hawaiian breeze fan

[Mad_Professor]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Sonix, actually. SN8P2602B

A 95 page manual: https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...90923eb075.pdf

Doubt that it's knackered, though. If it is, it's trashed as it's a factory programmed chip.

Motor(s) or controller transistors make more sense.

I tested each transistor and they tested ok, as in get a reading on pins 2-3 before going open. There is 4 of them, one for each mode *low, medium, high* then SW which might be on/off or oscillation mode for the unit.

I think it's not getting a good filtered ripple from the supply voltage, but my inexperience and naivety shows.

[Toasty]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

If you measure across pin 5 (-) to pin 14(+) you should see about 5v. Check that. Careful not to short to neighboring pins.

Your picture:
lower left pin (with white mark) is Pin1
upper left is Pin 18

If the 5v is missing, then it's likely the Zener (as Krankshaft implied), or one of the two diodes. Circuit draws very little current to run IC and _probably_ runs through that 2w, 20Ω resistor. Check that also for value.

If that all checks out, then maybe the crystal died. XTAL1 - blue object right above IC

Toast

[Krankshaft]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Based on the video it looks like the micro is going wacky. As Toasty posted above check the supply voltage and the ceramic resonator.

To answer your question about the cap near the motor if it has one it's a capacitor start induction motor.

Most desk and stand fans use a poly type cap (a few uf) as a start cap.

It creates a phase shift which allows the motor to start spinning and gives the motor more starting torque to overcome the inertia of getting the blades moving. If the cap was bad the motor would hum and you'd need to rotate the shaft to get it started.

Some fans use a shaded pole induction motor which doesn't require a start cap but they have less starting torque.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

I suggested the transistors earlier but I apparently did suggest strongly enough.

Point to looking at the IC is to figure out it makes the transistors do.

A or some bad transistors would look the same as a bad controller IC.

There are only 4 transistors, just check them one by one.
.

[kc8adu]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

afaik they are gone.brookstone should be next to die.
generic cheap junk differing only in name from the walmart and flea market stuff with a 10x markup.
as far as zener regulators they are still common in cheap junk electronics because nothing is cheaper.

I thought Sharper Image went bankrupt are they still in business? Always overpriced junk in any case.

[Mad_Professor]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

If you measure across pin 5 (-) to pin 14(+) you should see about 5v. Check that. Careful not to short to neighboring pins.

Your picture:
lower left pin (with white mark) is Pin1
upper left is Pin 18

If the 5v is missing, then it's likely the Zener (as Krankshaft implied), or one of the two diodes. Circuit draws very little current to run IC and _probably_ runs through that 2w, 20Ω resistor. Check that also for value.

If that all checks out, then maybe the crystal died. XTAL1 - blue object right above IC

Toast

Set my DMM to 20VDC and used the PDF to guide me, went four legs down and placed black probe on the next leg, went one down from the right and placed probe on next leg,
No Volts!

Checked twice to make sure I was on the correct pins and making contact.

Also saw 0.01 to 0.03 volts pulsing with led and motor.

But the funny thing is I get 5 volts at the big lytic cap, just after the zener.

[Toasty]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Pins (looking at your picture)

18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10

 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

5 = (-)

14 = (+)

Your description of what you tested doesn't match for Pin 14 (+).
The 2 pins are right across from each other.

[Mad_Professor]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Pins (looking at your picture)

18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10

 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

5 = (-)

14 = (+)

Your description of what you tested doesn't match for Pin 14 (+).
The 2 pins are right across from each other.

Oops... What the... I don't know why I was thinking of pin 8, my mistake guess I wasn't fully awake.

I measured pin 5 and pin 14 got the 5 volts, going to check 20ohm resistor I assume it's that big grey thing, and diodes look fine on meter with diode setting.


EDIT: 20 ohm resistor removed from circuit, check out at 25ohms Diodes check out at .69 each, zener out of range of my meter.

[Krankshaft]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

If the supply voltage is fine check the transistors for the speed settings if they check out that would only leave a faulty crystal or a bad micro.

[Toasty]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Since you are getting 5v across the chip, I think the power is fine.

So, as others have indicated the chip is scrambled or the resonator/crystal is bad.

FWIW: Try unplugging the unit and holding down each button one at a time and then plugging it back in. Maybe something of a reset for the chip. Try 2 buttons.

LOL Krank beat me to the post

[Mad_Professor]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

If the supply voltage is fine check the transistors for the speed settings if they check out that would only leave a faulty crystal or a bad micro.

To do this I assume 200ohm setting on the DMM then do
leg 1 to 2
leg 1 to 3
leg 2 to 3

Do I need to take them out of circuit?

Since you are getting 5v across the chip, I think the power is fine.

So, as others have indicated the chip is scrambled or the resonator/crystal is bad.

