Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Well, I am lucky enough to use one of these : http://www.xeltek.com/universal-programmer
We have 2 of them @ work, and in my break I program them.
Also can I order chips as a private person

[Agent24]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Also can I order chips as a private person

Sure, but it depends who you're buying from.

The most well-known international components distributors are:
http://www.rs-components.com/index.html
or http://www.farnell.com
or http://www.digikey.com/us/en/International/global.html
or http://www.mouser.com/localsites.aspx
They will all ship to an individual, but some will have minimum order requirements, or high shipping cost. You will have to look at all of them and find which one suits you best.

You may be able to find a re-seller or such in your own country too.

And of course, there's always eBay. A lot of sellers there from Asia will ship worldwide for very low cost or even for free, but not all of them sell genuine parts...

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Ok, I know
What I meant, was I can order @ work.
I pay a fair price, and it's fast.

[Profguy01]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hi sparx_59, i am 99% sure that this chip on my DSP board has failed. I have taken the board out and can replace it, however do not have any way of programming the device. Is there any way I can purchase a programmed chip from you please. Many thanks

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Sure mate
Please mail me your adress , and I'll take care of it .

[Chris2990]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hi sparx_59, i am 99% sure that this chip on my DSP board has failed. I have taken the board out and can replace it, however do not have any way of programming the device. Is there any way I can purchase a programmed chip from you please. Many thanks

Hey sparx_59,
same for me please?
I really want to rescue this nice Device

Thank you in anticipation!

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hey sparx_59,
same for me please?
I really want to rescue this nice Device

Thank you in anticipation!

When I get the new chips, 1st one is for you

[Longbow]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Thanks for the very interesting topic. You have certainly gone much further than anyone else to discover these problems. A few questions come to mind on this problem, depending up on how this chip is used. If this chip is a ROM holding program information for a larger CPU, it seems like the lifetime would be far longer than 4-5 years. As a 3 volt chip, there may also be some other circuit board contamination issues that might cause faulty reads. In any case, good show.

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

I think you may be right at this one.
Only thing I know is i checked all voltages, regulators and clocks.
Nothing was out of the ordinary.

Let's see what time tells us after this fix

My receiver works perfect after the chip replacement, and i hope it will do so for many years, because it sounds so good!

And thanks for the compliment

[Longbow]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Thanks for the feedback. Whenever someone gets this deeply into a malfunction I am totally impressed. But, it also makes me curious how many other similar failures are due to aging ROMS and EEPROMS. Older HP test equipment collectors are making copies of the ROM chips because so many units are bricked. The official Denon position is that a warranty item will get the whole PCB. If out of warranty, the cost of the PCB is more than a new unit.

Not only are these chips very difficult to desolder/resolder, but I know of a number of cases that fooled me in the past. This is how yellow glue was discovered. Malfunction. Some pins on the chip were covered with glue. Once the chip was replaced, everything worked OK. The same goes for the glue often used to secure the IC to the PCB. If anyone is brave enough, it would be fun to remove the chip, clean the board, and put the same one back in to prove it is faulty (well, maybe use a socket). In this day of politically correct solder, you can't really be sure of anything - i.e. whiskers, etc.

The Jen-Air oven syndrome doesn't use exotic circuitry, yet the EEPROM does seem to be the culprit and there are thousands of them that fail. In that case, the whole control board is subjected to high heat and I imagine that will speed the failure of any memory chip. The inside of an amplifier runs hot, so we may have the same failure mode as in the oven.

[Agent24]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

At least an EEPROM is fairly replaceable. What's worse than a bad EEPROM? A bad EEPROM inside your microcontroller! You can't even get the part half the time and good luck programming it, even if you can get the ROM image. /rant

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

WOW....nice replies on this subject, I love it

Since law forbids lead containing solder, we electronics ppl have been given problems we do not want. The finished solder is ( often with BGA's ) waiting to crack. Like you mentioned, high temps and cooling down is the cause of this.

The glue underneath the components however, is necessary when the board is soldered in a solder flow bath, preventing the components from falling off. It should not be on the leads

Removing components is indeed tricky, but on boards with the quality of the DSP in the denon, one can safely remove components using hot air or with a lot of solder. Most components can be put to flowing temps more then once without damaging the part. It should be in the specs, but I use a rule of thumb not to solder/desolder the same part more then 3 times.

Putting the part back is : remove part, remove solder ( wick ) , clean with alcohol, put on new (leaded) solder, put on flux, place component and heat it up. The component should align itself when solder reaches flow temp. After cooling off, clean with alcolhol.

And since I am very old, all this takes place under a microscope. Young ppl however, do it without any visual aid

I know a lot of ppl reading all this are aware of all this, but some do not , so maybe they learn something new

[badboy181185]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

hey

i have an denon avr-2802.
I have the problem that I do not get a digital signal more. Sometimes the switch it goes off and on. I suspect the Atmel AT49LV002-90TC chip is broken. they know where I get my or they still have a

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

hey

i have an denon avr-2802.
I have the problem that I do not get a digital signal more. Sometimes the switch it goes off and on. I suspect the Atmel AT49LV002-90TC chip is broken. they know where I get my or they still have a

You've got mail

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Since i have got so much reply's on this fix, I have made a new email address, so please mail your questions to : pcb-fix@hotmail.com
That way i can help even faster

[mmartell]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Kudos to you for helping out the community in this way.

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Kudos to you for helping out the community in this way.

My pleasure

[buglitter]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hi sparx_59,

Your discovery shed light into the way we troubleshoot such a complex receiver.
What I have in possession is a Denon AVR-5800 which doesn't process DSP but works fine in Pure Direct and Stereo mode. I've checked the unit thoroughly but still can't find the source of the problem. I know the problem has to be related to the DSP ICs but never thought about the possible corrupted firmware.
On AVR-5800, the DSP board has 2 REMOVABLE flash chips "SHARP LH28F800BVE-BTL90". These chips are secured in sockets, and they can be removed very easily. At this time, I'm quite busy to mess with this problem, but soon will try to do a ROM dump to find out whether they are okay or corrupted. Although it's possible that the chips or roms are bad, it's more likely that oxidation has caused bad connections between the leads of the chips and the contacts of the sockets (they aren't gold-plated). Sometimes removing and reinserting the chips simply cured the problem. I'll find out when I work on it, and will update you all when I got the results.

In all, thank you for sharing your work!

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hey buglitter

I agree with you about chips on sockets....oxidation can be a problem after time.
I would read every chip several times to see if the data is the same avery time.
If it is, chances are you can write some fresh ones wich will work in circuit.
This way sou end up with clean leads and fresh flash chips.
In my experience, those suckers go from good to bad very fast when problems start, so I would do it soon if I where you. Maybe you're able to get your hands on a working amp, and copy those roms....Eitherway it goes, I hope it works.

Good luck!

[buglitter]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hi Hi sparx_59,

My guess was accurate! Yesterday I decided to do a ROM dump, and both ROMs read and verified OK. A closer look at the chip revealed evidence of oxidation, so I decided to clean them up with ether. After securing them back into the sockets, the receiver works as suppose to. I've spent more than 4 hours testing all functions, using different sources, ie. DD, DTS, 5.1 External Analog, 2CH analog. They all work!!! As this point, I conclude that oxidation to the flash IC has caused problems related to DSP audio processing.

While working on this receiver, I've noticed evidence of high temp, but I didn't find any cold solder joints or cracks. Hence I'm 99.9% sure of my conclusion. I've already saved the ROM (just in case), but still can't find a US source for the replacement ICs. Aliexpress (China source) has them, but possessively they're counterfeits.