Some More Retro PC Uniqueness - The Tyan S1564D Build

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  • Topcat
    The Boss Stooge
    • Oct 2003
    • 16956
    • United States

    #1

    Some More Retro PC Uniqueness - The Tyan S1564D Build

    I've sporadically scoured various places for a few years looking for one of these....and I finally found one on ebay pretty cheap. It came in an AT form-factor case with a bunch of perifs of the same era (buslogic scsi3 controller, S3 GPU, 10BT nic with bnc connector, toshiba 12x SCSI cdrom)...and may the mystery board please sign in...



    Tyan Tomcat IVD (S1564D) dual socket 7 supporting a blistering fast pair of 233MHZ MMX processors and 512mb RAM. Only a handfull of these were made, as this design was on the tail-end of the Pentium 1 era (430HX chipset), soon to be replaced by the slot-1 Pentium2 LX and then the legendary BX chipset....so yea, not an easy one to find....and hope like hell it works.

    It came with a matched pair of retail 233mmx processors and 128mb of ram. 2 of the SIMM's were bad, so its down to 64mb now....but I found 512mb worth (8 @ 64mb) 72-pin EDO SIMM's for $25 shipped.

    Now it was a matter of tinkering with hardware and seeing what's good and not-so-good in order to find that 'hardware happy place'. S3 GPU, no....doesn't support squat. I did manage to muster up an ATI 9200 128mb, one of the fastest PCI GPU's I've encountered. It was in a junk system that was given to me a couple years ago by a retiring realtor. Well supported from Win98/win2k and up (possible dual boot machine)....so yea, I'll give that one a try. I also removed the buslogic scsi controller and replaced it with an adapted 2940U2W. I stuck an ESS 1868 ISA sound card in it....I have an AWE64 around here somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. I'm also on the plextor hunt to scare up some more opticals. Those bastards are expensive on ebay...wowza!! I have no idea why they're priced so out there for old ass scsi burners. I guess I should appreciate the 4 that I have already!

    Getting there...


    I loaded win2k onto a test hdd to see how and if things would play with eachotehr. Win2k on 64mb of ram isnt terrible....but yea.... At idle (untweaked with unofficial SP5.1 installed), has 7mb free, so install anything on there, and its all done!! I installed a PCI USB card, as any system today without USB abilities is pretty useless, even for a retro box. Upon installing the drivers for the card, I was getting strange code-10 errors on the USB controller. After researching it, it was a BIOS issue. Of course the board had v1.00 on it. I downloaded the latest one from Tyan, v1.02, released in 1998...lol... I knew better than to do this (I was already having a Ratdude day, everything was going wrong), but I flashed it from a floppy rather than my standard procedure of copy it to a HDD first and flash it from the HDD....anyway, about half way through the flash, I heard the illustrious 'read error' grinding from the floppy drive, and the system hardlocked and rebooted....and of course no POST. Well POO!! Just bricked an extremely rare board. The BIOS chip itself is an ancient v4.51 ATMEL 128K ROM. As if by some miracle, I had a client's AOPEN Pentium 133 in here for recapping, with an award BIOS. ...so yay, hotflash coming up. The flash board had a 256k ROM, so I had to play around with a few versions of awdflash before I found one that would write to the 128k one without bitching & screaming...and finally got one that would....even though I had to use forceflash switches. I put the chip back in the Tyan, hit power and it still wouldn't post...and a couple seconds later, I started smelling something....well my dumbass put the chip in backward.....jeez, I'm batting zero today. I did not have another 128k chip, so I tried a 256k one. It actually flashed the 128k BIN (bitched about the size mismatch), I put it in the Tyan (correctly this time), and the board POST'ed...but it was behaving really strange, with all kinds of BIOS-related issues. After a few minutes of diddling around with that, I took the original ROM that was installed backward. I didn't let the magic smoke out, and I put a meter across GND and Vcc, and it wasn't shorted....so I said screw it, I installed it the right way, and hit power, half expecting it to finish it off...well, it didn't. It POST'ed with the latest v1.02 BIOS for the board.... It baffles me how that ROM got that hot but didn't fry...ohh well, not going to argue with it. System booted normally, and the BIOS update fixed the code-10 issues with the USB, and all hardware is happy!!



    I do not like this case at all, its very cheap, shoddy, and flimsy...and every edge inside is a razor blade. Whoever initially built this thing (its an unbranded home-brew) wasn't too concerned with case quality...so I am on the prowl for a high-end AT case from yesteryear, which is proving to be easier said than done...but I'll keep at it. This build may take a while to complete to my standards & liking...
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  • ratdude747
    Black Sheep
    • Nov 2008
    • 17136
    • USA

    #2
    Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

    I've had a ratdude day too... but that's in another thread.

