Jetway V266B with GSC

[Shroomie]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

it can be used for some terrorism material you know

Not Rubys and Pannys, but you could use GSC and the like as stink bombs...

edit: 200? Man, I need to get out more.

[yanz]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

edit: 200? Man, I need to get out more.

you should

Not Rubys and Pannys, but you could use GSC and the like as stink bombs...

uh-huh.


trodas, maybe from indonesia too. the packet i sent to willawake now have taken 2 weeks and still no news if they have arrived. i paid for less 10 days delivery though.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

The point is that on many goods there are some custom fees, AKA a kind of EU industry protection (e.g. on any meat and other foods and nearly all consumer elektronics). Therefore any member of the EU hase to chek any paket from those countries where the most elektronic stuff comes from. IMHO any asian country. But here in germany even US pakets are very strikly controled, far more accurat then lets say in 1999/2000. But this is due to the large ammount of illegal pharmazeutics are sold via the net and some anabolika too.

[trodas]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

yanz -

packet i sent to willawake now have taken 2 weeks and still no news if they have arrived

Damn, that was slow. Maybe letter could be faster? So, how long in the end it took?

you could use GSC and the like as stink bombs...

Maybe they ARE a weapon, after all. When you see the noise that happen when cap explode, it might shoot pretty well from closed tube when 400V AC is applied


gonzo0815 -

many goods there are some custom fees, AKA a kind of EU industry protection

We view that more as unfair protecting own companyes against foreign competition and as warning sign of government did not doing what is best for his people - eg. let the competition be ruined and higher prices enforced by some sort of lobby used by these companyes into the government.
Unfortunately this bad habbit is spread all over the globe, so it will be hard to get rid of it...

Anyway, the point is, that EU have ZERO custom fees on ANY sort of capacitors. Yet one still have to pay the tax - unbeliable as it sounds, but true. Therefore anything striped off invoice is welcome

For my experience, they check only randomly choosen packages - eg. the big ones. And ALL these with invoices on them, of course...

And what is the illegal pharmazeutics?! Just another thing that government have no right to do - tell people what they can or cannot eat. And then enforce these rules by force, payed by very these against it is used. Somebody call stop to that...

"What goes into man's mouth does not defile him, but what comes out of his mouth, that defiles him."


You know who this said?

...

Jezus Christ And he was more that right.
http://www.slibe.com/zoom/dc747cf3-dual_jezus2_jpg/


Anyway, back on topic!

The mobo was in operation for 8 months now, still running w/o a glitch, folding all the day. Just day before yesterday I opened it up, cleaned it and checked for signs of troubles with caps - and none found.
The mobo is still holding it's max. overclock stable - hoooray for Samxons!

First, I see I failed to produce list of need caps, so, if you need to recap the mobo, you need:
9x 1500uF 6.3V d10
4x 1500uF 16V d10
12x 1000uF 10V d8
8x 470uF 16V d8
2x 220uF 15V d6.5
3x 100uF 16V d6.5
16x 22uF 16V d4

The smaller caps are mostly 10uF, but 22uF there won't hurt, so, let's save one type And I will need replace these 10 and 22uF ones too, I did not do that before, but the GSC letters on side of these small caps are scaring me...

And I got another V266B - of course caps are totaled badly

[willawake]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

So, how long in the end it took?

it took one month and was not opened by either customs. it was sent registered as well. who knows what happened. it can take 3 days from London or Hong Kong but sometimes something happen and it take one month or otherwise it never arrive or it arrive empty all stolen by postal service needs some patience in the end.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

All my latest internationall packages are controled and withdrawn by custom, until i personally toled them the "officiall" name of the caps and payed the tax. Thus i think they are very stricktly those days.

[yanz]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

I write a "capacitor" beside willawake's address. But I can imagine that the packet was x-ray-ed by the security/officer and they looked at that many suspicious cylindric/tube images on the screen and wondering what they are and what should do... Call the dog?

Maybe letter could be faster

I send the caps in an envelope though.

All my latest internationall packages are controled and withdrawn by custom, until i personally toled them the "officiall" name of the caps and payed the tax. Thus i think they are very stricktly those days.

wow..!

needs some patience in the end.

very true.

