Announcement

**PeteS in CA** · 10-26-2007, 08:54 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Well, I'm not very technoid in the digital realm and have always bought Intel machines. However, I've not seen any solid news that AMD will be getting out of the CPUs race. They have one or more generations in the development pipeline, and as far as I can see have bet their farm on CPUs. They have been in a cash crunch for a year or so.

**willawake** · 10-26-2007, 09:08 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

hahaha stores pay sales clerks shit so dont believe them
try some more stores so you get really confused.

either system would be nice

**Kaine** · 10-26-2007, 09:35 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Originally posted by stevo1210

I asked one store about AMD systems and they told me that AMD based systems always died (CPU wise), weren't good at overclocking and apparently are very fast when new and after a few years of use, the CPU wears out and becomes very slow.... Now that's something I am really worried about.

I doubt that what I am being told is true.... I think it sounds a little suspicious.

The second store said that AMD were moving away from making CPUs in the future so my choice would be better with Intel.... I don't believe the statement made by this store is actually true though.

Then after that store, I visited another store. This store took a different side, they said that Intel CPUs always burnt out and AMD CPUs didn't. I disagreed with the seller because I have used many Intel CPUs and never ever had any problems.

There's no polite way to put this;

The above is absolute and utter bullshit and those people should be fired for so blatantly lying to customers. Chances are those burnt motherboards have a LOT more to do with cheap & nasty PSUs or inadequate cooling than anything to do with the chips themselves. I would've laughed in their faces and told them to go fornicate themselves.

Secondly, AMD are NOT moving away from CPUs. That idiot is probably confused by AMD's purchase of ATI, a large GPU design & production company.

Really either system should be great. With the Intel you've got a solid existing upgrade path with C2D and with the AMD releasing a brand new line of processors in a few months their current offerings will become absolutely dirt cheap, giving you a cheap and easy upgrade. Having said that Intel will surely be dropping their already cheap prices even further around the same time.

**gonzo0815** · 10-26-2007, 09:39 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

I own a soket A system, a socket 754 system with Semperon 3100 and an soket 939 system with Athlon 64 Venice core.
Apart from that i have build and supported AMD & Intel systems from all platforms.

And sure, any of those CPU`s have their pro`s and cons, but not one will die or getting slower if used within specs.

For OC, i think it always depends, how far you push the limits.
For every cpu series, there are safe overcloking ranges and especially Vcore and temperature limits, from which on you will certainly hurt the cpu.

Especially the AMD skt 939 and the skt AM2 too is very easy to oc and this even with reduced vcore.
But this depends as always from the motherboard, as there must be an PCI-E & PCI frequency lock (which most boards do have).

With out doubt, the c2d is ATM the most powerful CPU core ATM.
If the raw cpu power is what you need, i think it is the best choice.

Nevertheless, the AMD systems are a little more efficient and cheaper, if high end gaming or other pure cpu power sensitive applications are not the most important things.
But sure, i think atm you can play any game with an amd 64 system (i am a gamer too, but not so fanatic anymore ;-) )

The c2d in fact is a huge problem for AMD, as most high end & enthusiast are on c2d today.
And this exactly was for the last years AMD`s market segment, which put amd in the situation to sell their CPU`s with a higher price tag then ever before and making some profit.

Now AMD is - as they had been most of the time they are in the cpu market - in a not that comfortable situation regarding price, market share and profit (actually losses).

The overtaking of ATI has withdrawn a lot of money form them too, and i think that this does not pay out anytime soon (remember 3dfx? they had overtaken a GFX card maker, and haven`t survived this experiment due to a shift of focus).
So it is quite possible, that AMD will go fubar, but i don`t think so.

**starfury1** · 10-26-2007, 10:16 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

thats a good one stevo...what makes a good gaming rig on the cheap

Well I dont know

Seems some of what you have been told may have a small grain of truth but has become the stuff of myths and legends I think.
(totally not what the original story might have been

)

AMD has lost it performance crown to the Core "2" Duo from what I read

I dont have vast stock of anything thing so have no real world experience of how they stack up against each other.

I have switched From AMD to a C2D Intel

AMD CPU's, probably there best thing now is they are dirt cheap
Intel are more costly but are lot cheaper then they use to be.

So in both camps your getting good value for money at this point.

If it was me Id do some research on the games your thinking of using and what they tend to work best with.

I would go with intel

You want to look at a good graphics card as these never seem to get cheap
since its for gaming

Or maybe its just games come along to make graphics cards redundant LOL

I dont know how the 7100GS stack's up
(I read its a bit lacking but then again thats usually comment from those that are into gaming and run $$$$ cards)

So probably fine if you don't want all bells and whistles at Highest resolution.

