Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

[Deft]

I have an Antec Smart Power 450w I need to recap. It has a bunch of bloated FU caps (no surprise to any of you I'm sure).

I've identified the main caps as:
2x 1000uf/10v 8mm/20mm
1x 3300uf/16v 10mm/35mm
1x 1000uf/10v 10mm/20mm
1x 2200uf/10v 10mm/25mm
2x 4700uf/6.3v 10mm/30mm

I could be wrong on some of the heights though. It was hard to measure them while still on the board.

I was wondering if anyone knows what series of caps is best for replacing these? I tried searching digikey for the first time and I'm not getting any results for some of the sizes I have so either I have the size wrong or I'm just not searching right or maybe it doesn't matter?

[shovenose]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

yeah i have at least ten antec psus all smartpoers and truepowers. the fujyyu caps suck, the power supplies are extremely good otherwise. (the oem is cwt)...
if you need to, go down a tiny bit in uf to get caps that fit where the tall+skinny unusually chaped fukyuu caps went...
ps: how are yu going to get under those damn heatsinks?

thats why im putting off recapping them!

[Deft]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

Even though it's a little cramped in there I think I can manage without taking the heat sinks out. My only other issue is I need to know where the white and black power wires connect to the board. I forgot to write it down when I desoldered them.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

I would replace the caps with:

2x1000uF 10V 8mm/10mm @ 5vsb
2x3300uF 10V/6.3V 10mm @ 3.3V
2x3300uF 10V/6.3V 10mm @ 5V
2x3300uF 16V 12.5mm @12V

That combination has been tested many times in this forum and always works.

The 12.5mm caps can be slightly lifted of the pcb.

You have to find the output every cap is connected to.

[shovenose]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

@deft- if you succeed in doing the recap w/out removing heatsinks, i will do all mine
-of course i have to work on the boards when theyre still sort of in the case, because i dont want to desolder any of the wires to the ac plug and such.

ps: some of the antec truepowers have a molex plug on the outside next to the ac in plug. whats thst for?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

I haven't seen an SP-450 but have seen SP-450P and a number of other SP, TP, TP2 models at various watts.

You didn't put the series of original.
The Fuhkyou TM are low ESR
The TN are not - but should have been. [Use FC or PW or better for those.]
.
You list seems to be short like 5 or 10+ caps.
I do 100% recap on the old Antecs [not counting the beer cans up front.] and that's probably the best plan as the small caps don't cost much.
If you don't want to do all then at least do all Fuhjyyu & Koshin except the 4&5mm 50v
-
The old Antecs [depending on model] typically have between 1 and 3 - 6.3mm 47uF at [25v, 35v, or 50v].
Those have a 'real job' and should be replaced.
Usually they are Fuhjyyu but sometimes Koshin or Teapo.
I use 47uF 50v 6.3mm PW or FC for all of them.
[It's a common PSU cap so if you do PSUs often order extras and get the 50v so it will work in any PSU you come across.]

For this group:
1x 3300uf/16v 10mm/35mm
1x 2200uf/10v 10mm/25mm
2x 4700uf/6.3v 10mm/30mm
-
I would use Samxon RS 3300uF 10mm from BCN for all of those.
[16v or 10v as appropriate.]
The RS 3300uF 10mm are a custom ordered size for PSUs and go out of stock occasionally often so grab a few extra when TC has some.
.

[Deft]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

I would replace the caps with:

2x1000uF 10V 8mm/10mm @ 5vsb
2x3300uF 10V/6.3V 10mm @ 3.3V
2x3300uF 10V/6.3V 10mm @ 5V
2x3300uF 16V 12.5mm @12V

That combination has been tested many times in this forum and always works.

The 12.5mm caps can be slightly lifted of the pcb.

You have to find the output every cap is connected to.

There's two things I don't understand about what you said; first, I only listed 7 caps but you posted 8, I don't see any place for 2 big caps like that on the 12v line. There are some smaller caps in that area but I have to pull out the larger caps first to see what they are.

Second, why am I going up/down in uF for the 5v and 3.3v? Having never recapped a PSU before (and not having any background in electronics repair) it seems strange to me. I would like to understand why/when it's ok to change the uF for when I do this again in the future. Thanks for your help so far.

