Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

[washu]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Wouldn't xp support ALL parallel printers? Usb things without drivers don't work, I figure SOME driver will work for any parallel printer if forced. If it used some ancient card for connectivity then yes, XP might have obsoleted it.

The whole printer claim reeks of BS. Windows XP "dropped support for that style of printer"? BS. What "style"? A laser printer should work fine, even an obscure one. Model # please. If NEC was lazy and didn't write drivers that's one thing, but XP did not drop support for any "style" of printer.

[KeriJane]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

The nvidia tesla does not have a processor like a Intel or AMD. It uses nvidia graphics cards as processors using CUDA. Thats why the baseline tesla has 960 cores.

OK. Is that like something called "Open CL"?

This latest SUPERIOR Operating System from Apple has something called "Open CL" in it so as to allow Snow Leopard to utilize Video Card processors for other purposes. Is that the same general idea? Keep in mind that one could put up to four video cards in a Mac Pro. The newest Apple video cards from nVidia look an awful lot like the Tesla ones. Is it the same principle?

Or are these Tesla systems completely without a CPU and run entirely on GPU?

The whole printer claim reeks of BS. Windows XP "dropped support for that style of printer"? BS. What "style"? A laser printer should work fine, even an obscure one. Model # please. If NEC was lazy and didn't write drivers that's one thing, but XP did not drop support for any "style" of printer.

OK, it was an NEC Superscript 660, I think. Might have been a 661 or something. Anyhow, this was back when XP came out.
Naturally I tried to find drivers. No help from NEC on the then fairly new printer.
So then I went about trying to find out why.
Somebody, somewhere had posted the "BS" as you put it and I came across it and read it. I held onto the printer for a few years before getting rid of it.

It wasn't that great of a printer anyhow.



Have Fun,
Keri

PS. To those on the offensive against Apple:
Have you actually used a Mac lately? or opened up something newer than a G5?
I do not ask this with hostile intent or to flame anyone.

Personally, I try to avoid offering opinions on something that I don't have direct experience with. My low opinion of Microsoft is based upon years of experience then finding something that I feel is better.

[370forlife]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Yup, entirely GPU based.

the tesla cards are a mix, depends on which you get. Most are modified gtx280's.

[Topcat]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

PS. To those on the offensive against Apple:
Have you actually used a Mac lately? or opened up something newer than a G5?
I do not ask this with hostile intent or to flame anyone.

Well, I beg to differ that MacOS is superior in any way. Its a good OS, and like ALL operating systems (Linux, Unix, MacOS, Windows, and so on), it has its place in the whole realm of computing. I have a Mac, and it is, like I said before, pretty much a cute toy on my desk right now. I've experimented with quite a few things, found some things to be superior to Windows, and found other areas to be substantially lacking. I don't share any of the stereotypical hatred toward a Mac or MacOS, I just don't think its any more superior than say, Windows XP. Yes, they're fairly immune to viruses and spyware, but even on a windows PC, if you know what you're doing (which most here do, we have a good PC-educated following here), malware isn't really an issue to Windows either. I mean really, stay off the porn sites and russian warez sites, and you tend to avoid malware.

I'm no big Microsoft junkie, but Windows 2000 and XP were very well written, stable, and streamline operating systems (especially windows 2000 when speaking of being streamlined). Windows Vista and Win7 are a completely different animal, I can't stand either of them, which is one of the reasons I took an active interest in MacOS to begin with.

[acstech]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

One of my customers has a Mac. It was a painful experience. Anything that particular unit does, it seems like my Netbook does faster (in OS-X no less). It has an Intel Core processor of some sort, but only 512MB ram! Then they try to run parallels so they can run XP applications so they can... wait for it... run their actual business applications. Which they ended up doing quite effectively, and quickly, on the PC that I built for them.

I do find OS-X interesting though, but annoying in some ways. Let's start with window resizing. If I want to resize a window in Windows or Linux, I can grab any side or corner and resize away. In Mac land, I have to grab the lower right resize thing. If I want to resize a window up and to the left, it's a two step process. Move, then resize. In Windows and Linux, one step.

