even misread the specs of the caps (eg. rated voltage). There was never ever been any 3300uF 16V cap in Antec PSU ...

I lost words. Sorry for being unfiendly, but I can't get it what "problem" you have there. Can't. And I won't elaborate it one more time. Instead you should rather check the R117, if you can, for the colors of the stripes...

My bet is brown, white, red, gold.

[Shroomie]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

trodas, all the ones I've seen have been OEM. I have a 185w Delta, 4a on the 12. Half size, good quality, but not powerful enough for anything I own... It came out of a HP Pavilion 8770, I think.

I've never seen Teapos fail in a PSU, but then I've only had a few with Teapos. The Sparkle I have from 1998 or so, came in an AOpen ATX barebones, is all Teapo (I think, know the input is) and it's still going strong, as is the PSU in my current machine, a ~350w Channel Well. All Teapo there.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Regarding to the FSP units and Caxon caps, i have to say that i am not thinking that they are bad caps. In no way. And the small heatsinks are no problem, due to the fact that FSP had optimized airflow in this psu to be very high. For sure, those psu`s arent for absolut silent freaks, as the airflow makes some nois, even if you put in the most silent fan. If you wana slow down the fan in sutch an psu, it could certainely be a hot experiment. Until now, i am satisfied with my Amacrox Free Earth AX500w unit, which shares the same desing like the Epsilon series. I have put some rubber slices on the fan to extinguish the noise from the fan motor, but it is not absolut silent yet. May be i will buy one of those $40 absolut silence fans, just to see what level of silence i could archive with that kind of cooling aproach.

Those JPtur caps we are used to find in Enermx PSU`s arent too bad too, even if they arent near tho the capxons IMHO.
I havd some of them pulled from an Enermax PSU from 2000, and the capacitance and shape where in near perfect condition. Of course, i haven`t cheked the esr.

The next thing, that in psu`s the ESR isn`t that important like in vrm units. In psu`s high temp and durability are far more important. And therefore i would alway take the biggest possible cap which could be soldered in.
Any respekted manufakture is stating a mutch higher expexted live for the bigger( i mean size, not capazitance) caps.
And fore shure, i am not comfortable with water based elektrolytic caps in PSU`s. If possbile i wouldn`t use them, even if i have done some replacements with Rubycon MCZ.

To be honnest, i share your opinion that it would be nice to have some psu brands with absolut the best possible cap in there. May be it would be even nice, if onemanufakturer would build an psu with a significant switching frequency and independent transformers and regulators for 5 and 12v. But this i suppose won`t be there for the several next years. The simple answer to this question is, why anyone should do it better, if he can sell the actuasl stuff fore the same money.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

tiresias - interesting. Very. But where one can buy such PSU? I never saw Delta in anything except loud hi-CFM fans...

I got my Deltas from Directron a few years ago. They were pulls from Acer computers and seemed to be new (no dust inside). Rated 300W, 245W of that the +3.3V & +5.0V power rating. Otherwise Delta PSUs are rare in the U.S., and PriceWatch gives only two hits, one for a $33 300W, another for a $159 480W.

I hate Delta CPU fans because every one of mine has vibrated enough to buzz annoyingly, including all those included with AMD retail boxed CPUs. AMD sometimes uses different fans on their heatsinks. For example, my Athlon XP1800+ had a Coolermaster heatsink with Delta fan, and the Coolermaster fan for this heatsink is a lot quieter and doesn't vibrate at all. I once got five Socket 7 AMD CPUs with Delta fans that not only vibrated but squealed badly because Delta forgot to oil the sleeve bearing.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

Trodas; Ah, ok, I was just going by memory, took that PSU apart like 3 months ago, I could not see the text on all caps either since it was so full of cables... I just assumed they where all rated the same since they seemed to have the same physical size

And about that resistor; can't help you there, because it is a friends PSU so I don't have any access to it...

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

The next thing, that in psu`s the ESR isn`t that important like in vrm units. In psu`s high temp and durability are far more important.