The mobo was in operation for 8 months now, still running w/o a glitch, folding all the day. Just day before yesterday I opened it up, cleaned it and checked for signs of troubles with caps - and none found.
The mobo is still holding it's max. overclock stable - hoooray for Samxons!

I'll see in the next 8 months. If it still be fine in your rigs by then, than i can assume that samxon is safe to use for my major recapping.

[trodas]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

willawake - one month?! And to this I thought I'm the only one suffering there from slow post. But it never took me 3 days from Hong Kong. Usualy 7 to 10 days (witch is about 5 work days at best) from Big Pope. Not bad, IMHO. From USA it is usualy faster, about 4 - 5 work days, sometimes (from west cost) slower. East coast is definitively good 5 to 10 days faster. I never had shipping delivered that took more that 14 days yet.
I have no idea about the Canadian speed, I thought it should be around the USA speed, but it never realized, so I don't know.
Stolen package happen for me only once and it was actually some stuff mostly for my friend that went pretty furious about it - anyway the point is, the shipment never left the USA... And to that I thought only Czech post can stole package, even it never yet happen to me
And patience is what is missing in my end, true...


gonzo0815 - I had problem only when the package come from the firrm. Never from person. And in EU, all capacitors has zero import dutty. You have to pay the tax if it come with invoice, tough. Never had a problem w/o invoice. No invoice, no problemo. Of course try tell that to the US of A company...


yanz - LOL As far as I know, they check only randomly selected packages. So, using a small evenlope like Big Pope does help a lot. Big packages are suspicious, hehe But seems you already know the drill - pack them into boubles tightly and... let's go

The mobo was in operation for 8 months now, still running w/o a glitch, folding all the day. Just day before yesterday I opened it up, cleaned it and checked for signs of troubles with caps - and none found. The mobo is still holding it's max. overclock stable - hoooray for Samxons!

I'll see in the next 8 months. If it still be fine in your rigs by then, than i can assume that samxon is safe to use for my major recapping.

I opened the maching to count the last 10uF and 22uF 16V caps I need to get rid of the rest GSC caps - 16 pcs of 22uF will be used there.

There is one thing I must confess to, tough. To be entierly honest, I (with my best intentions, as always) added in parallel to the Vcore caps 100nF ceramic SMD caps.

While it at first lookes like very nice thing to do to help, I quickly realized that on the DFI it caused so massive ripple, that the mosfets heat up more that twice they do w/o these caps and as well, the machine become unstable at about any clock over 2Ghz.

Now for the longetivity estiminates it looks like these ceramics added a hell of unnecessary stress, so after first 8 months I removed them. I think we can easily estiminate that it stressed even at poor 150 x 12.5 these Vcore poor caps with heat enought that it might in fact be already about twice the time... It is just a speculation, tough not entierly unreasonable, I'm affraid. And I got another V266B for recap already, hehe, this time I will experiment with more GC caps and lower their voltages, as there is nowhere near need for 16V in the imput ones for Vcore, for example - they are powered by 5V line, etc...

[davmax]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

Careful Trodas. Most VRM's have 5 volt input but some do have 12 volt. Check before replacing 16V caps.

[trodas]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

Thanks for the warning - it is never late to check, but...

...this board do not have the additional 12V PSU supply connector.

Therefore I see no need to use 16V caps there. And if they explode? Well, at least we see first dead Samxons. I mean - we saw Chemi-cons, Nichicons, Panasonics (wrongly polarized) and even Rubycons. Time to tickle the dragon tail a little.

Yes, I know that there IS one pin on the ATX PSU connector that does have 12V, but that is just used for fan's

(mostly, I do realize that pin A1 in AGP has 12V as well, as pin A2 on PCI, but that is all for fan's only anyway)

[Per Hansson]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

No, that single +12v wire has been used to power CPU VRM's

Many old Epox mobos would overload this wire and thusly melt the ATX connector... Does not require a too poor contact between the cable and connector before the resistance becomes too high and thusly the temperature increases...

