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Which caps to replace: ECS P4M800Pro-M V1.0A

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    Which caps to replace: ECS P4M800Pro-M V1.0A

    It's feeling like this board has a case of badcaps, instability and reboots - and not wanting to necro a a very old thread, it seems the 680uF 4V are highly suspect.
    I don't really want to blanket recap everything, but maybe the others around that area could do with being changed?

    Equipment: I have a temperature controlled soldering station, read the bit where it says set to 400F, don't think I would have gone that high without reading that.
    Spring plunger solder sucker, and some desolder braid... and a bit of good old leaded 60/40.

    PS. Additional diagnostic, after setting speedstep to minimum and turning off C1E, it did get into Memtest, where I'd never succeeded before, making me pretty sure that unstable power delivery is the problem

    #2
    If you're replacing those caps, you should also replace the VRM caps as they are what makes sure that the CPU gets good voltage and has enough current to function properly (see circle in uploaded picture for location of caps recommended to replace, your board might be a little different, but you get the idea). I would order all of the capacitors in one go just in case and only solder in the ones needed, but that's your choice. Let me know the brand and model of the caps if you want recommendations, otherwise, you can always look through the Datasheet Depot and try to find replacements yourself.
    Click image for larger version

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      #3
      Yeah, guess it's best to do the whole job... this is the board img-9133front-6645fb375eb63958085697.jpg (3105×3015)
      The filling of those positions vary on other versions, with 9 of the short 680 4J instead of 6 and the 3 black ones, so I guess they are all post VRM, while the other 4 are pre-VRM. Don't have as many suppliers in the UK, the big ones seem to be mostly bulk / high minimum order.
      Aliexpress would probably be a bad idea?? I mean, I like the prices but are they going to be what it says they are.
      I suppose I ought to do the RAM VRM ones at the other edge, not sure which is the AGP VRM - maybe it's linear

      Comment


        #4
        RS has good price on poly's for the vrm output and panasonic FR for the 12v input.
        gonna get a handling charge for orders under £50 though,
        or CPC has a minimum free delivery limit of £20 but less of a selection of caps

        Comment


          #5
          Examined board closely...
          By CPU, cooking under heatsink, 6x 680uF 4v TMJ, looking closer, the 2 on one side look like they have blown their bungs, glad to see that as now I can be pretty certain I'm looking at the culprits
          Spaced away, 3x 1800uF 6.3V KZJ - I'm guessing they are also CPU VRM side as other versions mix up the use of those and the short ones
          12v side, 4x OST 1500uF 16V

          Rest of the board, MANY OST 1000uF 6.3V, if OST are really bad, then I'm in big trouble, but their positions are probably not as critical
          Now to read some more of the badcaps list

          If I take it from RS, any reason not to go with the Wurth Elektronik at £0.206 ea (pk 5 - 2 packs)
          For the second, Rubycon at £0.223 ea (pk 10) more than I need
          For the 3rd, oh, back to Wurth at £0.165 ea (pk 5)
          And some Panasonic 1000uF 6.3V to cover the last ones - I don't really want to do all the less important ones, well, depends how good at it I get, ah, I DO have another dead board I could practice on

          Comment


            #6
            use kemet polymer for the 680's atleast because height matters.

            the thing about OST is if they arent cooked they seem super reliable, i have AT psu's that had working ost's in them.

            Comment


              #7
              Both the Wurth and the Kemet come up as 8mm round by 8mm tall in the specs, also, I guess lead spacing is another parameter I haven't checked... both 3.5mm - hopefully that is standard for what they were

              Comment


                #8
                lead spacing seems to be standard related to diameter

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mattz_GT View Post
                  Examined board closely...
                  By CPU, cooking under heatsink, 6x 680uF 4v TMJ, looking closer, the 2 on one side look like they have blown their bungs, glad to see that as now I can be pretty certain I'm looking at the culprits
                  Spaced away, 3x 1800uF 6.3V KZJ - I'm guessing they are also CPU VRM side as other versions mix up the use of those and the short ones
                  12v side, 4x OST 1500uF 16V

                  Rest of the board, MANY OST 1000uF 6.3V, if OST are really bad, then I'm in big trouble, but their positions are probably not as critical
                  The 680 uF 4V UCC TMJ (is it really TMJ series??) definitely need to go. Many of their TM--- series are prone to failure, especially when used around the CPU VRM of a motherboard.
                  The 1800 uF 6.3V KZJ are also quite problematic (as are KZG with the same capacitance and voltage spec... and in general.)
                  The 4x OST (I'm gonna guess they are dark blue with gold writing and RLX series) 1500 uF 16V *probably* should be replaced, just in case... even though I find these to be a lot less likely to fail.
                  The small 6.3V 1000 uF OST (RLP series??) may be problematic too, or maybe not (see info further in my post below.) I'd replace at least a few of them around the RAM and chipset (Northbridge and Southbridge) areas.



                  Originally posted by Mattz_GT View Post
                  If I take it from RS, any reason not to go with the Wurth Elektronik at £0.206 ea (pk 5 - 2 packs)
                  For the second, Rubycon at £0.223 ea (pk 10) more than I need
                  For the 3rd, oh, back to Wurth at £0.165 ea (pk 5)
                  And some Panasonic 1000uF 6.3V to cover the last ones - I don't really want to do all the less important ones, well, depends how good at it I get, ah, I DO have another dead board I could practice on
                  What series of these caps are you planning to use? Like to the exact product would be nice to see, just to make sure you're not buying some general purpose 85C caps or the like.

