Best ESR meter/What to look for

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

You never answer my and the other members Questions ...

Possibly you are not ready to evaluate properly my answers.
Try to read them again in 10 years from now.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

If the company is too lazy to publish the ESR number ............ I sure like to see the example of the company that publish the Q factor only on their electrolytic caps so I can put them on no-buy list. Please give me that company name.

The company name is not important, what it is important is the question of which is the age of the electronics that you are trying to repair.
By this start point it is possible your inquiry for a datasheet to drive you in a capacitors manufacturer that he was not using the ESR parameter as comparison point.

The saying: Better prepared than sorry .. it is international

The modern LCR meters are capable to offer all parameters by a single measurement, therefore you are prepared to diagnose any type of capacitor, no matter the given parameters by it vendor.

The replacement capacitors it is your choice, the capacitors that you will discover in every electronic device is some ones else choice.
Simple as that.

[neuron]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

Lots of generic theory but every one looks to avoid the two 1 million dollars questions.

a) What do you do when the capacitor manufacturer specifies a high test frequency that your budget tools can not produce.

b) What if the given parameter is the Q value instead of ESR?

I bet that in both cases you are scratching your heads and accusing your bad luck.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH THIS IS VERY FUNNY.

You never answer my and the other members Questions ... and now you post Q. this is hilarant.

"I am a 44 years old ( old fart ) and math never was my strong point ..."

Strange and you test equip ... or you repair ? And the report ... someone write in your city?

You need some background (Phase angle θ, Q, D, Z, DCR, ESR) to test equip. and confirm!!!



And now I would like YOUR ANSWER TO MY Q.:

1 - All the equip. referred in this topic is 0,01 Ohm -> 40, 30 or 100. (Blue, Peak, etc)
So please tell me the equip.
I have one 0,001 - MOhm, but is very expensive

2 - I test lots of equip. PSU, etc ... and the only equip that have < 0,01 is Motherboards ... and when the cap. is bad is > 0,01 Ohm,

3 - This topics is about ESR with a small $ ... not 2000 € or 3000€ LCR Equip. ... or its is?

But you could recommend a 50, 80 € ESR ...

Best Regards,

Ruy

[budm]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

If the company is too lazy to publish the ESR number (or ESL) which they have to measure and also measure the capacitance to calculate the Xc to calculate the Q result, that company will not be on my recommend part supplier. I sure like to see the example of the company that publish the Q factor only on their electrolytic caps so I can put them on no-buy list. Please give me that company name.
What LCR meter are you using, does it do the Q calculation? I am sure it will at least do the Q for the L. How do you like your LCR meter so far?
We use QuadTech LCR at QC.
BTW, I am 59 and never use age as excuse not to learn math. Even simple math comes in handy for troubleshooting problem.
BTW, you do not measure the Q directly, you calculate the Q from known measured ESR and the calculated Xc form the measured capacitance, then you plug in the numbers for calculation by the machine (so the machine has to be able to read C (and calculate out the Xc) and ESR @ specicified freq.
Same thing when I check the Q of the inductor.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

Q = Xc/Rc, easy enough to calculate. @47 Ohms ESR, Q =???? ANY ONE?

I am a 44 years old ( old fart ) and math never was my strong point, this is why I feel much better with the portable LCR at hand.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

Who the hell measures the Q factor of a capacitor?

God and angels somewhere in China mainland.

[budm]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

Q = Xc/Rc, easy enough to calculate. @47 Ohms ESR, Q =???? ANYONE?

DF, TAN, LEAKAGE, RIPPLE CURRENT, ESL,BREAKDOWN VOLTAGE, ETC?
We have incoming QC dept. that do nothing by verify incoming parts and material before I put the parts in my products design.

[tom66]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

Who the hell measures the Q factor of a capacitor?
Every capacitor datasheet I have seen specifies 100Hz, 120Hz or 100kHz test frequency - please give an example of an electrolytic capacitor which does not conform to this? (Non electrolytic doesn't count, because ESR testing isn't done for those.)

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

Lots of generic theory but every one looks to avoid the two 1 million dollars questions.

a) What do you do when the capacitor manufacturer specifies a high test frequency that your budget tools can not produce.

b) What if the given parameter is the Q value instead of ESR?

I bet that in both cases you are scratching your heads and accusing your bad luck.

[budm]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

@misterkeeks, not sure where you are at in IOWA,
http://midwestelectronicrecovery.com/

I Google "electronics recycle in iowa"
You can also check the accuracy of the ESR meter by using 1% or even 0.1% resistor such as 1 Ohm, 5 Ohms, ect. to check the reading, ESR meter is just an AC Ohm meter.

[Misterkeeks]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

My Peak ESR70 hasn't failed me yet. If a cap is >40 ohms it's obviously bad (or 20 ohms if you have an older ESR60 model). It also kills two birds with one stone and can measure capacitance (it says 1uF, but it works down to about 0.82uF) without the need for another device. Of course, you might want an additional capacitance meter for really small caps (e.g. ceramic caps).

I'll look into that if/when I decide to upgrade to more expensive equipment.

[Misterkeeks]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

So you pull out that cap, it shows 5 Ohms ESR, what else do you need to know? Put in that PANASONIC cap and you are good to go knowing you even putting in better quality cap than the one that the factory puts in in the first place, so far I no return repair units back from customer/donation receiver due to fail caps I replace, is a good real world test on these PANASONIC caps.

Here is a guy from Oman that does not have lots of expensive equipment but able to save another electronics from land fill. When the meter tells you you have 47 Ohms ESR, what do you do? Do you care if the meter show 47.00 Ohms instead of 47.000 Ohms? Will some one tell you that 47.00 Ohms reading is not accurate enough? Will you care when you check your car batteries with your DMM and it shows 9.00V not 9.000V? Are you going to say, oh I cannot trust that reading of 9.00V?