[trodas]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

Per Hansson -

No, that single +12v wire has been used to power CPU VRM's

This is, my friend, a very bold statement and you WILL regret it

First, I do not dubt that someone crazy might sometimes use the 12V pin there for Vcore powering, but IF these cases even EXIST's, THEY are VERY rare.

Let's take a look at V266B, witch this thread is all about, shall we? Let's take a scope and check out the voltage on the primary Vcore caps, that are 16V ones. Ooooops, 5V Let's take the second V266B mobo I have at hand - and oops, no connection between the 12V pin and these Vcore primary 16V caps as well - yet there is a VERY GOOD connection between them and all the 5V wires on PSU connector

Okay, let's take another look. PC chips M810L mobo folding on my stepbro desk. And once again, on the caps and on the regulator imputs are - 5V and not 12V

What about higher end AMD mainboards, like Epox 8RDA+? Let me see - oooops, the primary Vcore pre-mosfets caps are once again connected directly (trough coil, tough) to the 5V rails on PSU connector

What about Intel word then? Abit ST6R? Not even by the original it does not have single Vcore cap with more that 6.3V - again it prove that the 5V rail is (as all the time I saw on old mobos w/o the 12V support PSU "P4" connectors) used for Vcore powering


As you see, be carefull of such oversimplified statements, please.

Now we all know, that to keep the production flowing, any company solder almost anything that fit on the mobo's. Therefore insisting on replacing 10V (!) or 16V caps with the same voltage ones is many times not necessary.
In fact, it is a plain stupid blind following of other's errors and design inperfections. We all know, that 100V cap used at 1V hadly remain (estiminated) 20% of it's specs. Perhaps more, perhaps less. No one talk much about it todays. ( I can't even find the thread where we discussed about caps, voltage and how their specs change, Topcat? Did you deleted it by accident or I missed it? ) But sure we know, that this is not exactly optimal and the specs will be lower. We don't know much, but the physic laws says they will be lower. Maybe it will be even DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the specified verzus used voltage. Maybe.

Now why use 10 or even 16V caps, where is only 5V used? To make the caps worser? To lost some capacity and get ESR/ESL increase? What logic is that?

Look, if DFI fit around dimm's on LP B mobo 10V caps, does it mean the Vdimm is close to 10V?
We all know that DDR default voltage is 2.5-2.6V. Some mobos ca do 3.3V, but that require active cooling. Some crazy mobos (like Sapphire Grouper) can do 4.4V on the poor DDR ram's, but don't try choose this option in the bios, onless you did not have peltiers on your ram chips and do not water or phasecool them...
Yet still even in such extreme cases we are nowhere near 10V. In fact, 6.3V caps are more that enough there. We might even take a look for 4V ones rather... (IIRC some Nichicons are 4V ones, but I might confused that with polymers, tough)

I write that to show that blindly following designs that failed in the first place is bad idea. It is just not wise.

Use common sense. If 5V rail lead to cap, you don't need 16V cap there.

If cap is rated 10V (as these primary ones in Epox 8RDA+), you migh consider replacing it with 6.3V in most cases, as - by simple logic - 10V is not enought for 12V rail and what the lower rail's specs are? 5 and 3.3V - both quite bellow 6.3V cap
And are there some voltages over 5V (yet bellow 12) used in PC's? Nowhere near, right?


*********************************************************

But I must admit the mobo recently pissed me off very badly.
Since I use in it a AXP 2800+ Barton CPU, that at default run as 166x12.5 = 2075Mhz, I wanted to use multiplier 14x, witch would give me 150x14 = 2100Mhz.
So, I wired the board like what is there suggested:
http://www.ocinside.de/html/workshop...md_pinmod.html

And quess what! The cursed mobo choose to IGNORE this x14 multi set by wires! I was deeply shocked by it. It is true, that the multiplier changes won't worked for me when I tried it (wire the machine to accept lower multi selections and use multi x6 by switches = no post. No forced multi, just leaved the wire = working stable) but I thought that wiring equals CPU settings and it should not be ignored?!
It is true, that even the jumper setting ended up at multi x12.5. But the wires shall overcome it...??