The next annoying part is seeing what's running. In Windows and Linux, you have a taskbar. Boom. Right there. One glance down and you know exactly what the f*** is running. Plus, in Linux with Compiz (and in Vista and 7 I believe) you can do window previews, where you mouse over the title bar entry and it will show a shrunken version of that window before you even click it. In Mac land, who knows? If you've been using your computer for a while with several programs open, go to lunch, and come back, you're not going to have a clue what's running. All your programs are right down there in their dock... if you haven't minimized them, all you see is the one on top. No telling what's under it.

Next we have multiple desktops. Mac has Windows beat here being that it's an option (called spaces). But they haven't beaten Linux with Compiz Fusion. The way I have mine set up, I can go click the left edge of the screen, and view all 4 desktops on a rotating cube, which rotates with the mouse. Pretty handy for telling what's going on in the other desktops. The Mac has Expose when you assign it a screen corner, but it's still not a cube.

Lastly, IP configuration. I often switch my netbook between my home and other wireless networks. In Windows, I can specify an alternate configuration for the IP addressing so that if it doesn't get a DHCP address it will fall back to my static IP settings that I use at home. I do not know of a way to do this in OS-X. If there's a way, please, inform me. I couldn't find it. You can assign a location, but that still involves me going into System Preferences. I want it to be automatic

If you know of a way to make the Mac OS work the way I want it to, please, let me know.

[washu]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

OK. Is that like something called "Open CL"?

This latest SUPERIOR Operating System from Apple has something called "Open CL" in it so as to allow Snow Leopard to utilize Video Card processors for other purposes.

How is it superior to something both Windows and Linux have had for years? GPGPU stuff is relatively new, but OSX is the last to get it as usual.

OK, it was an NEC Superscript 660, I think. Might have been a 661 or something. Anyhow, this was back when XP came out.
Naturally I tried to find drivers. No help from NEC on the then fairly new printer.
So then I went about trying to find out why.
Somebody, somewhere had posted the "BS" as you put it and I came across it and read it. I held onto the printer for a few years before getting rid of it.

It wasn't that great of a printer anyhow.

The NEC 660 is a standard crappy GDI printer. Lots of them work fine in XP and later. This "style" still works fine, what you said was BS. NEC didn't release a driver. 100% NEC's fault, 0% Microsoft's fault.

Also, it was at least 4 years old by the time XP came out, hardly "fairly new". Apple's own Stylewriter 6500 was only 3 years old when OSX came out and it was dropped by the company that made it.

PS. To those on the offensive against Apple:
Have you actually used a Mac lately? or opened up something newer than a G5?
I do not ask this with hostile intent or to flame anyone.

Yes I have, we have several Intel Macs at work. Look at what I posted above. Lots of people are furious with their older Intel Minis because they can't play 1080p. Well, they can, in Windows or Linux. When Vista can do something on Apple's own hardware that OSX can not it looks pretty sad. Benchmark after benchmark has shown OSX is by far the slowest of the major OSes. So much for "superior"

I have a G5 and a few G3s as well and it's the same thing. Anything Video or performance related is much better under Linux then OSX. Yeah, the PowerPC is way slower then Apple claimed it was, but OSX makes it even worse.

You obviously know little about how OSes work. OSX does a have some good points, but there are lots of thing's that are completely brain-dead stupid under the hood. You might personally think the interface is superior, but the actual guts of OSX are average to crappy. It's not even close to being a superior OS

[ratdude747]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Well I build some pretty nice Linux computers that come with everything set up, including Compiz. Turn it on and go.

Nobody's out to get you Keri. We just like poking fun at Apple when they screw up. We fully expect it to come back when M$ screws up. You just happen to be the local Mac fan.

Oh, and the deal with those Tesla computers (druel) is that they do processing on GPU's, and have literally banks of GPU's lined up. Major processing power there, more than any Mac ever could hope to equal. Of course it's not x86, it's Nvidia CUDA, but still...

yeah, compiz kicks osx and windows aero out if the water. compiz is more effecient (runs on a p3 with radeon 7500 64mb no prob). and has multiple work spaces, better hotkeys, screen effects like painting fire, rain, does everything mac and aero do other than create a bloated slowdown.

i think about macs:

-3 beefs:

-too pricey
-os is hype, restrictive, and proprietary
-it took them around 20 years to make a mouse with more than 2 buttons to compete with microsoft/linux, and when they did, they overcomplicated it so a chorded click does not work and a scroll ball that is impossible to clean without voiding the warranty. still overpriced.

keri- you are entitled to your opinion, we are just discussing things here.

