ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

[Huckfinn]

Just a few helpful bits of info for all of you electronics newbies struggling with trying to determine if an electrolytic capacitor that looks physically perfect is really OK in a circuit.

I have been doing electronic repairs since 1974, and I would have really benefited long ago from owning a nice ESR meter like the BOB PARKER unit. I now own the newest Blue version of the 3 Bob Parker units available:
1] Dick Smith Electronics version - limited availability on used market
2] EVB Unit, Bob Parker improved design from Portugal, available
3] Anatek Blue Bob Parker latest design available as kit OR assembled

A little disclaimer is in order here. I do not personally know Bob Parker. I do not personally know John Bachman or any of the other fine folks at Anatek. I am just a customer to them. I do not sell ESR meters and I do not get any commission from the sale of Blue ESR meters by Anatek or anyone else for that matter.

That all having been declared, on to the good info stuff.
I have in the recent past repaired much more than just motherboards [CT scanners, MRI scanners, & all kinds of other good stuff].

FACTS [obviously as seen by me]:

1] The Bob Parker Blue meter is the most fantastic ESR meter I have ever used [and I have used a bunch of them]

2] At $79.00 for the kit or $119.00 fully assembled and calibrated, the Blue ESR mater is a PHENOMENAL bargain.[Please do not PM me and complain that while you decided to work on electronics, motherboards, and other such tech clap trap, $119.00 plus S&H would put you on the streets with the homeless, break your budget, make you poor, etc... and so on.... I know....yes, I know, been there and done that. At times, life is tough]

3] The Blue ESR meter also makes an excellent low cost tracer to find PC board shorts.[If you want a REAL example of an "expensive" piece of test gear for measuring ESR, go to the web site for Sencore Electronics and feast your baby blues on the Sencore LC103 Rezolver for $2,495.00]

4] Bob Parker is a very talented guy. If you don't belive me, go to his web site and read all of the extensive electronics information goodies he has to give your way just for a little reading time, no membership fee required. I am amazed that he even bothers to respond to some of the threads "banter" that is tossed his way regarding his excellent meter. If Bob [and Anatek] truly charged even half of what that Blue meter is really worth, a whole lot less of us would be able to afford it.[I know....I know.... some of you "can't" afford it now]

5] Believe it or not, the purpose of my new forum thread here is not to sell blue ESR meters or to ensure that Anatek stays in business [although I hope that they do really well, because they are very good at what they do]. The purpose of this thread is to let young and/or new techs and others who appreciate the finer and more esoteric aspects of electronics know that as one who has been there and done the cheap test equipment and cheap tools routine, I highly recommend that you get the best equipment that you can under your own circumstances, and that is it for now.

Huck

[Bob Parker]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

Ummm ... I don't know what to write. Thanks enormously for all your nice words about the ESR meter, my website and everything.

Your posting makes up for some very negative comments posted here a while back by the only person on this forum I've 'killfiled' and who thinks that I personally am selling overpriced ESR meters with a bunch of frivolous functions. Now he'll assume that I paid you to write that post, when in reality I don't think we've ever been contact before now.

The fact is that back in 1995 I desperately needed an ESR meter for my own electronic repairs, mainly switching power supplies. I couldn't find any in Australia so I had to design my own from scratch. It turned out to be so useful that the design went public and a few companies started making and selling kits for it. I've never sold the kits, and the meter's features are the features I myself wanted, to make it easy for me to use.

Thanks again for your thoughts - very muchly appreciated!

Bob in Australia

[Krankshaft]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

I remember when I really wanted one of these ESR meters and DS stopped selling them. Luckily Anatek released a new one and IMO it's much sleeker and better looking than the boxy DS unit.

I'm glad I waited and didn't buy an old DS unit the red LED display is too ordinary and standard the blue LED display looks much cooler and the case is more up to date and fits comfortably in your hand .

Recently around June of 08 I think Anatek released another Bob Parker unit I wanted the Transformer Ring Tester I scooped that one up quick . A very quick way to rule out bad LCD inverter transformers.

Your posting makes up for some very negative comments posted here a while back by the only person on this forum I've 'killfiled' and who thinks that I personally am selling overpriced ESR meters with a bunch of frivolous functions.

Yeah I remember that I stayed out of it better off letting a fire burn out rather then throwing more gas on it.