Exactly what I have been trying (and failing) to say all thread. Thank you.

These pictures are from what I work on every Saturday as the volunteer at the electronics recycle place (CRC.ORG)

How did you find out about that? I've been looking around and I haven't really seen anything like it in Iowa.

[budm]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

To me for most people that works on mother board, monitor, TV: the bottom line is to find out the cap that you pull off the board has high ESR compare to what we use as the replacement caps (PANASONIC FM./FR/FC series, you can use FR ESR # as the ref. point), you will find out that most failed cap will show more than 1 Ohms (the bad one will usually shows >3 Ohms and up. Then you will already know you have bad caps, no need to test for leakage, or capacitance since it already has one bad parameter already.
The regulator IC 1117 series used in the main board can accept the cap with ESR as high as 0.50 Ohms.
""APPLICATIONS INFORMATION
Figure 1 shows the basic hookup diagram for fixed-voltage
models. All models require an output capacitor for proper
operation, and for improving high-frequency load
regulation; a 10μF tantalum capacitor is recommended.
Aluminum electrolytic types of 50μF or greater can also be
used. A high-quality capacitor should be used to assure
that the ESR (Effective Series Resistance) is less than
0.5Ω."
So if you are not the incoming QC guy that need to verify the cap parameter (you will need meter that can do more than ESR checking, how many people here works as the QC guy? or even check any replacement components when you receive them from suppliers, or verify that they are not faked parts?) then the $50 range ESR meter will be more than enough for you to verify what you suspecting to be bad. I use SENCORE LC75, my home made ESR, hair dryer to locate bad caps, even Frequency function to locate bad caps. When you work in real world on so many equipment, you will know how to tell what is good what is bad.
I do not know how many people in bad caps repair as many pieces of equipment and replace as many bad caps as I do in 2 years.
See the pictures of the bag of bad caps. and how I use DMM, ESR meter to locate bad caps.
ESR meter, DMM, Hair dryer are part of my tools.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31410

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...ghlight=al2416

These pictures are from what I work on every Saturday as the volunteer at the electronics recycle place (CRC.ORG), they are from about 3 years worth of works (I started taking pictures so other people can see what are inside the sets). How many people here repair that much one day a week every week. I have been doing volunteer work since 1995?
http://s807.photobucket.com/user/bud...?sort=2&page=1

So you pull out that cap, it shows 5 Ohms ESR, what else do you need to know? Put in that PANASONIC cap and you are good to go knowing you even putting in better quality cap than the one that the factory puts in in the first place, so far I no return repair units back from customer/donation receiver due to fail caps I replace, is a good real world test on these PANASONIC caps.

Here is a guy from Oman that does not have lots of expensive equipment but able to save another electronics from land fill. When the meter tells you you have 47 Ohms ESR, what do you do? Do you care if the meter show 47.00 Ohms instead of 47.000 Ohms? Will some one tell you that 47.00 Ohms reading is not accurate enough? Will you care when you check your car batteries with your DMM and it shows 9.00V not 9.000V? Are you going to say, oh I cannot trust that reading of 9.00V?

[Heihachi_73]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

My Peak ESR70 hasn't failed me yet. If a cap is >40 ohms it's obviously bad (or 20 ohms if you have an older ESR60 model). It also kills two birds with one stone and can measure capacitance (it says 1uF, but it works down to about 0.82uF) without the need for another device. Of course, you might want an additional capacitance meter for really small caps (e.g. ceramic caps).

[Misterkeeks]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

I work in the aviation industry where every piece of test equipment either large or small needs to be regularly calibrated to a known very high standard. With this in mind I bought a Peak meter for my own use (mainly to check caps in place that do not look obviously bad) and to check this cheaper meter so that I can recommend it when I re-sell it if it is accurate.

And is it accurate?

[phildan]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

I work in the aviation industry where every piece of test equipment either large or small needs to be regularly calibrated to a known very high standard. With this in mind I bought a Peak meter for my own use (mainly to check caps in place that do not look obviously bad) and to check this cheaper meter so that I can recommend it when I re-sell it if it is accurate.

[Misterkeeks]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

Download randomly 10 datasheets of 105C capacitors from randomly selected manufacturers, and investigate them, this homework it will expand your horizon.
If those new data fail to update your point of view, it translates that you are not ready to deal with this subject.

Here is the PANASONIC FR series spec

I don't see any values below 0.01 on that datasheet.

[Misterkeeks]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

My recommendation goes only in what is considered as capable to serve it purpose in full.

I do not set my rules in Electronics industry, neither any one can, in summary if you stop playing with hobby tools, you have just made the first step in the right direction.

There is nothing wrong with using hobby tools if they meet your needs.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

But you could recommend a 50, 80 € ESR ...

My recommendation goes only in what is considered as capable to serve it purpose in full.

I do not set my rules in Electronics industry, neither any one can, in summary if you stop playing with hobby tools, you have just made the first step in the right direction.

[neuron]

Re: Best ESR meter/What to look for

Before 20 years it was great, now belong to museum.

1 - All the equip. referred in this topic is 0,01 Ohm -> 40, 30 or 100. (Blue, Peak, etc)
So please tell me the equip.
I have one 0,001 - MOhm, but is very expensive

2 - I test lots of equip. PSU, etc ... and the only equip that have < 0,01 is Motherboards ... and when the cap. is bad is > 0,01 Ohm,

3 - This topics is about ESR with a small $ ... not 2000 € or 3000€ LCR Equip. ... or its is?

But you could recommend a 50, 80 € ESR ...

Best Regards,

Ruy