[KeriJane]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

yeah, compiz kicks osx and windows aero out if the water. compiz is more effecient (runs on a p3 with radeon 7500 64mb no prob). and has multiple work spaces, better hotkeys, screen effects like painting fire, rain, does everything mac and aero do other than create a bloated slowdown.

i think about macs:
-3 beefs:
-too pricey
-os is hype, restrictive, and proprietary
-it took them around 20 years to make a mouse with more than 2 buttons to compete with microsoft/linux, and when they did, they overcomplicated it so a chorded click does not work and a scroll ball that is impossible to clean without voiding the warranty. still overpriced.

Hi Ratdude!

Compiz may well be superior in every way as you say.
I lack the talent and inclination to use it effectively. I much prefer to go to the store and buy something that I can easily get programs and accessories for.
That leaves my choices as: Window or Mac.
I used Windows since 3.1. I agree with Topcat that XP was the best of what I consider to be a bad bunch.

To me, Mac OS is what Linux could be. A widely available, finished and popular UNIX based OS without most of Windows weaknesses. Is it perfect? No, but I feel that it's "Good Enough" and it does what I want. Leopard itself "crashed" precisely ONCE in about a year and a half of daily use.

Single-button mousing in Tiger goes very quickly once you get used to it. Nowdays, Mac OS supports nearly any mouse you'd care to plug in
I happen to like that tiny scroll-button which is easily cleaned without voiding the warranty by holding the mouse upside-down and spinning the ball. It allows very rapid scrolling in any direction, which I like. Just don't have dirty fingers and it goes quite a while. Sensitive to dirt? Yes. Annoying to clean? Yes. Will I use anything different? No. (I have several really nice alternatives right here and I prefer MightyMouse)

Did I have a Virus problem with Windows? Only once, and that was this year when my netbook got one on Day 2. No, I wasn't doing pron (duh!) or Russian Warez. At least not on purpose anyhow.
The PC's I fix for other people get all manner of Malware despite AV protection.

The problems I had with Windows, (even XP which was the best one) were mostly related to me being an Early Adopter and frequent Hardware /Software changes.
Windows does not uninstall programs and hardware drivers well either. Adding AV protection gunks things up even worse.

V(bleep!)sta's paranoid Activation scheme is what drove me to the Mac store . Every time I changed a RAID setting, "This software has been registered to another computer" and time to call my friends at the Activation Center... again...

I happen to like it here in the land of Mac. They have a (admittedly imperfect) history of innovation and an (equally imperfect) inexorable push onward. When my MacPro gets obsolete, (probably pretty soon now) I'll probably buy another.

Have fun,
Keri

PS. Macs are only "Pricey" compared to lower-end loss leader PCs. (ducks)

[washu]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Hi Ratdude!

Compiz may well be superior in every way as you say.

Compiz, Aero, and OSX's window system all do pretty much the same thing which is window composting. The difference is the cutoff point for each.

Microsoft made the choice, for better or worse, that composting had to be 100% in hardware or not at all. Aero has almost no CPU impact. RAM impact sure, but no CPU, and 7 fixed the RAM impact. I've run Vista on a P3 1 Ghz, and as long as there was a DX9 card in there Aero was perfect and smooth.

Compiz lets its composting work on cards that can't do 100% of the work and CPU does the rest. Sorry RatDude, while you are correct that an ATI 7500 will run Compiz, the CPU will be doing some of the work. Still, if your card can't at least do the majority of the heavy lifting Compiz won't run.

OSX is stupid. It runs composting no matter what your video hardware is. That means if your video card sucks then your CPU is doing 100% of the work and you are wasting tonnes of RAM for nothing. This is the main reason older versions of OSX were so slow. Newer versions have core image, which has the same requirements as Vista to work. If you don't have a core image capable card, your CPU is doing all the work and slowing you down. That's right, OSX needs Vista level hardware to not have massive slowdowns in it's video system. Windows and Linux just turn off composting when the hardware is not up to the task. OSX can't do that.

