Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

[Shocker]

Here's the deal.

I don't trust new hard drives, nor do I have much of a need for them personally. As a result I end up with old hard drives, which are usually more robust and last much longer.

Unfortunately, even the old hard drives aren't without their problems. This one is a case in point. It's an ST380011A, made in 2004. I looked at the connector attachment points, and what did I see but tin whiskers. I compared it with an ST360021A (leaded solder) and ST3250820A (lead-free) and the solder certainly looks like that on the latter.

The real kicker is that by no means were they forced to use lead-free solder in 2004. I have power supplies from 2005, even early 2006 which don't have that crap.

The drive was functioning okay the last time I used it, but I doubt it's a good idea to keep using it like this.

And this time the goes to Seagate instead of RoHS, as I already explained.

EDIT: And for the record, there's nothing else wrong with the drive. If the solder becomes the first point of failure, well that sucks.

[Shocker]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Anyone???

Something as simple as solder being the first point of failure in something as complex (and precise) as a hard drive is just sad.

They call it Restricton of Hazardous Substances. I call it Restriction of Helpful Substances. If people didn't keep upgrading and throwing out their devices then I don't see much harm coming from lead in solder. Also, they pronounce it "rose", but I mispronounce it on purpose .

I despise RoHS. As I stated, the problem is not that lead is/was used in solder, but that consumers are hopelessly wasteful.

[Shocker]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Also have to add this: The drive in question is my only (if out-of-date) backup of my data files. On top of that I also run as an Administrator constantly, and don't have any antivirus utility at all.

[c_hegge]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Admittedly, computers are gonna end up in landfill regardless of whether they fail or not, because new software won't run on them, so I kind of understand the sense of RoHS in computers, but in other devices which don't need software upgrades, then yes, I hate RoHS.

[Agent24]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Also have to add this: The drive in question is my only (if out-of-date) backup of my data files. On top of that I also run as an Administrator constantly, and don't have any antivirus utility at all.

Well that's just silly.

As I saw somewhere once.. "If your data doesn't exist in at least three different locations, it doesn't exist"

[Wester547]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Anyone???

Something as simple as solder being the first point of failure in something as complex (and precise) as a hard drive is just sad.

They call it Restricton of Hazardous Substances. I call it Restriction of Helpful Substances. If people didn't keep upgrading and throwing out their devices then I don't see much harm coming from lead in solder. Also, they pronounce it "rose", but I mispronounce it on purpose .

I despise RoHS. As I stated, the problem is not that lead is/was used in solder, but that consumers are hopelessly wasteful.

Do you mean the IDE pins on the connector? If that's the case then it's possible the 7200.7 drives were the "transition" series and the beginning of lead-free solder in Seagate drives considering they went to it completely with the 7200.8 series. I wouldn't be worried about it, though - I doubt those "whiskers" get hot enough to cause solder fractures or short circuits in this case.

Usually I don't like programs in the background but I do find it prudent to keep an anti-virus app around. Avira is one I'd recommend; it's not consuming of much RAM at all, in my experience (if you have 512MB or more in XP).

[Shocker]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

And having to upgrade the PC to run new software (except things like gaming and CAD) is itself the result of a conspiracy.

I have no motherfucking idea how we've come to this. As hardware gets faster, software gets bloated enough that the result is slower. A vicious, expensive, toxic circle. I actually hope we get to the point where technology can no longer be pushed any further sooner rather than later.

Seriously, being able to literally see tin whiskers without a microscope or even a magnifier tells me all I need to know about RoHS. It's about reducing the damage trash causes, not reducing the volume of trash (which it actually increases). The latter is the real solution to the environmental damage. RoHS is just a pathetic attempt to make people think everything will be okay. It won't...not by a long shot.

Waste is waste, even if it doesn't cause health damage. It's still expensive, takes up space, and causes serious inconvenience. All of us totally miss the days when quality and reliability were taken seriously.

EDIT: Also, just to clarify, it's the board solder I'm talking about. The pins themselves are gold plated (except the power input).

EDIT 2: The problem whiskers create is short circuits.

[smason]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

As I saw somewhere once.. "If your data doesn't exist in at least three different locations, it doesn't exist"

Words to live by!

[smason]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

EDIT: Also, just to clarify, it's the board solder I'm talking about. The pins themselves are gold plated (except the power input).

EDIT 2: The problem whiskers create is short circuits.

Would love to see some good pics.

[ratdude747]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

If none of it is BGA, sounds like a straightforward fix using some braid and leaded solder.

[Shocker]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

You're right, there's no BGA (luckily) so fixing it won't be rocket science. But I'm going to practice on some junk boards (ironically some of them being from the same model HDDs) first. Better to fix it later than to break it forever.

Also, the problems with the ST chips could be why you had bad luck with yours. Remember what I said about them going suicide in use.

I know it's silly to not have a backup, BTW. That's why I put the smilies on the end.

Of course we'll never know what those RoHS politicians were smoking.

[ratdude747]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Of course we'll never know what those RoHS politicians were smoking.

Solder fumes?

[Shocker]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Outstanding explanation!!!!!

[c_hegge]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

[Agent24]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Or the paranoid could say RoHS is a scam by the industry to make less reliable products and thus require you to pay more money in repairing or replacing them.

[ben7]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Probably was them 'green' freaks!

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Or the paranoid could say RoHS is a scam by the industry to make less reliable products and thus require you to pay more money in repairing or replacing them.

Nope, Envirocrats. Here's the scary part about RoHS. Theoretically, some industries are exempt, e.g. military and medical electronics (what does that say about RoHS-compliant equipment?!). In real world (hated by bureaucrats) the vast majority of components are subject to RoHS, and component manufacturers are not going to maintain separate lines (separate facilities?) using unique materials and processes for a very small fraction of the components marketplace. So even exempt products are being forced by regulation-induced shortages to use tin-whisker-susceptible RoHS-compliant components and materials.

This is why I've long expressed the wish that the Envirocrats responsible for RoHS will find their lives dependent on RoHS-compliant medical electronics.

[ben7]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Here is an interesting page I found about this issue.

[Shocker]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Yep, I couldn't feel better if the idiots behind RoHS died in pain. In fact I need more words than exist in the dictionary to describe RoHS. Appalling, terrible, disastrous, short-sighted, atrocious, horrifying, negligent, retarded, stupid, unacceptable...

Anyway, the thing being RoHS is the worst disaster that ever happened in the electronics industry. And I'll never get over it. Not until they see this thread and find out how bad their decisions were.

I could go on all day and night about how shitty RoHS is, but time isn't unlimited so I have to focus on more important things than ranting.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: Lead-free solder and tin whiskers: Older than you think

Does anybody have information about how much lead actually gets into the body from different sources? Because I can't imagine electronics having been much of a contributor because old TVs and computers get buried in dry landfills that manage to keep even cheeseburgers fresh looking for years.