Watch the physical size of caps!

[Logistics]

There should be a sticky about capacitors' physical size as a reminder to hapless fools like me. I'm recapping a poor KX7 with Panasonic FM's and I could have sworn when I was looking online that the listed dimensions were always miraculously smaller than the caps I was going to remove which seemed great, but in fact the caps are all larger than the ones I'm removing so now instead of having caps in-between the PCI slots which are as tall as the slots themselves, I have caps which are about 30% taller than the slots so there is potential for them to hit component-side obstacles when a card is placed in it's slot.

I don't think it's going to end up being a problem this time around, but what happened? I'm going to have to go back and look at the catalog on digikey... I think the physical size of the listed product has changed or I'm just a complete newb and somehow measured incorrectly. I'll let you know if the catalog was wrong!

[Logistics]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Okay the original Teapo 1000uF 10V caps I removed are... 10mm diameter by, best I can tell, 18.5mm or 19mm. In the Digikey catalog the 10mm version of the 1000uF 10V is only 16mm in length. Oh HAIL nah! The caps I received are 10mm by 27mm, maybe .5mm larger if I include the space the rubber seal at the bottom takes up.

Even in the actual datasheet on Panasonic's website, they only list the 10x16 version. The Digikey catalog lists a single other 1000uF 10V capacitor in the FM series and it is an 8mm x 20mm which is still smaller than these monsters I recieved.

What gives? Just a change in manufacturing that hasn't been reflected in their catalog... or even in Panasonic's own datasheets?

[gastorgrab]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Thankfully, i've only done that once.

going to have to go back and look at the catalog on digikey...

Since my first mistake i like to highlight the line in the catalog i'm looking at so my eyes remain on the correct line.



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[Logistics]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Ah, I see you posted before I made my second reply. This still doesn't add up. It has to be a change in manufacturing that hasn't been reflected yet.

[gastorgrab]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Is it the part number you thought it was?
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[Logistics]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

What in the world? The packaging on the bags is listed as P12354 which is the 8mm x 20mm, but measuring them with a ruler shows that they are 10mm diameter and again 27mm length. I made text files of everything I ordered including what was originally on the board so I could compare notes. I did in fact order the P12354's; at the time I must have been figuring I could save space horizontally and another 2mm(as listed) vertically wasn't going to cause any collisions as far as I'm concerned. But even then, these don't match either of the 1000uF 10V FM's.

[Logistics]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Oh, my goodness. Nevermind, I am a moron! I've been measuring with the wrong side of the ruler. Hahaha!

I've been measuring with the portion of my ruler that reads in 1/32's of an inch. I hope I am not doomed because that means the caps I have ordered are potentially all larger than I can actually fit. I don't think it will be a problem on this motherboard I am recapping, but it could prove to be trouble when I try to recap my power supply.

I'd like to take this moment to make one thing perfectly clear. "FRIIICK!"

[gonzo0815]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Usually a sliding caliper should be used to measure it exact.
For this kind of work i think a cheap plastic one would be sufficient.
I do always check the caps in any device before i order replacements.
Up to now i have not seen any particular Panasonic cap which would not fit into the diameter stated on the data sheet.
But to be honest, i usually do not check this as long as it fit`s.

[tazwegion]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Why didn't you use the 1000uF 6.3v capacitor? that would've been an even better fit regarding the expansion slot height

[Logistics]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Well, I've found that I'm DEFENITELY NOT going to be able to fit some of the 10mm caps I bought where the 8mm's used to go, but I can't find any 8mm 1500uF's at Digikey. I'll have to buy some more. Can I get away with 1200uF in it's place?

I figure it's better to have a 1200uF 6.3 Panasonic FM than a 1500uF Teapo, lol!

[starfury1]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

well I suppose that does depend on what exactly there purpose is but probably you would (size and pitch is your prob here)

I guess teapo specs have got to be worse and partly why they are using 10 Volt caps to compensate

The specs (Z, ripple) on 1200 uf 6V3 FM depend on the size if you look at the pdf above

Manufacturer's part number EEUFM0J122L size is 8 mm dia 20mm len pitch 3.5 mm

Z@100Khz is 0.030 ohm Ripple Current is 1560 mA

Manufacturer's part number EEUFM0J122 size 10mm dia 16mm len pitch 5 mm

Z@100Khz 0.026 ohm Ripple is 1790 mA

(pitch being lead spacing)

Anyway here's a photo of 1200 uf 6V3 and a 1500uf 6V3 Panasonic FM series
These are 10 mm diameter and pitch of 5mm (according to specs sheet)



Its alway better to go up but guess you got no choice if size is the issue and you cant source what you need...see what others think thought

Cheers

[gonzo0815]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

I would just use the 6.3v part too. You usually never need 10v parts on a board.
And 1500uF 6.3v 8mm is a very common value, where every of the major brand is offering a suitable replacement.

