Nichicon yea or nay

[Kaptdeath]

I have searched the threads for information about Nichion caps and have found kinda conflicting information. So I thought I'd pose the question directly. Nichicon UPWs acceptable, or don't waste your time? I assume that they must be better than the UHEs (as they cost a little more). I can't seem to find Rubycons at anywhere stateside and these appear to be the most likely candidates from Mouser.

I need to get a number of them as I have 3 MoBos to cap. (Hopefully one of em' will work.) I guess that's what I get for getting some cheap boards off of e-bay. (The really funny bit is that all of the ones I've gotten are in worse shape than mine that I screwed up on my first recapping attempt.)

It's a LEARNING opportunity.

Thanks for any suggestions.

The Kapt'n

P.S. If this is posted in the wrong place, I appologise.

[Spacedye69]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Both are good caps. What size/brand/series are you replacing? If you need Rubycons, you can get them from TC.

I think the price/performance difference between the PW and HE series is similar with Panny FM and FC. PW and FC are an older, non aqeous formula, whereas the HE and FM are newer aqueous formulas. The aqueous formulas have better specs all aound, but are cheaper. Either aqueous caps are cheaper to produce, newer caps that are produced more, or have less of a following so they jack the price on the older series. My guess is aqueous caps are cheaper to produce, not cheaper in quality.

[starfury1]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

willawake put that whip away
ok jokes aside
You probably would have been better to post under the MB section your MB falls under.

Or under the thread you started in relation to this question.
sorry to hear it died.

oh and remove the CPU before recapping lastly in the interests of not turning you pride and joy into junk practice on junk

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4730

if you are talking about screwed VRM caps..with Gigabyte of that vintage (Ga-7ZXE) most likely GSC's you can use Panasonic FM's, they will do the job.

The other thing is you can use 2200uf 6V3, (or 1800uf 1500uf) more of them as there is extra positions for them
try and stay near what was the total capacitance but a little extra don't hurt
(some say go max, not going to open that can.... search the threads)

Make sure you use the same brand value and type for these positions regardless
I did this with the later gigabyte here

My ( GA-7ZXE) was fitted with 3300uf I replaced with panasonic FM 3300 uf but these are 12.5 mm diameter so a bit of a bugger to fit...works fine just not so pretty to look at

See the thread around here somewhere on washing PCB too
but give them plenty of time to dry out, they might look better then you think after a good bath.
(remove batt of course)
make sure you reset the bios too after a recapping.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[linuxguru]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Nichicon PW is fine for just about anything, except perhaps Vcore (VRM output) on P4 boards - here, an ultra-low ESR series like Rubycon MBZ, MCZ; Nichicon HZ; Chemicon KZ*; Panasonic FJ/FL/FM; or Samxon GC/GD; Sanyo Oscon or similar polymer types may be a better choice.

[Kaptdeath]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Sorry bout posting in the wrong place, but I thought it was a capacitor question, not a MoBo specific question. So what I am hearing is that they should be ok for my vintage socket A boards (GA-7ZXE revs 1.1 and 2.1). But probably not a good idea for a socket 478 or 775 P4 MoBo. I got my caps from TC before but I don't want to spend that kind of money on something where I am not confident about the outcome.

As to replacing missing caps, I hadn't planned to. I don't think that the sockets w/o caps have the values labled. I could guess what would fit there, but I'd rather not.

The boards themselves look to be in good shape. On one, every thing looks fine, but it won't post at all (my tester says something about a memory problem). The other one has orange goo on top of every cap over 330uf (I'm not even going to try turning it on). Mine looked and ran fine except for a slight swelling on the 1200uf cap just north of the socket. I'll probably try recapping it again, just to beat the horse entirely to death.

Thanks to all for the input.