[Deft]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

You didn't put the series of original.
The Fuhkyou TM are low ESR
The TN are not - but should have been. [Use FC or PW or better for those.]
.
You list seems to be short like 5 or 10+ caps.
I do 100% recap on the old Antecs [not counting the beer cans up front.] and that's probably the best plan as the small caps don't cost much.
If you don't want to do all then at least do all Fuhjyyu & Koshin except the 4&5mm 50v
..

Thanks for the advice PCBONEZ.. It appears to me that every single cap in this PSU was Fuhjyyu so I'm going to pull out all of them aside from the 200v ones now and I'll let you know what I end what series/sizes I end up with.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

He pulled his list from a similar model, not the exact one you have.
The output filter section across the SP models is usually the same so he figured your is too.

Your list is too short. - I think you missed some.
Some of those buggers hide in there real well.
You won't see them all until you get the PCB out of the sheet metal.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

Make sure you make a map of cap location and polarity before you start pulling caps.
For PSU PCBs I usually take a snap shot, resize it, print it life-size, and write right on it.
.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

There's two things I don't understand about what you said; first, I only listed 7 caps but you posted 8, I don't see any place for 2 big caps like that on the 12v line. There are some smaller caps in that area but I have to pull out the larger caps first to see what they are.

Second, why am I going up/down in uF for the 5v and 3.3v? Having never recapped a PSU before (and not having any background in electronics repair) it seems strange to me. I would like to understand why/when it's ok to change the uF for when I do this again in the future. Thanks for your help so far.

If it uses only 1 cap for the 12V line then it should be an older design.

The antec SPs and TPs I have seen use the number of caps I posted.


About the second, this is because you will not find 4700uF good caps to fit in those psus. There are no respectable capacitor makers that make 4700uF 10mm caps. But this is not a problem, because the original 4700uF caps that psu had, have been found to be completely inconsistent in real capacity (sometimes 3100uF brand new), so you can safely substitute with 3300uF.

About the other uF changes, I supposed that if the caps are 10mm diameter, you can replace them all with 3300uF ones and that would be generally good for the psu, and compensate for the 4700-->3300 replacement.

And of course what PCBONEZ said.

It really helps if you find how many and what caps are connected at 3.3V, 5V and 12V lines.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

I would like to understand why/when it's ok to change the uF for when I do this again in the future. Thanks for your help so far.

Missed that part. - goodpsusearch got it but I'll confirm.
-
Generally lowering uF is a bad idea but 10mm over 2200uF don't exist in good Japanese brands and are common in crap brand originals in PSUs.
.
The Samxon RS are not Jap but the ones I mentioned are custom made to address that problem and they [and using all 3300uF in place of the Fuhjyyu 2200-4700uF] are a well tested mod.
[Some people even use 3300uF MBZ but that reduces ESR to something like 30% of the original value. They say it works but I'm not comfortable with that big of an ESR change.]
.
And as goodpsusearch mentioned Fuhjyyu 4700uF from new unused PSUs have been measured as low as 3100uF.
- If you look in the TN data sheet you will find 4700uF don't exist in that can size. Fuhjyyu obviously takes custom orders and personally I think sometimes instead of making a short run of custom caps they make custom sleeves and put them on some cap they are making that is 'close enough' in their mind.
.
In the case of 2200uF -> 3300uF, that is basically an upgrade.
.
What you DON'T want to do is go to a higher ESR.
.

[Deft]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

Thanks for the tips guys. I only have a few caps left to pull and they're mostly all between the two heat sinks which makes them hard to get at.

Here's what I've got so far:
Model: SP-450 / PCB: CWT KMG-SMT Rev: A
EC5 - ?? (only small cap on the input side)
EC6/7/8/9??? (guessing these are the numbers for the caps in the middle between the HS)
EC10 / EC11 - 1000uF/10v TNR (5vsb)
EC12 - 47uF/50V
EC13 - 10uF/50V?? (not pulled yet)
EC14/15/16/17 - 1uF/50V TN
EC18 - 220uF/16V TN
EC19 - 3300uF/16V TMR
EC20 - 330uF/16V TNR
EC21 - 1000uF/10V TMR
EC22 - 2200/10V TMR
EC24/25 - 4700uF/6.3V TMR (3.3v)
EC26 - 10uF/50v TNR
EC27 - 0.1uF/50V TN
All caps have negative lead on the shaded part of the silkscreen






I'll pull out the remaining caps tomorrow if I have time. I didn't expect to recap this whole thing at first but it seems like a good idea and not really a whole lot more work. The caps in this PSU came out so much easier than with the MOBO i worked on. Is it possible that they used lead based solder in it? I didn't see a RoHS stamp on it anywhere.

