Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

[y_not]

I have read piles of reviews and praises for the Hakko 808, it rocks!
This we know.

Now here's what I'm wondering and can find NO INFO on the matter.

What sort of difference is there compared to the station based units, where in the vacuum pump is separate from the hand held iron.
Ex. Hakko 470/472 series.

I'm not talking about the new yellow+blue models, those are way out of my league in price.

Performance and maintenance wise, do they require less maintenance in regards to taking apart the pump when the filter lets something through, better filtering, better suction, more power, better solder disposal & cleaning, more heat, faster tip recovery time, etc...

I see that the vacuum pressure is the same, the only difference is the liters/min are a little higher on the stations.
That tells me it's a more powerful pump, but at the same pressure? *confused*

Any who have had a chance to use both, or can at least comment on the stations alone, please let me know your thoughts on the matter.

Thx.

[y_not]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

Not many, or any users of stations, huh?

I dug this up yesterday.
http://www.howardelectronics.com/den-on/sc7000.html
It's a bit outside of my price range, but they do have an inhouse refurbished $250 unit.
It's said this far outshines the stations, being that the pump has such a short distance between it and the nozzle.
I found a tech that said some of the vacuum desoldering stations have a design that makes it so there's always vacuum pressure ready & waiting, as it stops it off in high vacuum at the wand. Thus, on the next joint, the pump doesn't have to suck all the air out of the line between it and the station before having full vacuum at the tip.

Any truth to this matter? Is he referring to the Hakko stations? It sounds like the Ungar, Pace & even some of the Weller stations are utterly HORRID!! Either having poor performance, or they just break down a lot. No one ever mentions this about the Hakko stations. But they don't say otherwise either.

In that same thread, it was stated that this Den-on struggled on multilayer boards or just wouldn't do them. Whereas the Hakko 808 did them just fine. But it seemed loose to me and unfounded. IE. A user that didn't know their stuff.

Plus, with its reversible pump switch, it can do SMD hot-air work too!!
Not to mention, it sounds like it has an absolutely superior design when it comes to filter longevity, since it doesn't clog it up with solder, only fumes.
I'm wondering if this is what really separate the Hakko stations from the self contained unit.

Anyone used it?
Of course I'd love to hear some 1st hand accounts of it.
Spit-ballin' is good too... chime in!

Thanks everyone!!

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

I have the DEN-ON brother model of the 7000,
it is an very old design capable to handle single layer PCB and throw hole desoldering.
The pump is noisee and not powerful enough as needed to handle a five layers PCB just with hot air.

You need to find an more modern tool than that.
Yes it is made in Japan and with a cost around 1000$ USD as new, and so what?

It does not come even close to a modern rework Air station.

[y_not]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

I have the DEN-ON brother model of the 7000,
it is an very old design capable to handle single layer PCB and throw hole desoldering.
The pump is noisee and not powerful enough as needed to handle a five layers PCB just with hot air.

Is it the SC5000?
The newer one I linked to doesn't use hot air to do the vacuum desoldering. It uses a ceramic heater core iron /w a hot, hollow tip connected to a "vacuum" pump. Which, when activated, sucks the molten solder into the chamber and yadda yadda.
You can however reverse the vacuum pump to blow out, instead of suck in.

You need to find an more modern tool than that.
Yes it is made in Japan and with a cost around 1000$ USD as new, and so what?

As far as I know, they're still manufacturing them. It's pump specs are on-par with the Hakko stations, which exceed the specs of the Hakko 808 self contained unit.
It's a $400 tool, not $1k. True, cost doesn't necessarily indicate performance or quality. I just felt that it had some design aspects worth looking at.

It does not come even close to a modern rework Air station.

The one you have, or this one?
Yeah, I wouldn't think it'd be "as good", but I figured it'd be close enough for basic things like pulling off small BGA chips, not big ones like GPUs or NBs but like bga ram. Pulling off multi-leg "non BGA" ram chips and the like.
Nothing hugely fancy ya know.
"Multi-Use" tools are seldom ever as good as a stand alone tool designed for the job. Just figure if it's there, it'd be nice to have it for use here & there.
Not my main buying consideration decision for the unit whatsoever. I have stated those above. One user did state that it was a great feature to use just for clearing out the molten solder in the tip alone.

I wasn't planning on hot air heating through hole components to de-solder them. That's why it has a vacuum pump for that, which is what you should use for the job. I know one tech did 35,000 some odd joints on a massive mixing board /w over 2200 switches.
It only took him 20 minutes!! That'd mean he didn't even have to change the filter. I would presume.
#16 - end of post.
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?PH...&topic=49876.0

It's not like I plan on re-flowing an Xbox GPU or something with it. I know only a good, non-chinese made station will do that.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

If you have not test the tool ... you are unable to speak about performance.

Enjoy the view.

[smason]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

I have read piles of reviews and praises for the Hakko 808, it rocks!
This we know.

The 808 is $300.00 at the local shop here
I'll be in California next week, I may nab one at Fry's for $180. (they want $70.00 to ship, so I'll pick it up)

[y_not]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

You can get it for that new on Amazon /w free freight. No stand, however there is a sock included. As I understand it, the stands become rather topheavy with the large unwieldy gun in it. It has been suggested to put a heavy weight on the base of the metal, tan colored, Hakko stand. Or bolt it to the bench. Problem solved.