[Logistics]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Okay, the only cap I ended up having a problem with are the 1500uF 6.3V guys. The FM's only come in a 10mm while the Teapo's were 8mm and there are four of the spots on the board which are too tight to put the 10mm's SO I have to order four 8mm guys, which don't exist in a 1500uF anywhere in the Digikey catalog. BUT, I can get a 1200uF 6.3V in an 8mm. What is the really important part here? Because the original Teapo's spec out this way:

SC (8mm) 1500uF 6.3V ESR=0.085 Ripple=980mA

While a Panasonic specs out this way:

FM (8mm) 1200uF 6.3V ESR=0.030 Ripple=1560mA

I thought it was said that the capacitance isn't so important as long as it's close and the above specs are good, which in this case they are significantly better! Can I just put these 1200uF jobbers in place of the original junk?

[starfury1]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

being in mind, its plus minus 20 percent of 1200 or uf 1500 uf

As I said does some what depend on were they are being used for to what specs are being exploited.

If they are part of the VRM then you are reducing the total capacitance by about 1200uf nominal
but they also could be as much as 1440uf or a little as 760uf
(if I got the plus minus thing right)

They are a much better device for VRM use
so yeah if your not overclocking this thing or pushing it
to the edge I can't see why not.
Also if there is an extra positions empty for them in the VRM then put more in
(looks like not if this is the same as yours here )


If they are just dotted all over the place then yeah no worries.

Unfortunately I didn't order any 8mm's (EEUFM0J122L) so cant give you any measured specs but the 10mm 1200uf (nominal) ones (EEUFM0J122)
above measured at 1400 plus uF. (on 2 different meters)
(not saying the batch you get would be the same thought)

the 1500 uf came in close to 1500 plus (tens)

if as you say the crap teapos were running it then yeah FM's should do the job even if the capacitance is a bit lower.
(their better specs should hopefully compensate for less capacitance)

BTW have you tried TC for what you need?

anyway if it was me
id try them and see, thats my opinion, I think it will be ok...but not the guru here either.

Cheers

[tazwegion]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Hmmmm... 8mm x 20mm (roughly), have you checked out the SamXon offerings? I know for sure they have a 1500uF (GD series) in that size, with an ESR of 0.019 Ω & ripple of 1870 mA more @ SamXon Specifications list

[Logistics]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Let's see... what I believe is the VRM stage, the largest onboard inductors and fets or VR's are accompanied by too very large 4700uF Nichicon canister type caps and then the CPU slot itself is surrounded by 5 3300uF caps, which is no problem. The 1500's are sprawled all over the place. Two are between the motherboards input cable and the RAM slots(2 of the 4 I can't fit), three others are next to some other minor VRM looking equipment on the other side of the RAM slots, the last three of them are next to the AGP and a PCI slot(another 2 of which I can't fit).

TC? Yeah, but unfortunately I can't use my PayPal account because it's locked. I have found that others have this problem and PP won't do anything about it. Otherwise I would have used BadCaps from the beginning.

And yes, I had hoped to try Samxon, but unless I can find a way to get PP to detach my bank account from my old locked account and attach it to my new account, I can't do anything aside from close my bank account and open another, which I'm not about to do. Hehe! :p

[starfury1]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Yeah I sort of remember you mention that before now with PP

if they are dotted all over the place
I can't really see a problem using the 8mm FM 1200 uf's
(bugger re the link above anyway) here an articule with piccie
(blame google picture search )

Seems they are just by pass etc and not part of the VRM so yeah I dont see a problem. unless any one else does?

If you lucky the bag might be more like 1500uf anyway , although can size, batch may alter the figure from the one's I measured

BTW the 2200 uf @ 6V3 I have measured more like 2000 uf each so you can see the figure really is nominal.

sorry I didn't order a bag of the others for comparison.

Well good luck with it Logistics
better then the crapola that was there

The VRM input would be the big 4700uf and the outputs 3300uf most likely from what I can tell from the picture
(these are the ones to really worry about ESR with)

Cheers

[gastorgrab]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Better?



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[tazwegion]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

I closed my old CBA account and never bothered to notify PayPal, after opening a new account I just went in and deleted the old & set up the new (including the 2 verification payments)...

Going by the payment types accepted listed on TC's main page, PayPal isn't your only option, money order, check & credit card payments are also available... so why not drop a PM to TC and organise some easy-to-fit 8mm 1500uF components of your choice?

Save a headache perhaps?

[starfury1]

Re: Watch the physical size of caps!

Better...... thanks gastorgrab

yes Taz always better a tad more capacitance
(so if you can workout something with TC so much the better)

Here is a trim of the VRM circuit above,
(I am not totally sure if the 2 caps near the ATX connector are part of it
but 5 X 3300 = 16,500 uf 3 x 3300 = 9,900 uf)
I suspect they are thought



Someone here could tell you for sure

Cheers