Arcade games and bad caps...

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Maxxarcade
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Jul 2006
    • 973

    #1

    Arcade games and bad caps...

    I work in the amusement industry as a coin-op repair tech. I wanted to give some of my stories on bad caps. The situation got much worse than just one or two machines. I stumbled across Badcaps.net and now I know I'm not alone. I hope this never happens again. We all need to be able to depend on our computers and other equipment.

    1. Merit Megatouch Radion and EVO games with the ECS P6IWP-Fe motherboards. Failed after 2 years or so. Also these boards get quite warm in the poorly ventilated cabinets.

    2. Merit Megatouch Maxx games with the Unicorn Computer ENDAT-5701 motherboards. These are coming in left and right with bad caps after a couple years of operation. I've probably recapped about 40 of them now. Caps were marked "GL" and were green with a gold stripe.

    3. Star Wars Episode 1, Pinball 2000 pinball game. Bad caps on the motherboard was making it unstable. Works like new after recap. AT-style power supply also had bad caps. I was amazed the board survived and is working so well now.

    4. "Pump It Up" dance game. Poor stability was making this one troublesome for us. I finally took the boards out of the cage and found bad caps. Works like a charm now.

    5. Enhance brand power supplies used in Merit Megatouch games. The small form factor ATX power supplies that are rated at 110 watts. Every single cap goes bad in these, including the small ones on the control card. Especially the earlier ones with the cheap fans that always froze up.

    I probably could have filled a small garbage can with all the bad caps I've had around here. And this goes to show it's not limited to a couple boards or manufacturers.
  • linuxguru
    Badcaps Legend
    • Apr 2005
    • 1564

    #2
    Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

    Enhance is a good PSU brand, although they use Jamicon, Capxon and so on. The cap failures are probably a consequence of over-heating due to fan failure.

    Comment

    • willawake
      Super Modulator
      • Nov 2003
      • 8457
      • Greece

      #3
      Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

      can you get some pics of badcaps on arcade boards, i dont think we have seen them here before.
      capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

      Comment

      • kc8adu
        Super Moderator
        • Nov 2003
        • 8832
        • U.S.A!

        #4
        Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

        i see a lot of the same.i have a huge boxfull of psu from igt slots to recap.
        i recap a ton of mobo's for a gambling equipment dealer too.
        remember most of these machines are run 24/7/365 in nasty places.smoke,spilled drinks,heat buildup,ect.
        stupid to spec lowest bidder mobo's for these machines.
        now i expect to totally recap a classic like my cocktail table pacman.i replaced every lytic in it and the very weak crt.
        like a new one now.

        Comment

        • Maxxarcade
          Badcaps Veteran
          • Jul 2006
          • 973

          #5
          Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

          Of course there are always the common cap failures in these games from the rough conditions, but all the ones I was referring to were games based on PC hardware that had the defective caps on the motherboards due to the bad electrolyte formula.

          And you are correct, Enhance is normally a good power supply. We just had a really big batch of them that had defective caps. Later they started using different caps, and from that point all failures were heat related.

          If you want to know what some long lifetime for a cap is, we have had quite a few of the original video monitors for the games that have run for over 20 years basically 24x7 on the original factory caps. Of course the performance was better with fresh caps, but they were still going. I've seen monitors with the Pac-Man maze burned black into the CRT that still otherwise had a good picture.

          Comment

          • kc8adu
            Super Moderator
            • Nov 2003
            • 8832
            • U.S.A!

            #6
            Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

            Originally posted by Maxxarcade
            Of course there are always the common cap failures in these games from the rough conditions, but all the ones I was referring to were games based on PC hardware that had the defective caps on the motherboards due to the bad electrolyte formula.

            And you are correct, Enhance is normally a good power supply. We just had a really big batch of them that had defective caps. Later they started using different caps, and from that point all failures were heat related.