[smason]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

You can get it for that new on Amazon /w free freight.

Not to Canada. All I ever get from Amazon.com is:
" We're sorry. This item can't be shipped to your selected destination. You may either change the shipping address or delete the item from your order. "

And from Amazon.ca:

Hakko Desoldering Kit, With 808 Gun, 120 VAC

CDN$ 301.99
Usually ships in 6 to 10 days
More buying choices
CDN$ 301.99 new "

Nice deal!

[y_not]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

If you have not test the tool ... you are unable to speak about performance.

I'm sorry, but I don't see anywhere in my posts in which is spoke of my own personal experience with any of the products. Only what I'd read others say in regards to them.

That's definitely the previous generation model, of which I can find no information.
Have you used any other vacuum desoldering units? Whether owned by you or not. If so what were they and what sort of experience did you have with them?

[y_not]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

Not to Canada. All I ever get from Amazon.com is:
"We're sorry. This item can't be shipped to your selected destination. You may either change the shipping address or delete the item from your order."

How LAME!
Use a freight forwarding service. Boom, problem solved.

[mariushm]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

US Hakko distributor on eBay:

http://stores.ebay.com/NEI-Lamps-and...=p4634.c0.m322

178$ or more + (I think) 42$ shipping to canada

[capkid]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

The 808 is $300.00 at the local shop here
I'll be in California next week, I may nab one at Fry's for $180. (they want $70.00 to ship, so I'll pick it up)

I got my 808 on eBay for $179, including shipping from this seller: www*bdent*com. I've bought several items from them, so they appear to be very reputable.

Edit: Duh, I saw you're in Canada. It doesn't look like they ship there.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

I'm sorry, but I don't see anywhere in my posts in which is spoke of my own personal experience with any of the products. Only what I'd read others say in regards to them.

That's definitely the previous generation model, of which I can find no information.
Have you used any other vacuum desoldering units? Whether owned by you or not. If so what were they and what sort of experience did you have with them?

All that I am trying to do, is to protect you from getting something that it will not work.
This is a hand tool, the pump is tiny, no matter the model as 5000 or 7000, the pump in those dedicated hot air stations is double or triple in size.

Yes I have use recently a Hot air station which it was doing miracles regarding performance, the lesson that I got from it is to select my own among the ones with analog temperature controls.

[Agent24]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

All that I am trying to do, is to protect you from getting something that it will not work.
This is a hand tool, the pump is tiny, no matter the model as 5000 or 7000, the pump in those dedicated hot air stations is double or triple in size.

Yes I have use recently a Hot air station which it was doing miracles regarding performance, the lesson that I got from it is to select my own among the ones with analog temperature controls.

I have an SC5000 also. It works quite well on multilayer boards if I preheat the board with hot air first.

What I do not like though is that since the pump is in the handle it vibrates through to the work and can cause damage to the board more easily.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

Well @y_not made me to have a second look on my SC5000 prior giving my reply above.

I did take out for a first time in my life this 1.5mm copper noose and the about 10cm long tube came out too.
My finding was that the on-board wire ( cleaner for the noose) it very thin and incapable to clean sufficiently the tube where the air moves.
I did clean it up by entering an 1.5mm drill bit.
After restoring the air flow I did run some tests, but I got disappointed again.
It can heat up one solder blob and make it soft regarding melting, but it has no power to move the solder away from the PCB.
In the best scenario you are using the metal noose to heat up the solder, and you may use the air just to push and clean the PCB hole and that's it.

I have one Nvidia VGA which has a cap that needs replacement, the SC5000 even by been clean as new it was incapable to do the magic.
My feelings about it due the fact that I own it for two decades, is that due the new multi-layer PCB,s this tools has lost it practical value.

Preheat with another hot air tool and then with the SC5000 it is like using two cars at once with just a single driver = extra trouble.

[Agent24]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

I got disappointed again.
It can heat up one solder blob and make it soft regarding melting, but it has no power to move the solder away from the PCB.

It sounds like maybe you did not really get a full melt. I followed the procedure I saw here: http://youtu.be/e8KRPFOD1RE - moving the tip around to check that the lead is loose.

On multilayer boards, the trick is getting the feel for when the lead comes totally 'free' in the hole and not just half-way. There is a difference but it's small. I am still getting the hang of it. Thick\wide leads in small holes usually feel different.

Preheat with another hot air tool and then with the SC5000 it is like using two cars at once with just a single driver = extra trouble.

I don't know if it's the best solution, but it does seem to work. Just have to be careful not to overheat the board, I have lifted some pads being too aggressive with the hot air before. You have to preheat for longer on the big copper planes.

I see on 'proper' pre-heater stations (Hot air or IR), they all have a thermocouple you are supposed to use to keep the board temperature in check. These would probably be a better idea.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

Thanks for the video @Agent24 it did remind me the old good days.

[int0x13]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

Thanks for the video @Agent24 it did remind me the old good days.

I discovered those video from company PACE and they are really a reference to learn the soldering. I wish i would see them 10 years ago!!!
Are them really from the 1980's ?!!!

[Agent24]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

Are them really from the 1980's ?!!!

They sure look like it to me

[japlytic]

Re: Hakko vacuum desoldering - Stations vs. Self Contained 808

I prefer an all-in-one unit, since the station can have a bit of lag.