I worked in P/S design and mfg. for some 25 years, and I assure you that the statement I highlighted is quite incorrect. Boschert, now part of Artesyn, "ate" thousands of Elna low-ESR caps when Elna "lost the formula" but wouldn't take responsibility for it; the high ESR parts caused a rash of failures. Switching P/S companies have been driving cap companies to reduce cap impedance longer than I've worked with P/Ss, which have improved considerably since UCC's RX and RZ series and Nichicon's PA series. It should also be pointed out that VRMs are themselves DC-DC switching power supplies.

[linuxguru]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

... the high ESR parts caused a rash of failures..... It should also be pointed out that VRMs are themselves DC-DC switching power supplies.

Quite correct - I believe the context is more about non-aqueous low-ESR vs. aqueous Ultra-low-ESR. For a PSU, I'll take a proven low-ESR non-aqueous series like a Nichicon PW with its 5000+ hour endurance, over an aqueous ultra-low-ESR series like a Nichicon HZ. I can always work around the ESR limitation by circuit design - e.g. multiple caps in parallel, etc. This preference may change after the aqueous stuff has been in the field for 10+ years and the actual failure rates/modes in PSU applications become clear.

[yanz]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

i think we should have a list of non aqueous LESR caps for PSu recapping capacitor recommendation.

[linuxguru]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

In approximately decreasing order of merit:

Nichicon - PX, PW, PJ, PM, PS
Panasonic - FM, FK, FC
Chemicon - LXZ, LXY, LXV, LXA

Overall, depending on availability, the Nichicon PW is a very cost-effective solution.

[gg1978]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

I got my Deltas from Directron a few years ago. They were pulls from Acer computers and seemed to be new (no dust inside). Rated 300W, 245W of that the +3.3V & +5.0V power rating. Otherwise Delta PSUs are rare in the U.S., and PriceWatch gives only two hits, one for a $33 300W, another for a $159 480W.

I hate Delta CPU fans because every one of mine has vibrated enough to buzz annoyingly, including all those included with AMD retail boxed CPUs. AMD sometimes uses different fans on their heatsinks. For example, my Athlon XP1800+ had a Coolermaster heatsink with Delta fan, and the Coolermaster fan for this heatsink is a lot quieter and doesn't vibrate at all. I once got five Socket 7 AMD CPUs with Delta fans that not only vibrated but squealed badly because Delta forgot to oil the sleeve bearing.

I bought a pair of these back when they were on sale at Directron too.. I think they're about the best PSU you can buy.. I've got one of them in my HTPC.. Alas that they aren't ATX12V compliant..

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

lg,

I believe Panasonic's FM series has an aqueous electrolyte. Since there may yet be older parts in the distie pipeline, PL and PR are the non-lead-free precursors versions of the PM and PS series. AFAIK, all of Rubycon's low-Z series use aqueous electrolytes, except (I think) for the YXA series, which IIRC is denoted for GP use.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Antec 480W "NEO" PSU with Fuhjyyu caps

I worked in P/S design and mfg. for some 25 years, and I assure you that the statement I highlighted is quite incorrect.

Shure ESR mathers in SMPS, but it is more a problem of economic 's than a technicall question.And i don`t have spoken about vrm and other smps. I only refered to ATx psu`S.
It is clearly, that if the desing of the circuit depends on the absolute lowest esr, there are no choice for ultra low esr caps (if the desing prohibits the use of more caps). But in any way, for usuall computer grade psu`s any non aqueouse low esr cap will IMHO be sufficient and probably better suited than on of those 2000h ultra lowest esr caps. Given the fact, that no branded pc psu has those ultra low esr caps build in, i think i can`t be that wrong.
For seriouse desing, an engineer can always increase the component count, wich will for shure last longer than any super duber highly (long therm) untestet and unproofed absolut lowest esr cap.

But for shure, to build some consumer throw away crap and to cut cost, there is always an market for not that safe and long lasting caps.