Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

[Ranmamez]

Hello.
I guess this is my second post here.
Anyway, I need some help.
I bought this used motherboard for replacing another one (same model) of a friend that was T.F.U. and thrown away.
Now the story of what happened when it arrived.
First time I tried it, it was on a testing cabinet and it booted correctly, so I switched it off and took off to install it on the friend's rig, but after installing it there, it wouldn't want to boot anymore, no matter what I tried: changing cpu (tried Prescott single thread and ht, Northwood 2.0A and 2.4GHz and a Willamette 1.7), ram, vga and psu, naturally trying to switch it on only with the basic components on it (cpu, ram, vga, psu plugged on atx and 12v supplemental, and only switch cable and beeper loudspeaker from the cabinet), resetting cmos/bios and even removing the cmos battery.
So I left the motherboard apart, waiting for some new tricks to revive electronics, and the trick arrived, not so long ago: I read about the "baking" technique with related precautions, so I tried it. A bit less of 10 minutes in the oven, with four hand-made spacers at the corners (made of tiny pellets of tin foil/kitchen aluminum foil) and BAM! The mobo booted again!
Now you surely wonder why then this thread: well, I had the BAD, very very BAD, no, the UGLY idea to test a not working (but very low times used, that's another story) vga board! I tried this board several other times on other motherboards and, except not booting due to the failing vga and consequent mobo beeping, it did nothing, the motherboards kept working on other gpus afterwise.
But on this Asus P4P800-SE something gone wrong, since after replacing it with the working vga it didn't want to boot anymore: naturally all of the other components work on another system, the cpus, the ram and obviously the working vga.
So I tried once more (but only ONCE) to "bake" it, same timespan, same tips, etc. to no avail
Actually, if I try to boot it, it warms the chipset a little too much: the southbridge more than the n.b. (since this last one has the heatsink). I tried to measure the temperatures with a ir termometer and it says about 50-60 °C for the s.b. and 40-45~ °C for the n.b. (sorry for the celsius scale, I'm italian and we uses S.I. here :P I'd take temps on °F next time ).

Btw, actually the caps are good looking, no bulging, so I assume they're good, but I didn't test them. In any case they are:

• 4 x 1200 uF 16 v KZE (really, KZE, I can take a pic!)
• 7 x 1500 uF 6.3 v OST RLX
• 17 x 1000 uF 6.3 v OST RLP

Oh, I were going to forget: I have even an Asus P4P8X with the same problem, but this came (for free) directly with this same problem, or at least the same behaviour (as far as I can remember). I would like to fix this latest one too, but in case I could take its components if it would be of help fixing the P4P800-SE!

Thank you in advance for reading me and for any help provided.

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

The KZE caps are made by Chemicon, and those are really reliable. KZG and KZJ are the unreliable ones. But after the baking, who knows...

At what temperature did you bake the board? If anything above 105C, the electrolytic caps are probably toast and will need replacing. Baking any computer equipment with electrolytic caps above 105C will do more damage than good.

I see 2 possible scenarios why the baking might have helped the first time you tried it:

Case 1:
One or more of the OST caps may have been bad or just marginal. Heating an electrolytic capacitor causes its ESR to drop. As capacitors age or when they fail, their ESR goes up, so the baking could have made just enough difference to make the board boot.

Case 2:
Since this is a P4-based board, the CPU socket is BGA. And BGA can go bad overtime, especially when exposed to lots of thermal cycling or under sheer stress. I know for a fact that many of the P4 CPU coolers made the board warp under the CPU socket, so it could be that this board has just warped too far making the CPU socket BGA go bad.

In reality, though, those older motherboards use leaded solder, so I'm more inclined to think the problem is case 1. Also, OST is known to go bad very often on motherboards. Because this is an Asus P4P800, beware if you see GSC caps too - those are even more horrible if not the most horrible of capacitors.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

I'm more worried about LGA under thermal cycling.

Sometimes, LGA seems to break just by looking at it a certain way.

And never saw GSC on an Asus. (Mostly Epox and wondered if that's why Epox went under)

(GSC on an Asus is probably as rare as a P4 running off the +5V rail!)

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

Hmm, you sure? Maybe I have bad memory then. For some reason, I remember a few years back that a friend of mine brought me some P4 motherboard, and I just recall it being a P4P800, but I could be wrong. I do remember very well that it had GSC and OST caps, though, because some of the GSC caps around the CPU were bad.

[Ranmamez]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

The KZE caps are made by Chemicon, and those are really reliable. KZG and KZJ are the unreliable ones. But after the baking, who knows...

Well, in any case, it would be great for me to fix the motherboard just by replacing the caps.

At what temperature did you bake the board? If anything above 105C, the electrolytic caps are probably toast and will need replacing. Baking any computer equipment with electrolytic caps above 105C will do more damage than good.