[Quasar]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

Single-sided board and no via's. Mobo's are double-sided with via's connecting the trace from one side to the other and most are multi-layered (traces inside the board). Hence the suck the heat right out of your iron.

Also, your attachments didn't work. You have to post the attachments then go back and link them if you want the pics in the post. Not necessary.

Q

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

The caps in this PSU came out so much easier than with the MOBO i worked on. Is it possible that they used lead based solder in it? I didn't see a RoHS stamp on it anywhere.

Actually it's for two reasons.
- It's a single layer board so unlike motherboards there isn't a bunch of copper plating between layers to steal the heat away from the joint.
- They tend to have larger diameter holes.

About RoHS I dunno.
If there is no mark then it probably isn't.
.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

Too old to be ROHS. (~2003-2004)

[Deft]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

I've been checking out digikey and I've got a shopping list started at home (at work atm) and so far I think I have a handle on what I'm doing (Gonna use a mix of PW's/FM's or maybe RS').

I just have one question before I finalize my shopping cart. For the replacement 0.1uF/50v cap I need, the much cheaper, higher grade TS series is not in stock so my only options are between caps rated for 1000 hours@105C or 2000@85C are either of these ok to use? if so, which one is better?

[Quasar]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

Stay with the same grade of cap on the output filters. Don't use a PW on the input to the filter and an FM on the output. Or the other way around, either.

Filters are typically "pi" filters and consist of an input cap, a coil on a straight rod core or a toroid (round), then an output cap. Sometimes there is more than one on the output and they'll be in parallel to each other. Their capacitance will be "additive", so 2 - 2200uF caps in parallel will have an effective capacitance of 4400uF.

Any "decent" 105 degree cap will do for all the little ones, if you're so inclined. There is no real reason to replace the 1uF or lower caps. Most are there to keep noise/transients off the traces that feed their nearby IC's. They are under no stress and will be good until you can't use these PSU's anymore.

Hour ratings are useless in these as you'll never use the caps in that way. It's for testing only. PCBONEZ did a very good post or two about those ratings not to long ago and it clears the air about what it really -doesn't- mean. Basically, get the 105 degree cap and move along.

Q

[Quasar]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

Had to run off, so I couldn't elaborate more on the filter and cap bit.

Using different ESR caps on the filter in/out can cause an increase in ripple on the output. Staying with either PW/PW or FM/FM (or any other comparable cap grade in pairs) is the way to do these filters. I've done these with FM, PW, FC, HZ, HE, PM, KY, and LXY on all the outputs and never had any problems. Loaded ripple was <30mV.

FM's can be cheaper and now I noticed Mouser is starting to stock them. Some even less expensive than Digikey.

The "problem" with FM's is that the higher values are in 12.5mm cans, so it's a tough fit. Creative movement of wires and surrounding components and in most cases you can make them fit.

Q

[Deft]

Re: Replacement caps for Antec SP-450?

Thank you very much for your response Quasar.

I didn't originally intend on changing out the smaller 50v caps but somehow PCBONEZ managed to persuade me to fully recap it and I thought it was a good idea (but at the time I didn't realize I couldn't get 50v caps from TC). So now that I'm at the point where I've pulled out 90% of the caps already, I might as well follow through with what I started. Due to this choice of recapping everything, I want to get every cap from the same source (digikey most likely), hence my choice in FMs for the outputs.

I remember seeing a thread somewhere grouping similar grade caps together.. I'm see if I can find it now so I can try to figure something out.

At this point, I don't really care how long it takes me to get this job done, I just want to understand what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. That way, I won't be asking so many questions next time and maybe I'll even be able to answer someone else's questions someday