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Old 12-25-2005, 04:30 AM   #1
Per Hansson
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Default Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

I bought this PSU on Seasonics promise, right on the box itself "Long-lived Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor" Now after having this PSU a month or two my curiosity took over and I had to open it up and see what was inside... To my dismay Seasonic have put OST caps in there. On atleast Silent PC Review I've read that Seasonic is using Japanese caps in the new S12 PSU's. If this was their mistake or if actually Seasonic originally said this I do not know (FYI OST is hosed in Taiwan)
Quote:

4th Floor, No. 159, Section 2,
Datung Road, Shijr City, Taipei
Hsien, Taiwan, R.O.C. 221
Quote:
Originally posted at Silent PC Review of SS12430W PSU
Long-lived Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor - Apparently, higher quality Japanese aluminum electrolytic capacitors are now used for greater reliability and stable performance. More common China-made capacitors must have been used before, as is typical of most PSUs. There have been major incidents of electronics, including motherboards, affected by leaking capacitors sourced from China starting from ~2 years ago.
Cap markings are as follows:
Code:
KLS - 0504 - 105C - 2200uF - 16v
RLP - 0501 - 105C - 2200uF - 10v
RLS - 0501 - 105C -  220uF - 50v
The Primary capacitor has these markings (unknown manufacturer):
Code:
4ZA4 - 400vdc - HP3 - 85C - 270uF





Attached Images
File Type: jpg Caps1.jpg (132.4 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg Caps2.jpg (123.6 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg Caps3.jpg (113.5 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg Coils.jpg (122.6 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg Fan.jpg (121.9 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg Top.jpg (118.1 KB, 84 views)

Last edited by Per Hansson; 05-11-2014 at 04:16 AM.. Reason: Offsite images uploaded due to problems with host
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Old 12-25-2005, 06:14 AM   #2
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

thats quite sad, i hate being dissapointed like that. you appear to have the new model because it has the ADDA fan. seasonic says "higher quality aluminum electrolytic capacitors" whilst silentpc says "apparently, higher quality Japanese aluminum electrolytic capacitors are now used"

ask on silentpc forums where they got that info from, then you might have something to go on.

nice pics btw
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Last edited by willawake; 12-25-2005 at 06:19 AM..
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Old 12-25-2005, 07:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by willawake
thats quite sad, i hate being dissapointed like that. you appear to have the new model because it has the ADDA fan. seasonic says "higher quality aluminum electrolytic capacitors" whilst silentpc says "apparently, higher quality Japanese aluminum electrolytic capacitors are now used"

ask on silentpc forums where they got that info from, then you might have something to go on.

nice pics btw
Question asked on SPCR now... http://forums.silentpcreview.com/vie...=232083#232083
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Old 12-25-2005, 09:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

This is reminding me my Aopen AK79G-Max supposedly had high quality Japanese caps as a selling feature. I can't make out who makes all of them, but the big ones around the CPU regulators are Lelon

The board has been running almost 24/7 since early 2003, and no caps on it are swelling, but had I an ESR meter I'm sure I would find one or two of them not so good anymore. The board doesn't overclock like it used to.
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Old 12-26-2005, 02:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Seasonic replied to my e-mail. Here it is, e-mail addresses removed.

Quote:
Dear Sir

Seasonic has led the high quality bulk capacitors in since the Super series even at
the moment that most PSUs still use a China-made capacitor. In fact, for the main
capacitor, we always use a well-noted Hitachi bulk capacitor. To promote this
advantage, we stated the "Long-lived aluminum electrolytic capacitors" in the
subsequent S12 series. That means more and more reliable caps were used and made our
S12 series among those power supplies that used most high quality caps in the world.

Due to the fact of possible shortages attributed by limited suppliers, we therefore
be very conservative to our statement and never intend to mislead end users.
Therefore we never express the usage of high capacitors as "100% Japan Made
Capacitors".
In addition, when more and more Japanese caps were used gradually, there is no
additional charge on the selling price.
The unit you got maybe a early product. However, Seasonic's 3-year warranty will
never be discounted.

Thanks for your understanding.

Best Regards,
Support Team
Sea Sonic Electronics Co., Ltd.
There was also a couple interesting replies to the thread at SPCR, there is a newer version than my S12, with a PCIe video card connector now sold. And also pictures of a S12 with another brand of capacitors, right in line with the e-mail I got from Seasonic...

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/vie...=232083#232171

Last edited by Per Hansson; 12-26-2005 at 02:48 AM..
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Old 12-26-2005, 03:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

some of the responses on SPCR were quite typical of other forums when the topic of capacitors is brought up.

that was a good investigation though, congratulations.



here is the "later?" model with the chemicons. it is interesting that they talk about possible shortages of Jap caps. that topic has come up before.

did you void your warranty by opening the unit or was there no sticker?
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File Type: jpg seasonic.jpg (133.0 KB, 734 views)
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Old 12-26-2005, 03:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by willawake
did you void your warranty by opening the unit or was there no sticker?
I vioded the warranty, one of the case screws was under a "warranty void if removed" sticker...

Image borrowed from Bigbruin.com
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File Type: jpg external_warranty.jpg (24.8 KB, 69 views)

Last edited by Per Hansson; 05-11-2014 at 04:31 AM.. Reason: offsite pic upload
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Old 12-27-2005, 10:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Hansson
The Primary capacitor has these markings (unknown manufacturer):
Code:
4ZA4 - 400vdc - HP3 - 85C - 270uF
The manufacturer of this capacitor is Hitachi, it's datasheet is on this site (scroll down to "HP3") thanks to japlytic for showing me the way

And if you reread the e-mail I got from Seasonic (it's in my third post in this thread) you understand what they are talking about, it's not a coincidence that they write "Long-lived Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor" that I first thought was only poor English, i.e. one Capacitor instead of several Capacitors because they are only referring to the "bulk" Hitachi Primary side Capacitor!!!