The Kapt'n

[gdement]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

The ESR of PW caps is about double the value of a Teapo SM, Ruby ZL, or chemicon KZE cap which you'd normally expect to find on an Athlon. So you might be on the outer fringes of the design tolerance.
But they might work well enough so I'd try them anyway if that's what you have.
Intel did use some large, high value PW's on some of their P3 boards I think. They definitely did this with the PW's predecessor (PL) on some P2 and PPro boards. They're very reliable, just a bit lacking in performance for more modern boards and they don't come in convenient sizes.

[starfury1]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

really I was just saying it might have been better there as the history of what you were doing was there....
wasn't saying your in the wrong place and true it was a cap specific question.
I wasn't up on that so I left it to other.

As to replacing missing caps, I hadn't planned to. I don't think that the sockets w/o caps have the values labeled. I could guess what would fit there, but I'd rather not.

Really that just an option open to you.

To explain it a bit further The VRM output caps are probably the most abused and stressed caps on the MB.
Since you mentioned EBay my guess was chances are they are going to be stuffed to start with

On some MB they have extra positions for the output caps
(you usually have to check with a a multimeter to see if they are in parallel but I know there is with that MB)

this gives the manufactures the option to use more lower value caps to make up the total output VRM capacitance.

you may even find early productions with them all populated but later they change to larger value caps so only filled half the positions.
(this meets about the same total capacitance)

Ok I'll drag up will old post on that mb here

Mine don't look much better but works Fine!

see the nice brown stuff ....mine was worse! but still booting and working...except for the characteristic hangs and reboots from bad caps
so don't necessarily write of the one with spewing caps just yet.


BTW looking at that reminds me...sometime Memory can be damaged because of them
So if you can check memory sticks that came with the MB (if any did)

as I said make sure you reset bios and set it to "safe mode values"
run it on those for a fair while to be sure there is no chance(well a lot less) of flaky behavior from BIOS setting.

As has been mentioned, using these thing with the bios over clocked can be sure way to get BSOD.

Oh and the 2 near the power connector and coil at the edge of the MB replace them as well (they will be crap)

Anyway hope this helps and post questions if in doubt about anything.

Cheers

[Bookworm]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Related question. I haven't found anyone really saying, and it's not in the 'which caps to buy' thread.

Nichicon VZ caps. I know they're GP, but are they bad for recapping motherboards?

BW

[kc8adu]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Related question. I haven't found anyone really saying, and it's not in the 'which caps to buy' thread.

Nichicon VZ caps. I know they're GP, but are they bad for recapping motherboards?

BW

vz are not recomended for motherboard recaping.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Kaptdeath

The thing to do is to find the specs for the original caps and then find replacements that match as closely as possible.
Ideally you can find an exact match but that's often not possible.
When you can't find and exact match the ESR and ripple are a higher priority than capacitance.
ESR and ripple in essence tell you how effective the cap is at removing ripple.
You do not want to go to a cap that is less effective than the original.
The capacitance defines what frequency the circuit is optimal at but is a rather loose fit value (as seen by the tolerance of low ESR caps being +/-20%).
-
If you look at the ESR/Ripple for the PW and HE series you will begin to understand what the difference is.
Relative to PW, HE has better ESR/Ripple ratings.

If the PW matches or exceeds ESR/Ripple of the origional caps then they are just fine.
If not then move up to HE (or similar) if they meet the ESR/Ripple needs.
If HE isn't enough you will have to move to an even better grade.

Hope that makes sense.

.

[chipper]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

I think linuxguru may be completely right about Sanyo Caps , as I recall after experiencing using some as replacements just recently , how good Sanyo really is.
For example : I also remember that the earliest [high powered] car stereos that were any good at all - were Sanyo. Which was not an impressive name at the time.
Another example : I was just checking my oldest mobo (266mhz Epox board) , and it is loaded with gold Sanyo capacitors. ( The board still works perfectly with no bad caps whatsoever )

Maybe it's a good idea to stick with either Sanyo or Panasonic , as they have probably put out some really good capacitors to keep themselves abreast with the latest upgradings done by us electronics buffs.