I have a Bliss 8600GT (DDR3) 256Mb (all I could really afford after I built this box)

works well enough for me..but quake or San An 3 is usually all I play if I do a bit of gaming, No cutting edge game play here

Seems a few are using the P5K
But as you know it depends on whos telling the story as to if Asus make a good or bad board (or any MB for that matter)

This one Here ?
(they show the range on page 2 but the bottom one, is what the reviews about)

They seem to be the over clockers delight

I am happy enough with mine Asus P5K Deluxe WiFi
(these have had some bad press)

Oh and just a word of warning
Dont use the bios windows (whatever) upgrade thing...its been known to RMA MB's

(ditto any MB in my book)

Do it from the Bios with a usb stick (may have to set it up to pretend to be a floppy)
Flashing Bios is always a risky business,
do it when you have to is my Advice.
(oh Eproms were so much easier LOL)

I take it your not planning Vista for this box?

So to me
Id plan on a decent MB and graphics card (and of course PSU)
with a view to upgrade as soon as money was there
You may have to run in somewhat slug mode depending on the game.

I don't really have a clue with the new stuff

All I know is either system would be a sight faster then my last 2 AMD boxes

Goodluck with it stevo

hopefully some gamers around here will post on it for you

And remember to post PICS of the build...

Cheers

**relkin67** · 10-26-2007, 10:27 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

A low end C2D has huge overclocking potential - my 6300 (1.86) runs at 2.1GHz 24/7 running BOINC. Rock solid under constant stress and using only the stock heatsink. I've seen many reports of people running them MUCH faster. This is a really good affordable chip - especially if you can get an early C2D at a discount.

If it were me, I've find a low end C2D (with a 1066 bus - not the el cheapo 800s they introduced) and a good motherboard capable of handling the quad-cores. Those are going to fall in price and will make a nice cheap upgrade in the future - if you want to factor that in.

(Full disclosure - I do own Intel stock.)

**kikkoman** · 10-26-2007, 10:44 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

it's also hard to tell which socket will be supported longer. the 775 has been on the market for 3 years now, the AM2 was introduced last year.

intel is producing their current core2quad cpus for the 775, but i assume they'll introduce a new socket for later revisions of the quad.

AMD is currently developing the AM3 which'll probably be introduced end of 2008, but the CPUs will be backwards compatible with AM2 mobos (you can't use DDR3 then, of course) - sounds good to me.

but either way, you'll be happy for a few years, especially if you go with a budget PC.

**stretch0069** · 10-26-2007, 11:42 PM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Take a look at my stats for Folding@Home. I've got dual core P4 and AMD. Theres a Quad core in there and a couple others.

The AMD will do flaky things from time to time. It'll lock up every now and again if I'm playing games. Theres been a couple times when I select it on the KVM and I find that it has rebooted. Granted its been a few months since that one has happened. Might have had to do with the PSU. But the C2D is running the same case/PSU that the AMD was and its fine.

I agree about updating firmware. Thats why I lean towards the Intels. Maybe its just Abit. Who knows. All the different processors are running on Abit boards. In the pics, I also have the proc specs as well. Take a look and compare.

Personally, the single core P4 and the AMD are going soon. They will be replaced by two Intel quad cores. I like out of the box builds without any fuss. So far, the Intels give me that. Again....maybe its the mobos....or....maybe it has a bit to do with the CPU.

Friends in the past never had good luck with AMDs. I thought I'd give 'em a try. For the money, I got more from the Intel setup.

Just my 2 pennies......

**Per Hansson** · 10-27-2007, 02:33 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

The guys you met at the stores are morons

I'm suprised you find people so misinformed but oh well.

Anyway, it's quite simple. AMD gives you more performance/dollar at the lowend/midrange
Intel gives better performance/dollar for highend

The Core 2 line of CPU's are very overclockable, keep that in mind if that is your alley...

**stevo1210** · 10-27-2007, 03:00 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Originally posted by Per Hansson

Anyway, it's quite simple. AMD gives you more performance/dollar at the lowend/midrange
Intel gives better performance/dollar for highend

The Core 2 line of CPU's are very overclockable, keep that in mind if that is your alley...

Hmm.... I need high performance for video editing and also gaming at times so I guess Intel is still my path after many years

.

How's an Intel genuine desktop board based on the P35 chipset perform for some video editing and gaming??

I won't be overclocking anything though, so I just need a motherboard that is reliable and is also cheap.

Currently I use an Intel DP965LTCK board and I feel that it's very reliable.... it was also good value for money when I purchased it a while back.

The Asus P5K is pretty good in my opinion, but then again it's quite expensive compared to an Intel desktop board.... Would I be better off paying $50 for the Asus P5K??.... crossfire support would be nice though.

Thanks.

**stevo1210** · 10-27-2007, 03:20 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

I just had a look at the Asus P5K board and it comes with all conductive polymer caps. I compared some online prices for the Asus P5K and the cheapest place sold it for $143AUD.
Just in the range that I can afford too.

**gg1978** · 10-27-2007, 09:06 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

I'm not exactly sure what the exchange rate between OZ and the US is, but on that kind of budget, i'd go AMD. I would ditch the SLI board, and either get a 6100/6150/7050 based AM2 board, or the ATI 690G. Sure, these boards are typically microATX, but these are solid chipsets.

I"m not sure how much of a gamer you are, but a 7100 is pretty weak nowadays. In fact i just looked it up on newegg, the only 7100 they have is a 128M one that steals 384M from the system so it can pretend to be a 512M card. Only has a 64bit memory bus too. Even if you SLI'd a pair of 7100''s you *might* have the equivalent of a 7600 or so.