Last edited by Per Hansson; 12-27-2005 at 10:06 AM..
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Old 01-02-2006, 09:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Can someone more knowledgeable than me please comment on the very small rating of the Primary bulk cap, only 270uF, and 220uF in the 350w Seasonic?

Is it due to the active PFC or something? I mean I've seen Primary caps in L&C powersupplies with almost twice the farad rating!!!
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Old 01-17-2006, 12:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Just bought my second Seasonic S12 430w PSU... To my disappointment this was also a revision A1 model, so no PCIe GFX connector... however the caps are a different matter:


Every single cap is made by the Nippon Chemi-con group, except one small Rubycon cap
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KZECaps.jpg (130.9 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg Rubycon.jpg (129.1 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Top.jpg (115.9 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by Per Hansson; 05-11-2014 at 04:33 AM.. Reason: Offsite images uploaded due to problems with host
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

What's interesting is I was looking at a review of a Seasonic made Antec Neo HE unit, and found something interesting in the innards shots:

http://www.overclockersonline.com/in...num=348&pnum=3

This picture in particular:
http://www.overclockersonline.com/im...large/pc15.jpg

Teapo
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Old 01-17-2006, 11:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

The odd thing is that the primary caps rarely fail, in any event. The ripple currents are lower, at much higher voltage, on the primary side - just about any general 85c capacitor of the rated capacitance and voltage will work OK. So why did Seasonic choose to use Hitachi on the primary side first and only later go with Chemi-cons on the secondary? Methinks it was a marketing exercise.
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Old 01-18-2006, 06:19 AM   #13
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Those Nippons in the above picture almost look fake... the Nippons I've run across always say "Nippon" inside the little graphic thing. Even the small ones... sure, it's hard to read, but I've never seen it absent. Guess I could be wrong!
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Old 01-18-2006, 06:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Quote:
the Nippons I've run across always say "Nippon" inside the little graphic thing.
i have never seen that. dont forget they have several companies.
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Old 01-18-2006, 07:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

These are the guys I was thinking of- http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1205

But, I've seen the smaller electrolytics with just "Nippon" in the symbol...
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Old 01-18-2006, 09:15 AM   #16
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by dood
Those Nippons in the above picture almost look fake... the Nippons I've run across always say "Nippon" inside the little graphic thing. Even the small ones... sure, it's hard to read, but I've never seen it absent. Guess I could be wrong!
Nahh, I don't think they are fake... I've only seen the ones that looks like the one I posted... Except in my 30 year old amplifier, there it is printed out "Nippon Chemicon" on the caps... Of course they are still fine


Same pic in it's unresized format

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxguru
The odd thing is that the primary caps rarely fail, in any event. The ripple currents are lower, at much higher voltage, on the primary side - just about any general 85c capacitor of the rated capacitance and voltage will work OK. So why did Seasonic choose to use Hitachi on the primary side first and only later go with Chemi-cons on the secondary? Methinks it was a marketing exercise.
Yes it was, the guy at Seasonic even said this in the e-mail I posted "In fact, for the main capacitor, we always use a well-noted Hitachi bulk capacitor. To promote this advantage, we stated the "Long-lived aluminum electrolytic capacitors" in the subsequent S12 series."
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KZE_Big_Caps.jpg (57.1 KB, 77 views)

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Old 01-22-2006, 03:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by dood
Those Nippons in the above picture almost look fake... the Nippons I've run across always say "Nippon" inside the little graphic thing. Even the small ones... sure, it's hard to read, but I've never seen it absent. Guess I could be wrong!
The larger units would have Nippon Chemi-Con in the badge.

I don't understand why, but some manufacturers use cheaper capacitors when they have a shortage of Japanese units...
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Old 01-22-2006, 05:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Hansson
And if you reread the e-mail I got from Seasonic (it's in my third post in this thread) you understand what they are talking about, it's not a coincidence that they write "Long-lived Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor" that I first thought was only poor English, i.e. one Capacitor instead of several Capacitors because they are only referring to the "bulk" Hitachi Primary side Capacitor!!!
Looks like it is just poor English... here is a press release introducing that line of power supplies:

http://www.seasonic.com/new/twevent20050510.htm

It says "Moreover, the new S12 employs an improved double ball bearing 120mm cooling fan and higher quality aluminum electrolytic capacitors for even greater reliability and stable performance."
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Old 01-23-2006, 03:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

I just called Seasonic, and the guy I spoke to said that all of the capacitors they use are made in Japan. I tried to ask him about how people had opened up some of the S12s and found caps from known bad manufacturers, but I don't think he understood that question. He reiterated that they only use Japanese capacitors in their power supplies now.

Now let me make sure I've got this straight... none of the bad cap manufacturers are Japanese, right?
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: Seasonic S12 430W Internal Pictures

Of the 2 Seasonic PSU's I've opened, the 380 HB F3SLR S12 unit has all jap caps. The 300 AGX F3BLR does not. The 300 and 330W units are NOT advertised as *New high reliability capacitor version* so most likely all 380W and up S12 series have good caps but that's probably dependent upon a vendor having unloaded old inventory .

Last edited by Mustang; 01-23-2006 at 06:19 PM..
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