    I had all sorts of trouble with USB cards on a server myself... that Netfinity 7000's hot-swap PCI didn't like my NEC USB 2.0 cards. One it would install drivers for but then code 10. The other two would stay unknown. Yeah, it has USB 1.1/1.0 ports but c'mon, USB 1.1 is kinda useless for flash drives.
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    • Topcat
      The Boss Stooge
      • Oct 2003
      • 16956
      • United States

      #3
      Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

      Originally posted by ratdude747
      ...NEC USB 2.0 cards...
      Exact card I was battling with today...
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      • ratdude747
        Black Sheep
        • Nov 2008
        • 17136
        • USA

        #4
        Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

        Originally posted by Topcat
        Exact card I was battling with today...
        Yeah, I have a generic one (Syba?), a belkin one (well built), and one by a good brand that I can't remember off the top of my head (they made hubs too, walmart carried them back in the late 2000's)... all NEC chipped. I also have a dual chip belkin card with 1394 as well (and it takes a molex plug for extra power). All my via cards are in the "desoldering bait" pile.

        Windows 2000+ IIRC has support out of the box for the belkin cards. Or is that XP? All I know is when it comes to USB 2.0, NEC controllers and hub chips tend to work out the box for everything (the latter also will work in BIOS and boot screens, handy for x86 tablet linux installs). VIA/genric chips not so much.

        ---

        I feel your pain with BIOS flashing... tip for next time: use a plop bootloader floppy and use that to install the BIOS from a DOS USB stick on the USB card (NEC chip required, see above). If the floppy fails, so what, you don't get to boot, no harm no foul. USB sticks failing is far less likely.
        Last edited by ratdude747; 04-24-2016, 10:46 PM.
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        • stj
          Great Sage 齊天大聖
          • Dec 2009
          • 31026
          • Albion

          #5
          Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

          Originally posted by ratdude747
          Yeah, it has USB 1.1/1.0 ports
          you shouldnt mix them up, USB1.0 has a design fault that means it fails on bulk transfers.
          USB1.1 was the fix.

          i was unfortunate to buy a motherboard when the USB1.0 standard came out that had the first integrated usb, and got stung by this.
          (VIA MVP3 chipset)
          i think here was also one unlucky intel chipset and maybe one from SES - they picked up on the problem and fixed it real fast after those mobo's went public!

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          • Topcat
            The Boss Stooge
            • Oct 2003
            • 16956
            • United States

            #6
            Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

            Originally posted by ratdude747
            I feel your pain with BIOS flashing... tip for next time: use a plop bootloader floppy and use that to install the BIOS from a DOS USB stick on the USB card (NEC chip required, see above). If the floppy fails, so what, you don't get to boot, no harm no foul. USB sticks failing is far less likely.
            I always copy the BIN to a HDD with DOS installed and flash it from there....but yesterday I was in a hurry....and it bit me in the ass, that'll learn me. Glad I was able to recover it, clever me!
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            • stj
              Great Sage 齊天大聖
              • Dec 2009
              • 31026
              • Albion

              #7
              Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

              the way around that is to have a small CF-card formated to boot dos with a few flashers on it, and an IDE>CF adapter.

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              • Topcat
                The Boss Stooge
                • Oct 2003
                • 16956
                • United States

                #8
                Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                Originally posted by stj
                the way around that is to have a small CF-card formated to boot dos with a few flashers on it, and an IDE>CF adapter.
                old 6.4gb WD IDE HDD is my BIOS drive. It never fails.....when I actually use it...
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                • Per Hansson
                  Super Moderator
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 5895
                  • Sweden

                  #9
                  Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                  Originally posted by Topcat
                  old 6.4gb WD IDE HDD is my BIOS drive. It never fails.....when I actually use it...
                  Too bad, you just jinxed that drive
                  Btw, your story reminded me of a stupid thing I did once, oh only a decade or more ago on a really ancient system (DIP BIOS chip)
                  Thought the flash was finished and powered the system off, well it wasn't finished!
                  Good luck I had a board at home I could hotflash it with, but boy did I feel like the idiot of the week after that
                  Sometime after that I bought a USB BIOS programmer, it's been very useful several times, just a small wink
                  "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                  Comment

                  • Sparkey55
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 1523
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                    Originally posted by Topcat
                    I always copy the BIN to a HDD with DOS installed and flash it from there....but yesterday I was in a hurry....and it bit me in the ass, that'll learn me. Glad I was able to recover it, clever me!
                    I use a copy of Norton Utilities 2002 for checking for read/write errors and surface errors on floppies before using them for bios flashing purposes.

                    Comment

                    • Topcat
                      The Boss Stooge
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 16956
                      • United States

                      #11
                      Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                      Originally posted by Sparkey55
                      I use a copy of Norton Utilities 2002 for checking for read/write errors and surface errors on floppies before using them for bios flashing purposes.
                      I normally never use a floppy for BIOS flashing....I just got lazy and paid for it.