[trodas]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

Altrought the stability of her machine is 100% (never crash or fail once (!) ) and no Prime stress testing could show any weakness, it do frequently not correctly DMS power off the monitor after the set 10 min of inactivity and 4 or 5 times it failed to power up when I provide from external switcher the main voltage to the PSU.

While these problems for nearly now 9 months of usage with folding all the time (recapped around 3. 20. 2006) aren't serious, I was still convinced that I could get rid of them by replacing the small 10 and 22uF caps, witch I did not before, as I don't have any suitable caps around 22uF to do the job...

But I wanted to exchange them, so about week ago, when I got 22uF 35V RS Samxons from Big Pope, I did it. The immediate impulse was, the the mobo for the last time failed to power on, and for this time, reset not fixed that. So obviously as I suspected, having a old caps with GSC letters on sides are't good, even they are small...

I recapped the remaining 16 pcs of mixed 10 and 22uF ones with these Samxons RS 22uF 35V caps.

Results.
After 30x power on's for test it yet failed to show any failure. I will post ASAP in the JetWay V266B thread to notify when the mobo stop post after providing the power (bios settings say kick on on power on) just once more
After over 50x testing it once again failed to fail to DPMS power off the monitor, as it did before. Excelent

Conclusion.
Recapping even the smallest electrolyte caps from inferior brands aren't voluntary but matadory. Especially on oldie boards, such as V266B...

[gg1978]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

No, that single +12v wire has been used to power CPU VRM's

Many old Epox mobos would overload this wire and thusly melt the ATX connector... Does not require a too poor contact between the cable and connector before the resistance becomes too high and thusly the temperature increases...

There was an Socket A motherboard with ATI chipset IIRC that used the single +12V in the 20 pin ATX bundle for Vcore.. As for the old Epox boards, that was the +5V that typically got roasted on them.. Same for the Tyan S2460. On the Epox's, it was failing caps that would typically make it draw too much +5V current through the pins, causing oxidation and increasing resistance in the connector, which is self sustaining and eventually fatal to the connector. As for the Tyan boards, it's just that there was too much current going through the pins for both CPU Vcore's, Vdimm, etc..

You won't find a standard P4 board that lacks the 4 pin +12V connector, that's for sure..


As for having +12V in unexpected places, check out the Abit KT7 (A) which gets Vdimm from +12V..

[trodas]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

There was an Socket A motherboard with ATI chipset IIRC that used the single +12V in the 20 pin ATX bundle for Vcore...

Witch one was it? I want to get hold of that rare thing, lol
I never saw it done, so, I'm just curious. If you can't remember - it's okay, I believe that there could be a exception That is why I suggested checking the voltages before lovering the caps woltages - except where it is too obvious. Eg. 10V caps...

As for having +12V in unexpected places, check out the Abit KT7 (A) which gets Vdimm from +12V...

...heheh, just yesteday when I recapped my main board where replacement Rubycon MBZ is bulging slightly, causing crashes on the ram powering stuff - I just thought of that. Since when someone notice that the Ampers drawn for the Vdimm could be reduced of higher imput voltage will be used before the mosfets... (same reason as why 12V get used on the Vcore...)

Looks like someone get this idea long time ago

[yanz]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

iirc once i have recapped asrock p4i45gv, it has no +12v aux, but weird that it support prescott cpu (s478).

[Rainbow]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

Some ASRock P4 boards use 5V for CPU power. They're real crap as you must use a PSU with strong 5V rail (which is not common today).

[trodas]

Re: Jetway V266B with GSC

Oh, my... These caps must be pretty well stressed. Witch ones they use? Let me quess - Teapos?

Anyway, it is just another example that one should check the voltages first and not believe in false gods and truth that the company could not be wrong.

Bottom line question - is the input Vcore caps 16V ones even on 5V rail, by any chance? On the V266B they are... On Epox 8RDA+ they are 10V ones.


PS. I was wrong about the Abit. It would be VERY unusual to not having the imput Vcore caps, relying completely on the PSU output caps... I checked it up closely and from the 10 pcs of 6.3V caps it had 4 input and 6 output in the Vcore circuit. My fault