Anyhow I'm glad that your meters are back.

[Huckfinn]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

Bob:

I am pleased and honored that you took the time to personally view my thread and send such a meaningful reply. I printed your post and it is going in a nice frame. Your meter as well as your very well done informational website are a substantial service to many people that work with electronics for a career or electronics as a very rewarding hobby. The members of this forum, myself included, are privileged to have an electronics legend of our time tutoring us personally.

Huck

[willawake]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

there was nothing wrong with the previous meters, but the blue esr meter with its nice design and strong case should be working great after many years. the kit is well within the reach of building properly by anybody with a little interest in electronics and with ok soldering skills.

i did a short review a while back
http://www.capacitorlab.com/anatek-b...eter/index.htm

its not a mass market product so they would not be able to take advantage of the cost savings in producing a huge amount of units. price seems fair but i do like fine tools rather than cheap shit.

[kc8adu]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

i have several of the early ones i assembled from kits.
they are still working fine even after trips to a concrete floor.
these are the "ea" ones.

[Bob Parker]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

Gee Willawake, you look like you could really use a beer!!

Thanks for all your constructive comments there Krankshaft. The Anatek Blue meter is physically an improvement over the Dick Smith versions, but functionally it's identical except in relation to the battery. So to anyone who's got a Dick Smith meter, don't feel in any way jealous.

[i4004]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

ah, there's a bit of misunderatanding going on here about my comments in this
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...0&page=1&pp=20
thread.

my main objective was the price, because original poster said it's too steep for him.
if he didn't say that i think i too would suggest anatek blue. you'll notice that in the end he bought somewhat cheaper unit and it was not a kit.

as for me, let me give you my opinion: 80$ for the kit is good price, and if it was available here i probably wouldn't be building diy project to boot.
while buying that, i would also get http://www.anatekcorp.com/bluert.htm because it seems to be good device to test trafo, which can be a bitch to test...also, it's cheap..i would probably even pay twice for that device.
heck if it was available i would ALSO buy esr meter volto bought!
just to compare readings on the 2 esr meters. it would still be less than 200$ and i would consider that a good price for 2 esr meters and a trafo tester.

but because it's not available, and because i hate paying high shipping costs, and because i don't have easy means to pay over the internet, i've built my own and it's good unit that satisfies me.
(but that doesn't mean i won't get digital readout esr meter in the future...just for fun..)

so no bob, i don't have anything against your design, or people making kits of it etc.
quite the opposite. it's just that original poster searched for cheaper option.
it seems now that he didn't really wanna solder, so 120$ for the assembled kit was too much for him.
(if i had to pick between
http://cgi.ebay.com/Esr-Meter-Capaci...1%7C240%3A1318
and blue esr, i would pick blue esr, because 10$ is small difference but le display is much more usefull than lcd...
and again, if they both were available here i would have both... )

[Huckfinn]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

Willawake:

It was your review that finalized my decision to buy the Blue ESR meter. And by the way, NICE job on your Capacitorlab.com site. The large clear color photos really go well with your informative text. I joined Badcaps.net Forums as a result of viewing your Capacitorlab.com site; and I found your site using Google while researching the ESR issues that we techs are experiencing now.

Regards,

Huck

[glen65]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

This is the first time Ive seen this particular meter.
The one I see pop up the most is the B&K 881.

[Bob Parker]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

This is the first time Ive seen this particular meter.
The one I see pop up the most is the B&K 881.

There are lots of ESR meters around now, like the Capacitor Wizard and Peak Atlas etc etc. There's a comparison of some of them on the Anatek website at http://www.anatekcorp.com/esr_compare.htm

[Huckfinn]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

Glen65:

The B&K 881 is an ESR tester that has no digital readout, but rather uses a stack of leds vertically in a "thermometer" style display. In using those, I found that they are not as convenient as a nice large digital readout. The 881 will mesure ESR from .1 to 30 ohms. The Anatek unit will measure ESR in 3 auto switched ranges from .01 to 99 ohms, and this is displayed on a rather large and easy to read blue 2 digit display complete with the corresponding auto adjusted decimal point which is huge, bright, and very readable [as compared to some meters I own where I have to squint to see where in the world the decimal point is]. The B&K sells for $210.00 plus S&H. The Anatek in ready-to-rock assembled and calibrated version sells for $119.00 plus S&H. I can tell you from personal experience that the Anatek Blue unit "blows the doors" off the B&K 881 unit. I am NOT saying that the 881 is not a real nice unit. The 881 IS a real nice unit. The Anatek unit is just MUCH better. An additional point to consider is that the B&K 881 will discharge charged capacitors for you . With the Anatek unit, you need to either manually discharge caps or plug into a discharge harness with 2 diodes. In this case, the advantage also goes to Anatek. This is because the Anatek system allows you to measure internal impedence [battery ESR] of cells and battery packs.[A very useful feature!] The B&K 881 can not be used to measure battery ESR.

Huck

[Huckfinn]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

A question for volto or any other member who bought the Hungarian built "BadCaps" ESR meter:

Did you receive your meter yet, and if so, how do you like it?

Huck

[PCBONEZ]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

Like most of the Go-no-Go checkers the B&K 881 only goes down to 0.100 ohms.

That's not low enough a range for most caps used on motherboards where ESR is often in the .010 to .040 Ohm range.

Same applies to those that have an analog meter or connect to an analoge multi-meter. Their range isn't low enough.

.

[Bob Parker]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

Like most of the Go-no-Go checkers the B&K 881 only goes down to 0.100 ohms.

That's not low enough a range for most caps used on motherboards where ESR is often in the .010 to .040 Ohm range.

Same applies to those that have an analog meter or connect to an analoge multi-meter. Their range isn't low enough.

.

I agree. The ESR of good power supply filtering caps and many used in TV deflection circuits etc etc is well below 0.1 ohms. An ESR meter which doesn't have reasonable resolution in that range is fairly limited in its usefulness.

[i4004]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

>That's not low enough a range for most caps used on motherboards where ESR is often in the .010 to .040 Ohm range.
Same applies to those that have an analog meter or connect to an analoge multi-meter. Their range isn't low enough.

well, it isn't enough if that makes any difference.
ie if caps on the mobo has 0.010, 0.040, 0.080 or 0.100....

otoh, if it starts to influence stability only after it reaches, say, 0.300, or 0.600 or even 1 ohm, then it's precise enough...
(ie you're not checking if the cap is good, but if it's bad...and when it's bad esr goes up a lot...)

offcourse, having more precision won't hurt...

analog meter can reach such precision if you compare, for example, good cap with 0.010 with bad cap with 0.050ohm
as scale is usually pretty stretched on lower ohms so even such difference will be visible...

offcourse, things go bad on much higher esr...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

A cap that's supposed to be at .010 or .005 and is at .050 is 5x to 10x normal and would still show as good on an analog meter or a go-no-go checker.

5x to 10x normal isn't acceptable to me because even if it's still working it's well on it's way to a failure and I don't like redoing the same work over and over.

.

[i4004]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

fair enough

[KeriJane]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

OK, OK, OK, OK....

I sent out for a Blue ESR meter kit. This kinda put a cramp in my style for a week or two but I'll survive.

Maybe if I can put it together OK I can read some ESR soon.
I wish that I had it a couple of days ago when I recapped that Shuttle thing.

I was really tempted by the analog ESR meter they offer, but the Blue one seems to have the favor around here.


Have Fun,
Keri

[sofTest]

Re: ESR meters and the Bob Parker unit revisited

There are lots of ESR meters around now, like the Capacitor Wizard and Peak Atlas etc etc. There's a comparison of some of them on the Anatek website at http://www.anatekcorp.com/esr_compare.htm

I've been considering buying an ESR meter for some time, but since I don't to a lot of electronics work, I haven't been sure for cost/benefit. Lately I've bought some capacitors off eBay that I would like check for fake before I put them to use, so I was about to order the Blue Kit Friday evening, when I came across this comparison. I had a look at the EVB site and found that the fully assembled and calibrated unit now was priced at only €50 (US$65), and had now a new voltage regulator for longer battery time. The EVB kit is only €40. You have to buy the probes with leads elsewhere though, but probes is an accessory with the Blue unit also. I couldn't see any significant reason to shell out more for the Blue unit, and the shipping was also lower, so I put in an order for the EVB unit. If someone else is considering these units, this updated info might be of interest.