A Panasonic example : My father has a 13yr. old [ 53" Panasonic Rear Projection TV ] and it has been working without any problem whatsoever since new and delivered. It weights about 200lbs. but it still works like the day it was bought. I don't know , but it probably is loaded with Panasonic capacitors.

FYI. The experience I had with the Sanyo cap - was that I replaced 1 cap with a Sanyo on a dead section of TV board , and it came alive , heat sink and all. It got my attention immediately. Guess I'm gonna ravage that old board for the Sanyo caps after all instead of building it up to a 750mhz or something. LOL

So , we are talking used , the Sanyo's are extremely good.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Sanyo and Panasonic are right up there with Rubycon as far as I'm concerned.

Beware of Sanyo counterfeits though.
Been seeing them show up claiming to be WG series.
If the vent isn't in the shape of a K then it's a fake.

.

[Super Nade]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

I'd say yea to the LE/LF series.

[kc8adu]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Sanyo and Panasonic are right up there with Rubycon as far as I'm concerned.

Beware of Sanyo counterfeits though.
Been seeing them show up claiming to be WG series.
If the vent isn't in the shape of a K then it's a fake.

.

some sanyo's have an overlapping x vent.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Maybe but not according to Sanyo told me.
I sent in samples of the fakes is that they said they always use the K.
In fact they seem to think it's THEIR trademark.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Not sure what you mean by "overlapping x".
Do you mean like on some Daewoo caps?

[chipper]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Update to the Sanyo capacitors question. If you visit the Sanyo.com website you will see how professionally they treat their smallest replacement parts (IE: caps). And , notice the "Lifetime" Brand name for instance. Since Nichicon seems to be all over alot of PCB's , and they have been failing , as far as I am concerned in the meter tests I have done (irratic readings) , I would say they may be what can be called "generic" , not really any sort of hybrid capacitors. If you care to compare websites with Sanyo , then it's a slam dunk. Also : check out the newest Sanyo Laser TV Projection Boxes that just came out. Sanyo has my attention.

[chipper]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

I guess it's time to make a simple circuit test to prove one way or the other. Setting up a battery in a circuit that will include different capacitors could prove quite a bit as to how long a battery will last. Once done , you would know which capacitors were more efficient , and note the "new" capacitance and then the "used" capacitance. The battery being the test , running times would have to be monitored or averaged out somehow. I'll go with whichever capacitor runs voltage the best , not resists voltage the best.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Um,,, Capacitors are supposed to block DC and pass AC.

[chipper]

Re: Nichicon yea or nay

Update on Nichicon yea or nay :

Recently , I discovered that the actual color of Nichicon's may suggest their age or their "batch" inclusions. What I mean is that some of the smaller caps that are used together with bigger caps are a different burgandy color , while the larger caps are black. It is a possibility that the burgandy caps of smaller sizes have been used because of a lack of or abundance of supply from large stored lots of manufacturers supplies.

I also thought originally before removing and testing them , that some of the burgandy caps seemed to have changed colors , or were in the process of changing from black to burgandy. After pulling a dozen or so , I discovered that this burgandy color was also the color of caps that only beared the familiar NIPPON emblem or crest in the smaller sizes. While the smaller NIPPON's are marked KME , whenever I change a cap that is burgandy , there is a positive effect.

It could be a problem of compatibity to mix NIPPON and Nichicon caps , as it seems that all the ones I have pulled are all 105 degrees in nature. Suggesting maybe that different caps were used to "fullfill" a need for specifications , without considering any possible incapabilities that these caps may have while working together after a few years or less.

The ones I have pulled are all from units that were built in late 2007 , meanwhile I changed those caps to known good (used) caps with positive results no matter where they were.

I am yet to remove and replace 1 burgandy cap (I don't have) on a power supply that is mixed with 5 other Nichicon caps of fairly large size. ( Nippon 3300uF @ 10v KY ) I will update this thread on any results thereof.