Single-button mousing in Tiger goes very quickly once you get used to it. Nowdays, Mac OS supports nearly any mouse you'd care to plug in
I happen to like that tiny scroll-button which is easily cleaned without voiding the warranty by holding the mouse upside-down and spinning the ball. It allows very rapid scrolling in any direction, which I like. Just don't have dirty fingers and it goes quite a while. Sensitive to dirt? Yes. Annoying to clean? Yes. Will I use anything different? No. (I have several really nice alternatives right here and I prefer MightyMouse)

If you actually like that monstrosity that is the MightyMouse then you are a FanBoi (FanGirl?) through and through. It is a terrible mouse, it can't even right-click properly. Your cleaning instructions do nothing for dirt that is stuck to the scroll ball.

Apple still hasn't fixed the laptop mouse button problem either. Right click workarounds with crtl or the touchpad are not a replacement for a real mouse button.

V(bleep!)sta's paranoid Activation scheme is what drove me to the Mac store . Every time I changed a RAID setting, "This software has been registered to another computer" and time to call my friends at the Activation Center... again...

This is a lie 100%. Changing your raid settings does NOT require Vista to be reactivated. Either you have never done this or you are making stuff up. Even changing the card wouldn't require it. Vista has some very specific hardware changes that will require reactivation.

I don't get this, Vista has loads of things wrong with it. There are a wealth of valid complaints against it. Why do people like you make stuff up when there is no need to?

PS. Macs are only "Pricey" compared to lower-end loss leader PCs. (ducks)

The only Mac that is a good value is the high end Mac pro, and only if you need it. Any others, including the single CPU pro are way overpriced for what you get.

My laptop was faster, had a bigger hard drive and most importantly had a higher resolution screen then the macbook pros at the time. It was pretty high end at the time, hardly a loss leader. Then only thing an Apple was better was it was smaller and lighter. That trade off was well worth the over $1000 I saved by not getting a Mac.

[KeriJane]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

This is a lie 100%. Changing your raid settings does NOT require Vista to be reactivated. Either you have never done this or you are making stuff up. Even changing the card wouldn't require it. Vista has some very specific hardware changes that will require reactivation.

I don't get this, Vista has loads of things wrong with it. There are a wealth of valid complaints against it. Why do people like you make stuff up when there is no need to?

No, it isn't a lie and I'm very upset that you would accuse me of making something up.
If you think that I'm wrong about something, couldn't you just say that rather than make outrageous accusations?

Here's the condition that I repeatedly broke Vista's Activation with.
WITHOUT changing a single piece of Hardware. (changing Hardware breaks it too)



System:
Intel P35DP mainboard
Intel e6750 CPU
8GB DDR2-667 system RAM (4x 2GB)
ATI 3850 Videocard
2x Plextor 716SA SATA DVD burneers
4x Hitachi 320GB Deskstar Hard Drives (2 used for storage)
Seasonic S12-600 PSU


Condition 1:
Pre-condition: Vista installed, Activated on 1 drive.
Action: Enable or Diable AHCI in BIOS, Vista did not require re-install.
Result: Broke Vista Activation both ways.

Condition 2:
Pre-condition: Vista Installed, Activated.
Action: Create RAID Array for system drive OR Delete/Change RAID Array, re-load Vista
Result: Would not reactivate.

I later got a HighPoint RocketRaid 3120 and...
Broke the Activation again!

That's about when I started thinking maybe I'll try a Mac.
Tiger and Leopard doesn't even a CD Key let alone Activation!


What? Just because I like a mouse that makes me a Fangirl?

I also like an old Razer mouse clunking around here and an older yet Microsoft Wireless mouse.
I just happen to like the little trackball scroll wheel. and don't have any trouble with right-clicks.


Sheesh!
Keri

PS> I resent being treated like a Thief by Microsoft AND being called a Liar by one of their FanBois/FanGirls

[370forlife]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Washu, you are getting a little too defensive, may want to tone it down a bit.

But in my experience it is true that you do not have to re-activate vista after a raid change. My brother has two 500gb's in raid on vista business 64bit, he didn't have it in raid before and it didn't care when he put it in raid 0, or when he changed it to raid 5.

[KeriJane]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Hi 370forLife

I'm just wondering what version of Vista Business did he have?

The V(bleep)sta version that gave me all the Activation grief was Home Premium OEM license. (NOT SLP2)

Have Fun,
Keri

[370forlife]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

I think it is Business enterprise 64bit no service pack, or maybe its just regular business, perhaps thats why it didn't need to be reactivated, who knows...

