The Big Fat ESR Table

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

If it is one cap-related thing bothering me atm, it's the lack of a big table that you can go look in and find the nominal ESR of any cap you might stumble upon. So let's make one.

I'll handle Fuhjyyu, Jamicon and some other obscure companies, maybe someone else can do reputable brands like Nichicon, Panasonic or Chemi-Con. Sure, the good companies have good datasheets as well, but i'd still like a table. So, who's in?

[stj]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

do you have any idea how big that will get!

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

I get an idea of the size even though i've just barely started it. I started with a crap series from Fuhjyyu that i've never seen before just to get the hang of it, but now i'm just going to start documenting all the caps i have and ignore the others. If everyone adds in the series of caps that they have seen, this will become a great resource.

There's also goodies such as an ESR calculator from tan delta and frequency, and i'll be making a ripple current calculator based on voltage, ESR and max temperature.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

Anyone willing to contribute please post here and they will receive the table to add to it.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

I looked at doing such a project a few years ago.

There are over a thousand capacitor companies [current and gone] and any one of them could have popped out a low ESR series cap at one time or another.

There are also quite a number that do make low ESR caps but that don't publish any data sheets.

Such a database would certainly be useful but it will never be complete [or finished].
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[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

There are also quite a number that do make low ESR caps but that don't publish any data sheets.

Well if everyone measures the caps they come across, that won't matter.

Such a database would certainly be useful but it will never be complete [or finished].

I agree we aren't going to finish it ourselves but we gotta START somewhere don't you think? If no one wants it i'll simply keep it for personal reference. Will save me from looking for the same datasheets over and over again.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

Can't go by measurements except on new caps because the values change as they age.
Even unused old stock caps drift off their nominal values.
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I 'started somewhere' on that 3 or 4 years ago but I consider what I came up with as copyrighted material [because it is] which is why I don't post it here.
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[kc8adu]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

we have rough series equivilants but tracking every oddball maker and series would be insane.some of us have the experience to look at a unit and pick a brand/series even if the caps were already removed.
a link to show what you are up against.
http://capacitor.web.fc2.com/

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

I know that site but it tells me nothing about the actual parameters of the caps.

Can't go by measurements except on new caps because the values change as they age.

Boards don't run with datasheet values, they run with REAL caps with their slew of REAL problems. Don't see why REAL measurements would be a problem. Well, i'll still be testing my caps and using the data for my own reference.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

Because, as I said before, you are measuring used and degraded parts.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

Because, as I said before, you are measuring used and degraded parts.

Everything runs on "used and degraded parts" as soon as they leave the factory. Therefore this is a moot point.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

I understand what you would like to do [faster reference] but that isn't the way to go about it.

- Caps in different can sizes don't give a valid comparison between their respective -series- even if the uF is the same. So, you would not only have to have a cap from every series you would need caps in the exact same can size from every series -and- you'd need at least one 8mm and one 10mm example [exact same can size one-each in both diameters] from every series because 8mm & 10mm specs don't follow each other locked-step when comparing same to another series.

You are far better off creating a data sheet library on your local PC as a reference tool.

- A secondary reason for that is if brand goes away or a series becomes obsolete it's data sheets usually go away too.
For example Rubycon has been trying to phase out MBZ for a couple of years and in the 2011 catalog MBZ isn't even mentioned.
You have to go here to find the MBZ data sheet now.
[Note the -old- in the URL]


Interestingly MBZ and MCZ were combined into 1 data sheet in the 2010 catalog.
[Which was really just the MCZ data sheet with both MBZ and MCZ written up top.]
That data sheet went *poof* and MCZ is not included in their 2011 product list.
I can't find a -current- link to the MCZ data sheet at Rubycon at all.
- Which suggests they may be dropping MCZ soon as well.

LOT of things going on in the cap industry.
- Sanyo sold their lytics interests/production to the subsidiary that was actually making them which is now an independent company. [Suncon.]
- Fujitsu sold their FPCAP interests/production to Nichicon.
- LTEC opened a plant in the USA. [WTF is up with that? - I think it was LTEC, one of the crap brands anyway..]
Probably 100's of similar things going on in the crap cap brands that one never hears about...

Right now your time would be better spent building a reference library by being a mad-man data sheet collector.
- Get them while they are still there!
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

Everything runs on "used and degraded parts" as soon as they leave the factory. Therefore this is a moot point.

No, it's not a moot point.

Only a clueless wonder would say that and actually believe it and I don't think you are clueless.

Caps that just left the factory are going to be within their advertised specs.

You will have NO IDEA -NONE- if used caps or caps past their shelf life are even close to their advertised specs -> unless you have the data sheet to check you readings against.

Your choices are:
- generate random data with no validation and no level of confidence.
- use data sheets.

Your chart will mean NOTHING without data sheet validation.

Since you have to have data sheets for validation anyway why don't you make the damned chart from data sheets in the first place?

Trust me, there are enough data sheets available [I have over 1000 on file now] to make just that a HUGE job.
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[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: The Big Fat ESR Table

Since you have to have data sheets for validation anyway why don't you make the damned chart from data sheets in the first place?

Um, that's what i've been doing. Duh! But when i can't find datasheets, i have to improvise.