THen again you might not be a real serious gamer, but to be honest the integrated video on teh AM2 boards i mentioned in the first sentance just might beat a 7100GS.

For a minimum, i'd go with a 7600GT, or failing that, a used 6600 or 6800GT.

These all at least have a 128M memory bus.

As for the people at the computer shop, i'll agree with the sentiment that they don't know quite what they're talking about.

As for Intel and the C2D, sure it's nice, but with your budget, a cheaper AM2 with a stronger video card would be better..

As for Intel Desktop boards, they're nice as a rule, but i think only a couple support overclocking, and they're quite expensive.

**pentium** · 10-27-2007, 01:44 PM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

I personally only use intel in PIII and earlier systems. Once you break the 1.3 ghz barrier I have seen AMD shine. Not really in the way of speed but It almost seems that a 2.2 ghz Athlon 3000+ runs a little cooler than a P4 at 1.7 ghz.

**stretch0069** · 10-27-2007, 04:05 PM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Originally posted by stevo1210

Hmm.... I need high performance for video editing and also gaming at times so I guess Intel is still my path after many years

.

How's an Intel genuine desktop board based on the P35 chipset perform for some video editing and gaming??

I just got the Abit IP35 Pro board and a C2Q chip for $450. From the little things I do on all the platforms, the Quad is an obvious better performer. The C2D that I have did awesome for rendering RT edits using Premiere. Much faster than the dual CPU P3 and single P4 of course. I'll have to run edits on the AMD and C2Q to get a better idea.

**WNG** · 10-30-2007, 07:33 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Originally posted by pentium

I personally only use intel in PIII and earlier systems. Once you break the 1.3 ghz barrier I have seen AMD shine. Not really in the way of speed but It almost seems that a 2.2 ghz Athlon 3000+ runs a little cooler than a P4 at 1.7 ghz.

You must be referring to Willamette cores. The Northwood core is pretty cool running. I have only one P4 system, a 1.8 GHz Northwood w/512K L2.
And it's cooler than my Athlon Thoroughbred at 2 GHz.

I'm still for the AMD camp though. The price value is untouchable. And very overclockable yet stable. C2D and now, C2Q are technologically superior. But you must pay the price of admission.
AMD AM2 X2 Brisbane core is my current build, can't wait to fire it up and dial it up to 2.8 GHz.

As for those salesmen, LOL! They are so brokeback!

Obvious that they are just hoping you were some dumb naive kid they could shovel a bunch of parts on you.

I agree, shop for a better video solution. It may be enough for watching video output, but forget latest gaming.
If you do video editing then opt for 2 Gig of RAM. 1 Gig is only enough to allow WinXP to run normal, not enough for such intensive tasks.

**gonzo0815** · 10-30-2007, 09:33 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Absolutely, get the biggest amount of ram you can afford now, prices are down and possibly will never reach this level with todays technology.
I think 2gb is plenty for XP and the normal range for Viesta.

**Per Hansson** · 10-30-2007, 02:02 PM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Yea, I agree with gonzo, in general if your are buidling a system get as much RAM as you can

4GB isn't bad (sure, a 32bit OS only sees ~3.2gb but with the prices of RAM nowdays... Plus it's looking like 64bit OS'es might actually be usable soon. Usable as provide better performance than 32-bit OS'es

**stevo1210** · 11-02-2007, 08:33 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

I had a discussion with my father today regarding the issue of building a new PC today.

He made a point about the current Intel DP965LTCK board that I currently have.

The Intel DP965LTCK board supports Intel Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad CPUs also (something that I forgot about).
If I was to buy a Core 2 Duo CPU and upgrade from the P4 thats in it now.... I would save some money on a board.
My father wants the old P4 and other items to build a newer media center.

My question is about the CPU socket.

Intel Socket 775 is very fragile from what I have heard. I have heard some stores and people say that once the CPU is in, it stays there and if the CPU is removed the socket will get damaged. Is this true??

If I can get a new CPU installed without damaging the socket then I am definitely going to buy a mid to top of the range Core 2 Duo CPU, some extra RAM and a new and fast graphics card also.

Also, between the P965 and P35 chipsets, is there a large difference in performance at all??

Thanks.

**pentium** · 11-02-2007, 08:54 AM

Re: AMD or Intel??....

Socket 775 reminds me of one of the worst connectors I have ever seen or used in my life:
Compression Connectors.

These things are so darn sensitive they should never have been used. You can ruin one of these things just by moving a silk cloth over it the wrong way (and the hardware these connectors are on don't come cheap).

I have heard some stores and people say that once the CPU is in, it stays there and if the CPU is removed the socket will get damaged. Is this true??

Could be. Probably over time the heat might cause the chip to stick to the socket and you might also have oxidation on the socket and not where the socket makes contact with the chip (Thus when the chip is removed and replaced there is no promise it will still have a good connection).

One other thing. It looks cool but DO NOT TOUCH THE CONNECTOR!
There's nothing worse than throwing away a $300+ board that still works but has a dead compression connector.

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AMD or Intel??....

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