I set my oven to ~200 °C, but I can't be so sure about the real temperature since it doesn't have a termometer.
In any case I did it for more ore less 10 minutes. Ah, btw, I used gas fire, not the electrical grill, and now comes to my mind that gas fire makes lots of humidity (moisture? I don't know what's the appropriate term in this case ^^).

I see 2 possible scenarios why the baking might have helped the first time you tried it:

Case 1:

Well, ok, maybe it's like that, but then why the second time the same trick didn't work?

Case 2:

I see, and I can even agree. Even tho this one isn't warped under the cpu socket, but I thought more like chipset's BGA not well soldered, so the baking helped the first time.

In reality, though, those older motherboards use leaded solder, so I'm more inclined to think the problem is case 1. Also, OST is known to go bad very often on motherboards. Because this is an Asus P4P800, beware if you see GSC caps too - those are even more horrible if not the most horrible of capacitors.

I see that all the tiny 100uF 16v caps are GSC, I see 9 of them: should I try to replace them? I see them not bulging or other signs over them, but in the other hand they don't have a "bulge-able" top, this one is quite "always" flat, so you can't be sure if they failed or not just by seeing them...

Anyway, do you have any idea about why the motherboard failed again just after trying the failing videocard?

I'm more worried about LGA under thermal cycling.
Sometimes, LGA seems to break just by looking at it a certain way.

LGAs are like socket 775, 1366, 1156, 1155, 1150 and 2011 (for intels), right?
Not my case, then ^^

And never saw GSC on an Asus. (Mostly Epox and wondered if that's why Epox went under)
(GSC on an Asus is probably as rare as a P4 running off the +5V rail!)

Maybe you can't believe me but this p4p800-se has 9 of it. Interestingly, the p4p8x doesn't have them, but 8 x 100uF 16v OST RLG instead.

...I just recall it being a P4P800, but I could be wrong. I do remember very well that it had GSC and OST caps, though, because some of the GSC caps around the CPU were bad.

Btw, do you meant the bigger caps or even the tiny ones as I mentioned above?

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

Well, ok, maybe it's like that, but then why the second time the same trick didn't work?

Probably cooked the caps too much. Every time you expose the caps to an extreme high temperature, pressure builds inside them and even if they don't vent/bulge, they can still eventually dry out.

I see, and I can even agree. Even tho this one isn't warped under the cpu socket, but I thought more like chipset's BGA not well soldered, so the baking helped the first time.

Could be the chipset BGA, yes. Did it run very got before when the motherboard was still functional? I guess one thing you can try is to push hard on the chipset heat sink (but not so much that you bend or break the board), then try to turn on the motherboard. If it's a BGA issue, this *may* make the motherboard work again (temporarily, of course).

I see that all the tiny 100uF 16v caps are GSC, I see 9 of them: should I try to replace them?

Only if you replace the other bigger caps too. The bigger caps are a lot more important. These small caps are not very critical most of the time.

Anyway, do you have any idea about why the motherboard failed again just after trying the failing videocard?

Nope.

Btw, do you meant the bigger caps or even the tiny ones as I mentioned above?

On my friend's, it was the big ones around the CPU.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

I'm not that surprised about tiny GSC caps like I would be for Vcore caps. Asus probably never uses GSC on the Vcore and the like.

But that's still playing dirty! Especially getting bulgers around the ethernet and sound.

Asus usually uses Ost if they didn't use Chemi-Con.

[Ranmamez]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

Probably cooked the caps too much. Every time you expose the caps to an extreme high temperature, pressure builds inside them and even if they don't vent/bulge, they can still eventually dry out.

Yeah, I see and agree. Maybe next time I'd try the oven trick unsoldering the caps first. Now I hope to fix the board just recapping it...

Could be the chipset BGA, yes. Did it run very got before when the motherboard was still functional?

Nope, I let it cool down before remounting it in the cabinet.

I guess one thing you can try is to push hard on the chipset heat sink (but not so much that you bend or break the board), then try to turn on the motherboard. If it's a BGA issue, this *may* make the motherboard work again (temporarily, of course).

Yeah, now I don't remember very well, but maybe I already tried to do that. Anyway one more time wouldn't hurt, even tho I thought that the heatsink spring/clip is strong enough to push over the northbridge.

Only if you replace the other bigger caps too. The bigger caps are a lot more important. These small caps are not very critical most of the time.

Well, I hope to find a cheap recapping kit because I don't want to spend too much, with no result guarantee too.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17466

I wish you good luck with that board. Mine, is used for parts now..

[puterhater]

Re: Asus P4P800-SE no boot no beep chipset warm/hot

I have capped a 5 of these & I own 4 that are running now as you might have read my post https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31005
My experience is if you don't see caps bulging then don't waste your time.If I see one or 2 of the 1500uf 6.3v 8mm 20mm bulging then I will just do all 7
Or if one or 2 of the 820uF 6.3v 8mm 12mm then I do all 17 of those
If no sign of any bad caps the board is toast.