            If you want to know what some long lifetime for a cap is, we have had quite a few of the original video monitors for the games that have run for over 20 years basically 24x7 on the original factory caps. Of course the performance was better with fresh caps, but they were still going. I've seen monitors with the Pac-Man maze burned black into the CRT that still otherwise had a good picture.
            have a wg from a pacman on the bench now.amazing thing is the zenith tube has real bad burn in but still tests and looks new.
            most of these tubes went gassy or shorted in the first 2 years.
            a few caps and good as new.i still buy teknika tv sets built by wg to mine for parts.
            most still work fine unless they have the zenith tube.

            Comment

            • Maxxarcade
              Badcaps Veteran
              • Jul 2006
              • 973

              #7
              Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

              I agree, Zenith tubes are troublesome. Especially the 25-27" ones made in the early to mid 90's that were used in the Wells Gardner monitors. The guns are weaker than anything I've ever seen.

              Probably the most reliable ones are the Wells 4900's and Electrohome G07's with the RCA tubes. We have a few games here that have the most horrible burn and are still running.

              Also the Wells 4900 is one of the few monitors I have never changed a flyback on.

              Comment

              • Maxxarcade
                Badcaps Veteran
                • Jul 2006
                • 973

                #8
                Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                Here's a recapped Megatouch board:
                Attached Files

                Comment

                • Maxxarcade
                  Badcaps Veteran
                  • Jul 2006
                  • 973

                  #9
                  Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                  Here's the Star Wars pinball 2000 board with bad caps. Hard to see in the picture though.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                  • Maxxarcade
                    Badcaps Veteran
                    • Jul 2006
                    • 973

                    #10
                    Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                    Here's a pic of a really toasted tube that came out of a game with around 175,000 or so hours on it. The monitor had all the original caps on it and it finally started to die out after 20+ years of continuous operation in a bar.

                    The best part is, the tube still had a good picture aside from the burn. RCA made good tubes back then. I recapped the board and replaced the tube with one from a TV I picked out of the trash, and it looks like new now.

                    I can understand the non-moving parts of the display burning in, but this one even burned in paths from the moving objects.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • arneson
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Sep 2005
                      • 1267

                      #11
                      Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                      Originally posted by Maxxarcade
                      I can understand the non-moving parts of the display burning in, but this one even burned in paths from the moving objects.
                      Hey that old tube has ccfl backlight I see from your pic.
                      Jim

                      Comment

                      • Maxxarcade
                        Badcaps Veteran
                        • Jul 2006
                        • 973

                        #12
                        Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                        Ha! Even if it was, no ccfl could ever touch the lifetime of a good ol' crt

                        I also just noticed you can see the reflection of the recapped monitor with the new crt, running for testing behind me.

                        Comment

                        • japlytic
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 2086
                          • Australia

                          #13
                          Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                          Keep in mind about CRTs being a safety critical component in terms of radiation shielding. They should be carefully substituted with units of identical or better characteristics.

                          The power supplies in some arcade machines (as well as capacitors on logic boards) are not rated for continuous operation - all to bad designs, especially those which are poorly ventillated.
                          My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

                          Comment

                          • Shroomie
                            Badcaps Veteran
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 356

                            #14
                            Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                            Oh look...the Star Wars board has an L&C power supply. No wonder it died...

                            It's weird how much it looks like an AT PC. The other one, not so much, though.
                            You know there's something wrong when you open up a PSU and are glad to find Teapos.
                            Why I don't buy cheap cases!

                            Comment

                            • kc8adu
                              Super Moderator
                              • Nov 2003
                              • 8832
                              • U.S.A!

                              #15
                              Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                              heres some good burnin.
                              a shame i didnt snap a pic of the one from an igt poker.
                              was so bad the phosphor was peeling like old paint!
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                              • Tom41
                                Badcaps Veteran
                                • Oct 2005
                                • 336
                                • England

                                #16
                                Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                                I've frequently seen arcade games with the INSERT COIN message badly burnt into the CRT. The problem seems to occur most on the projection CRT monitors, but also on standard CRTs. I've even seen the INSERT COIN message burnt on the newer plasma displays used in games such as House of the Dead 4.