                      ^^^
                      The classic "post from the retrobox"... FF12 on win2k with 64mb RAM = SLLLLOOOOOOOOWWWWW!!
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                      • lti
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • May 2011
                        • 2548
                        • United States

                        #12
                        Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                        Originally posted by ratdude747
                        Windows 2000+ IIRC has support out of the box for the belkin cards. Or is that XP? All I know is when it comes to USB 2.0, NEC controllers and hub chips tend to work out the box for everything (the latter also will work in BIOS and boot screens, handy for x86 tablet linux installs). VIA/genric chips not so much.
                        XP and newer have built-in drivers for VIA chips, and I would guess that there would be drivers for the NEC chips as well.

                        VIA chips do suck. I have an old laptop with a VIA chipset, and its USB ports are slow (slower than normal for USB 1.1). Under Windows,USB devices randomly disconnect if they transfer a lot of data and use a lot of power (more than a flash drive). The USB card I mentioned here has a VIA chip. I'd still like to know why the CPU usage is so high. I put it in a K6-2/500 system years ago, and I remember the CPU usage never dropping below 20%. When transferring data, the CPU usage was stuck at 100% and it had a lower transfer rate than even the USB ports on that old laptop. It clearly isn't normal for all USB 2.0 controllers or installing a USB 2.0 card in a retro computer wouldn't be an upgrade.
                        Originally posted by ratdude747
                        I feel your pain with BIOS flashing... tip for next time: use a plop bootloader floppy and use that to install the BIOS from a DOS USB stick on the USB card (NEC chip required, see above). If the floppy fails, so what, you don't get to boot, no harm no foul. USB sticks failing is far less likely.
                        I never got Plop to work. I could sometimes boot, but it would hang after a few seconds almost every time I tried.
                        Last edited by lti; 04-25-2016, 05:26 PM.

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                        • RJARRRPCGP
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Jul 2004
                          • 6304
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                          USB issues=I would check the +5 V rail.....
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                          "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

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                          "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                          "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

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                          • RJARRRPCGP
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 6304
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                            Originally posted by Topcat

                            I do not like this case at all, its very cheap, shoddy, and flimsy...and every edge inside is a razor blade.
                            Looks like a PRC-made case...

                            PRC-made cases get a reputation from me for making me bleed!
                            (When handling them(
                            ASRock B550 PG Velocita

                            Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

                            32 GB G.Skill RipJaws V F4-3200C16D-32GVR

                            Arc A770 16 GB

                            eVGA Supernova G3 750W

                            Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD

                            Alienware AW3423DWF OLED




                            "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

                            "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

                            "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                            "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

                            Comment

                            • dan8139
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 57

                              #15
                              Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                              I remeber wanting a Tyan Tomcat board, but it was over 2000 uk pounds, nevermind the cpus etc.... but that was a long time ago! Great that you have one though - I'd have a hard time finding a use for that system now. What are you going to do with it?

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                              • ratdude747
                                Black Sheep
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 17136
                                • USA

                                #16
                                Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                                Hey topcat- Just remebered something- I have a sturdy AT case kicking around at my parents house... but it's tiny and IDK if it would work for this (might be baby AT only?). I also have a barely used PC Power and Cooling PSU in it (freebie from Hondaman IIRC).

                                I have a board in it now and if I sent it your way I'd send that to you too. Never going to get to using it... Tomorrow I'll grab pics (and hopefully I can find the rear HDD caddy, which I removed to make the board fit).
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                                • Topcat
                                  The Boss Stooge
                                  • Oct 2003
                                  • 16956
                                  • United States

                                  #17
                                  Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                                  Originally posted by ratdude747
                                  Hey topcat- Just remebered something- I have a sturdy AT case kicking around at my parents house... but it's tiny and IDK if it would work for this (might be baby AT only?). I also have a barely used PC Power and Cooling PSU in it (freebie from Hondaman IIRC).

                                  I have a board in it now and if I sent it your way I'd send that to you too. Never going to get to using it... Tomorrow I'll grab pics (and hopefully I can find the rear HDD caddy, which I removed to make the board fit).
                                  Yes, pics plz!!
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                                  • ratdude747
                                    Black Sheep
                                    • Nov 2008
                                    • 17136
                                    • USA

                                    #18
                                    Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                                    Originally posted by Topcat
                                    Yes, pics plz!!
                                    Well, plans changed on me...

                                    I'll look around, as I may have pics around here. Edit- nope, all I found was a pictureless thread about it: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23171

                                    I'm sure it will do full AT though. Only room for 2 5.25" drives and 2 3.5" drives (plus a spring clipped 3.5" drive in the rear that interfered with my CPU cooler and I think I still have somewhere). Like I said, it's small all right.

                                    Edit- I will be getting a look tomorrow after all. IIRC it has a 300W PSU, which back then I hear was something!
                                    Last edited by ratdude747; 05-07-2016, 09:08 PM.
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                                    • Topcat
                                      The Boss Stooge
                                      • Oct 2003
                                      • 16956
                                      • United States

                                      #19
                                      Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                                      ^
                                      Still interested.
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                                      • junktv
                                        Badcaps Legend
                                        • Nov 2010
                                        • 3065
                                        • USA

                                        #20
                                        Re: Some More Retro PC Uniqueness

                                        What form factor is a poweredge 2200 case ?

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