                  In regard to the aliexpress comment in your previous post... YES, it's better to avoid AliEXP for electrolytic caps, because you may not get good quality ones (especially if the listing makes no mention of the brand or series specifically.) However, I have heard that when it comes to polymers, AliEXP is not that bad. Actually, most stored that are operating on Ebay probably also have an AliEXP store front too. Still, I myself prefer ebay. Here's for example some quality polymers that come from a seller that I'd consider trustworthy (they've been on there for a long time.)
                  https://www.ebay.com/itm/235599133044

                  Originally posted by stj View Post
                  the thing about OST is if they arent cooked they seem super reliable, i have AT psu's that had working ost's in them.
                  Funny you say that. I was just playing around with some black OST RLP's on my bench that I pulled from a Biostar motherboard a few years back, due to seeing a few of the same kind already bulged. I was hoping I could re-use them in non-critical areas (3.3V rail near PCI slots and 5V filter for USB) on another old motherboard. What's funny is that they all read 30-50% over their stated capacitance - i.e. around 1300-1500 uF when they should be just 1000 uF. Clearly they've become electrically leaky. But outside, they look perfectly fine. And no, these were all far away from heat sources. The ones that weren't on that BIostar motherboard were already bulged/bust.

                  So I think with OST it really depends on the series and also on the specific batch. For example, I have older OST RLP with same capacitance and voltage rating (1000 uF 6.3V) from three different boards that are still completely fine after all these years. At the same time, I have another board that had all of its OST RLP caps go bad in a similar fashion. So it seems some batches of the RLP series are OK and some were not. The same seems to apply to their other series too - e.g. RLX. I find old RLX to be pretty reliable in 10 mm diameter and the higher voltages (10V rating or more), but the smaller 8 mm diameter and only 6.3V rated ones to turn "iffy" over time. I think their RLS series seem to be the most stable from the bunch... but even these I have seen failed.
                  So I always take OST with caution. If none have ever gone bad on a board and a few read well within their parameters when tested, then I may leave them alone for a little while longer or until failed. But if I see one or two failed from a certain batch, they all need to go from that batch.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by momaka View Post
                    Funny you say that. I was just playing around with some black OST RLP's on my bench that I pulled from a Biostar motherboard a few years back, due to seeing a few of the same kind already bulged. I was hoping I could re-use them in non-critical areas (3.3V rail near PCI slots and 5V filter for USB) on another old motherboard. What's funny is that they all read 30-50% over their stated capacitance - i.e. around 1300-1500 uF when they should be just 1000 uF. Clearly they've become electrically leaky. But outside, they look perfectly fine. And no, these were all far away from heat sources. The ones that weren't on that BIostar motherboard were already bulged/bust.

                    So I think with OST it really depends on the series and also on the specific batch. For example, I have older OST RLP with same capacitance and voltage rating (1000 uF 6.3V) from three different boards that are still completely fine after all these years. At the same time, I have another board that had all of its OST RLP caps go bad in a similar fashion. So it seems some batches of the RLP series are OK and some were not. The same seems to apply to their other series too - e.g. RLX. I find old RLX to be pretty reliable in 10 mm diameter and the higher voltages (10V rating or more), but the smaller 8 mm diameter and only 6.3V rated ones to turn "iffy" over time. I think their RLS series seem to be the most stable from the bunch... but even these I have seen failed.
                    So I always take OST with caution. If none have ever gone bad on a board and a few read well within their parameters when tested, then I may leave them alone for a little while longer or until failed. But if I see one or two failed from a certain batch, they all need to go from that batch.
                    Funny enough, the only OST cap I've seen fail was an RLG series - their general purpose 105C caps. It was in a Bestec power supply though (in a Dell Vostro 200), so it probably wasn't set up for a long life.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Cap choices....
                      870025174008 | Wurth Elektronik 680μF Through Hole Polymer Capacitor, 6.3V dc | RS (WCAP-PTG5) or A750KK687M0JAAE016 | KEMET 680μF Through Hole Polymer Capacitor, 6.3V dc | RS (A750)
                      2000H 105C 5100mA ripple 10mOhm / .. 4100mA ripple 16mOhm - so the Wurth are superior? Checked again, definitely read TMJ on those.
                      The 1800uF are 3.5mm pitch, that narrows my choice to one Panasonic 1800μF Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitor 6.3V dc, Radial, Through Hole - EEUFS0J182L | RS (FS)
                      The 1500uF 16V are 5mm pitch Wurth Elektronik 1500μF Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitor 16V dc, Radial, Through Hole - 860010375019 | RS (WCAP-ATG8) ...only 1100mA ripple ..Nichicon 1500μF Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitor 16V dc, Radial, Through Hole - UPW1C152MHD | RS (PW) better... only other option that are bagged 5
                      Struggling to pick the 1000uF 6.3V, searching for longer lifetime rating takes me to Rubycon 1000μF Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitor 6.3V dc, Radial, Through Hole - 6.3YXJ1000M8X11.5 | RS - Rubycon YXJ

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by momaka View Post
                        The 680 uF 4V UCC TMJ (is it really TMJ series??) definitely need to go. Many of their TM--- series are prone to failure, especially when used around the CPU VRM of a motherboard.
                        The 1800 uF 6.3V KZJ are also quite problematic (as are KZG with the same capacitance and voltage spec... and in general.)
                        The 4x OST (I'm gonna guess they are dark blue with gold writing and RLX series) 1500 uF 16V *probably* should be replaced, just in case... even though I find these to be a lot less likely to fail.
                        The small 6.3V 1000 uF OST (RLP series??) may be problematic too, or maybe not (see info further in my post below.) I'd replace at least a few of them around the RAM and chipset (Northbridge and Southbridge) areas.
                        1. TMJ... look like this 680uf-4v-8x8mm-tmv.jpg (1000×1000) says TMV, but pictures TMJ
                        3. Yes, that's what they look like
                        4. They are RLS.

                        Comment

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