                                Incidentally, the plasma screen can't be 'read' by the gun in the same way as CRTs, so they have to put small IR-LEDs around the screen - but that's another story.

                                I've attached a picture of the monitor from an original Pong game that was on display in a museum. It was actually switched on while I took the picture, but because of the flash the camera's exposure was drastically shortened. Therefore, not much of the actual image was shown - but the burn is clear to see.
                                Being Pong, I'm sure this wasn't the original B/W CRT that came with the cabinet; it would have long since failed. But still, being on for all the time the museum is open has taken its toll on the replacement screen.

                                Speaking of bad caps, I haven't actually SEEN any in arcade games but I'm sure I've seen symptoms before! I saw one game that only booted up properly every 4th or 5th time, and often froze in mid-game. Another one was doing a ROM test error on startup, with a different ROM failing each time!

                                I wonder what would happen if the caps went bad inside a one-arm-bandit machine? Would it keep paying out indefinitely? Would you spin a win and it not register? Probably the worst thing that would happen is you'd put your money in, then the game would reboot and reset the credits to 0.
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by Tom41; 07-11-2006, 12:43 PM.
                                You know there's something wrong when you open your PC and it has vented Rubycons...

                                Comment

                                • Maxxarcade
                                  Badcaps Veteran
                                  • Jul 2006
                                  • 973

                                  #17
                                  Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                                  It could be the original CRT; we have quite a few b/w games from the 70's (space invaders, asteroids, pong/hockey, atari football etc) that still have the original CRT's in them, and they are burned just like that. We have an Asteroids here that actually has spots where the phosphor fell off the glass in the burned spots, and it still has decent brightness on the good phosphor.

                                  Projection displays do burn much faster though because of how bright the CRT's have to be. The on-time and the fact that the cooling fluid can only dissipate so much heat in the poorly ventilated cabinets doesn't help either.

                                  As for plasma, I've heard they actually burn faster than most regular CRT's do...

                                  Comment

                                  • japlytic
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Oct 2005
                                    • 2086
                                    • Australia

                                    #18
                                    Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                                    I bought a Kortek video monitor (1987) from a local junk shop for parts, and the 680uF 200V Samyoung input capacitor had a bulged plastic cover. Upon removal of this cover, it revealed that the vent has not bulged, but removing this unit from the board revealed that it had leaked.

                                    The Nippon Chemi-Con electrolytic capacitors I would recommend for arcade monitors are KZM (=<50V), KY (63-100V), KXJ (=>160V) and for snap-in units, LXM (160-450V).
                                    Polymer units specified for certain supply rails should also be long life units.
                                    Note these are long life units, because of the reason I mentioned earlier in this thread.
                                    My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

                                    Comment

                                    • RJARRRPCGP
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Jul 2004
                                      • 6301
                                      • USA

                                      #19
                                      Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                                      IIRC, I saw the game Vapor TRX crash repeatedly before at a place!

                                      The symptoms looked just like a bad overclock!

                                      It would go to a black screen that looked like error information, (I think it also mentioned a register, "EIX", "EIP", etc.) just like a PC crash! O_O (Like when Duke Nukem 3D crashed on me in the past)

                                      Or it freezes.
                                      ASRock B550 PG Velocita

                                      Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

                                      32 GB G.Skill RipJaws V F4-3200C16D-32GVR

                                      Arc A770 16 GB

                                      eVGA Supernova G3 750W

                                      Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD

                                      Alienware AW3423DWF OLED




                                      "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

                                      "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

                                      "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                                      "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

                                      Comment

                                      • pun84
                                        New Member
                                        • Apr 2011
                                        • 3

                                        #20
                                        Re: Arcade games and bad caps...