FWIW: Try unplugging the unit and holding down each button one at a time and then plugging it back in. Maybe something of a reset for the chip. Try 2 buttons.

LOL Krank beat me to the post

I didn't think of that, So I tried it, mashed buttons and then plugged it in and hope it worked, but it didn't.

Well since we can't replace the micro then let's replace the resonator/crystal and hope it fixes the problem.

The resonator is 4.00MG
Looking this up on google I get ZTT or ZTA series made by ECS
Since ZTT is a three leaded resonator, the ZTA is what I think I want and digikey has them in stock.

But some experienced input is requested.

[bluto]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Try the X911-ND (4 MHz - 2 pin). I had similar issues with my range hood (https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...?t=8654&page=2) and a new resonator fixed it. For fifty cents, what do you have to lose? After all, isn't the mantra something like "the silicon parts rarely go bad"? Hopefully that it the case for your fan's brain as well.

[Krankshaft]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

To test the transistors use the diode check function it's much more reliable than the resistance function. Go from base to collector you should only get a reading one way a voltage drop of around 0.700 volts on the meter if you don't get a reading flip the probes.

If you don't get a reading the transistor is open if you get 0.00 in either probe orientation then it's shorted. Do the same from base to emitter.

The resonator is your last hope if the transistors are fine. Without a scope or frequency counter to verify if the clock signal is stable you'll just have to shotgun it.

[brethin]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Typical China made shit, just throw it away, I see these for sale for like $15, if time was money you have already spent more than that trying to fix it.

[Mad_Professor]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Typical China made shit, just throw it away, I see these for sale for like $15, if time was money you have already spent more than that trying to fix it.

yeah but it's fifty cent part combined with 2$ for USPS that's $2.50, I would have saved myself $12.50 that's nearly my hourly wage for moving 2500 packages an hour.

Plus I enjoy fixing stuff, and since I am learning electronic repair on my spare time, I've learned alot just from working on this fan.




Anyways transistors look ok, not the .700 you suggested but since they are matching transistors with nearly identical results.

T1 *Grey wire === .453
T2 *Orange wire== .471
T3 *Red wire ==== .447
T4 *Black wire === .502

Time to shotgun it?

[brethin]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

So your time is worth nothing? Because you clearly have spent at least 4 hours working on it and at your nearly hour wage of $12.50 that is $50.

[Toasty]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

Captain Ahab....

"He tasks me, and I shall have him!"

[smason]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

So your time is worth nothing? Because you clearly have spent at least 4 hours working on it and at your nearly hour wage of $12.50 that is $50.

So what? This is Badcaps. We fix stuff. Stuff not normally worth fixing. It's what we do. Because we can.

My time is worth lots, but if I enjoy doing it, and learn from it, I'll waste 2 hours fixing a 15" LCD monitor that I'll end up donating for free.

[Mad_Professor]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

So your time is worth nothing? Because you clearly have spent at least 4 hours working on it and at your nearly hour wage of $12.50 that is $50.

YES.

Time is constant
Currency on the other hand is a human concept.

The concept of time equals money is false due to the fact that currency is not constant or consistent with time.

Your notion of "time is worth nothing to me" is therefore true.

If that doesn't get your goat, then you have no soul.

Anyways,
I could work my whole life away and contribute to rising empire that's China, buying stuff to replace stuff every year while I watch America go down the drain.
Look at it this way, that's $47.50 that I could use to pay bills, buy food or gas, and save instead of buying another piece of shit fan made in china that will die in few years and end up in a landfill somewhere.

The fact is I get to experience stuff that most people wouldn't even bother doing or learn how something works.

I appreciate your suggestion and I will take it under advisement.

So what? This is Badcaps. We fix stuff. Stuff not normally worth fixing. It's what we do. Because we can.

My time is worth lots, but if I enjoy doing it, and learn from it, I'll waste 2 hours fixing a 15" LCD monitor that I'll end up donating for free.

If there was thumbs up or a reputation system I would dump all my points into that post.

That's how I feel, I'm doing this because I enjoy it, and I want to learn something.

Now to contribute to my thread:
Going to buy that resonator and see if it works or not, I'm confident that resonator is the problem.

If not, I got a box fan with a dead motor but it has a four speed switch, and only because I can.

[kc8adu]

Re: hawaiian breeze fan

pull it and scrape the leads.i found a bunch of those cheap resonators over the years where the plating let go.like the ctc140 rectifier sip board.
you could pull it out leaving the plating in the board.
as for whether its worth it to fix something that was trash when shipped i look at it as free education.you may or may not apply what you learned on a paying job in the future but it was a free learning experience.and if it does not live you can toss it where it was designed to go anyway.its the only reason i even look at this stuff.i specialise in fixing irreplaceable industrial stuff.never the same job!