[washu]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Condition 1:
Pre-condition: Vista installed, Activated on 1 drive.
Action: Enable or Diable AHCI in BIOS, Vista did not require re-install.
Result: Broke Vista Activation both ways.

Condition 2:
Pre-condition: Vista Installed, Activated.
Action: Create RAID Array for system drive OR Delete/Change RAID Array, re-load Vista
Result: Would not reactivate.

I later got a HighPoint RocketRaid 3120 and...
Broke the Activation again!

My apologies for being harsh and calling Kari a liar. Kari seems like she knows enough about computers to know the difference between changing a config and re-installing because of that change. I assumed she knew the difference and was thus lying about raid requiring a reactivation. Obviously she does not know the difference. That's not meant as an insult, just that I overestimated her computer knowledge and insulted her because of that mistake. I apologize.

Condtion 1: Never tried, never had a need to. I will try myself sometime. However, this is not a raid change, so it doesn't apply to the question at hand.

Contition 2: You re-installed, so of course Vista requires a re-activate. Just changing a raid config does not require a reactivate. I stand by what I said.

Add a raid card: Did you re-install again? Just adding a card does not require a reactivate.

If you want to change your raid config on your boot volume and your card doesn't support live migration use ghost or some other imaging tool to keep your installed OS.

MightyMouse: It only has one button and adds a couple of finger sensors. You can't right click if your left click finger is touching. You also can't click both at the same time. Not as good as a mouse with real buttons.

OSX does require a "CD Key". It's called a Mac. It's a lot more expensive then a Windows key.

I am no MS fanboy. You may have noticed that I have also pointed out where Linux trounces OSX as well. I am not saying Windows is better, I'm saying OSX is worse.

[washu]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

I think it is Business enterprise 64bit no service pack, or maybe its just regular business, perhaps thats why it didn't need to be reactivated, who knows...

Most of my Vista use was with Vista Business, no enterprise, so it requires activation just the same as the home version. Changing a raid config does not require a reactivate.

What Kari did was change her raid config AND reinstall, not the same thing.

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Keri, have you tried Windows 7, the 64-bit edition? (if you download it, make sure you get the leaked RTM and not one of the betas).

It is VERY nice, might wanna give it a try before you declare OS X the winner.

[ratdude747]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

or ubuntu 9.10 alpha 5. no need to be leaked and boy is it FAST!

runs like clockwork on my p4 630 box with integrated graphics and 1.5gb of ram. lots of new features. google "ubuntu one". see what you think... not to mention a new, faster bootloader, re-worked login screen, new icons, improved setup program, ext4 by default (new fs)... now to get folding going on it...

[ratdude747]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

btw, compiz setup is EASY. all one does in ubuntu is open add/remove programs in the applications tab and make sure it is set to all applications. then search for compizconfig and select that. click apply changes, enter password when asked, and when it stops and is done, open compizconfig from the system/prefences menu. there you go! now all the setting are there. easy to use and you can mess with whatever you want. it automatically resolves conflicts.

edit- i HAVE used newer macs. ok but i liked linux better. all of the benifits of mac without the price pr restrictions.

and the mouse thing is an issue. the mightymouse is an overpriced paperweight in my opinion. no true right button. and so chorded clicks are impossible. and if only they made a way to REMOVE the scroll ball for cleaning

[NxB]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Home versions of windows are bad to begin with, much less a home version of vista. I'd just use the VLK ones if I needed vista or something. I should put OSX on one of my extra drives since my computer has compatible video now. I want to try final cut studio and see how it stacks up to AVID and Sony Vegas.

OSX support for video cards is poor, it not being able to turn off compositing is the icing on the cake.

[i4004]

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

earlier...

>The OS would have to be completely different in many ways to support them both as Leopard does. This causes problems for both G5 and Intel systems. That's why they dropped it, to make Snow Leopard simpler, smaller and more reliable.

i fail to see why should i care abou that?
if ms can make os that easilly supports todays and 10years old hardware, so should apple.
there's a thing called "hal" and it does the job.
(then again, macs are more of a fashion statement, than tool for people to use, so backwards compatibility is rarely an issue for apple...it's like a dress...once worn, you throw it away...unlike real tool we would prefer to see last some time...)

so it's not about that(difficulties to write os for both hardware platforms), but probably about trying to sell new stuff all the time.
makes more money than caring for old software.