                                        About those ENHANCE psu's in the Megatouch EVO's

                                        You've gotta be careful with them because, even when recapped and the fan replaced.. i've had the TL494 PWM chip fail on me, or parts associated with the circuit.. and the power supply starts putting out about 10+VDC on the +5 line.. and around 30V on the +12 output...

                                        Fried a couple hard drives and touchscreens... not sure why the overcurrent protection circuit wouldn't kick in..

                                        Comment

                                        Related Topics

                                        Collapse

                                        • momaka
                                          Seasonic B12 BC-550 – barely 2 years old and with BAD CAPS already!
                                          by momaka
                                          I know I've been a little scarce lately (like the last 2-3 years), but I'm still here and still doing my thing with fixing PSUs.

                                          For today's considerations, I have a Seasonic B12 BC-550 [A551bcafh] 550 Watt ATX power supply for you (click on links for full size images).

                                          https://www.badcaps.net/filedata/fetch?id=3591771


                                          https://www.badcaps.net/filedata/fetch?id=3591772

                                          It's a modern ATX unit with fixed (non-modular) cables and an 80-plus bronze certificate. Here's the label:

                                          https://www.badcaps.net/filedata/fetch?id=359177...
                                          03-12-2025, 03:42 PM
                                        • eryjus
                                          Heathkit IO-4205 Power Supply Caps
                                          by eryjus
                                          Hello,

                                          First, I am a complete noob with high voltage stuff. I'm learning, but I need help by someone looking over my shoulder.

                                          I recently came into posession of a Heathkit IO-4205 5MHz Dual Trace Oscilloscope. The documentation is copyright 1978. I'm told it works.

                                          I opened it up to check the caps before I applied power, and found the following black caps and wanted to know what they were. They are on the power supply board. I was able to read the name and model and came up with, "Nytronics 162J-1, 0.1uF, 20% tolerance, 2000VDC."
                                          ...
                                          05-10-2023, 11:21 AM
                                        • Paxman_Swede
                                          Identifying caps on an old Zoom 9000
                                          by Paxman_Swede
                                          Hello!

                                          I have two projects on my work bench. One is a friends dead JBL Xtreme speaker with a blown voltage regulator and corresponding bulged and shorted cap. That cap has clear markings so I know what replacement I need for it.

                                          The other project however is a whole different deal. It's a Zoom 9000 guitar effect from the 90th that has developed a devil hound howl when there is no input from the guitar. I'm guessing caps problem. So, since I don't really use this effect anymore I thought it would be a perfect project to learn on.

                                          I have studied the board and...
                                          01-14-2025, 09:51 AM
                                        • captain150
                                          Help with switching power supply caps
                                          by captain150
                                          I'm trying to repair two old VCRs, they both have bad caps. One has leaky ones, the other would barely run until I subbed in some caps from another power supply I had laying around (though they are the wrong values). This vcr works for an hour or two, but then the power supply starts whining and the picture gets lines in it. I didn't replace all the secondary caps, so another voltage might still be problematic, or the values I used are too far off.
                                          I've been on mouser and digikey but the options are a bit overwhelming. I just need some new ones that will work. They don't need to be top quality,...
                                          03-16-2025, 07:34 PM
                                        • Foetuss
                                          Gigabyte GA-6OXT :: caps question
                                          by Foetuss
                                          Good evening

                                          I recently aquired a rev 1.1 Gigabyte 60XT, and was suprised of the amount of leaking caps for a motherboard of the P3 era. Especially the way the 330µf caps seems like the housing discolored even.
                                          Now, there are some 3300µF 6.3V KZG series around the CPU. Would it be OK to replace them with something like EEUFR1A332 ? (Panasonic FR 3300µF 10V). Or was this board designed around very low ESR caps?

                                          But I was also suprised about the bigger boys, which are 330µF 25V.
                                          Could it be they used 25V caps because they were cheaper / available at that time?...
                                          02-11-2025, 12:22 PM
                                        • Loading...
                                        • No more items.
                                        Working...