Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

[ZnsaneRyder]

For you TV gurus, which TV would be a good platform for upgrading parts to make an ultra-reliable TV that will run for 10-20 years, and does not require hard to get or obsolete parts years later.

1. Which TV does NOT regularly kill mainboards, Tcon, or other Digital boards
2. Which TV was built WELL, but only has failures with bad caps that are known to fail that can be upgraded to superior ones?
3. Which TV always fails MOSFETS, DIODES, or CAPACITORS on the PSU, but never fails any of the other boards, just the power supply? That would be the PERFECT candidate for upgrading with Over-Spec parts that will outlast the intended lifetime.

Which TV would be the one you would recommend?

[Alastair E]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

Look at something CRT based, everything built since then is too digital built after 2006 and therefore lead-free and crap.

[stj]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

forgetting the lead-attack, yes - something CRT based.
and preferably NOT one of the widescreen tubes with a narrow neck - the guns short-out on those after a few years!

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

Crt based with fans too cool the Pcb, and everything has re-in forced solder pads with extra solder.

[ZnsaneRyder]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

OK, I have to agree, CRT for the win. (I only use flat-screen CRT for all my computers).


What about LCD ? I was thinking of modding an LCD to make it better. I am already doing an LED project to upgrade the LED LCD TV to better LED that won't burn out.

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

Lcd is junk all around avoid lucky if Lcd lasts 10 years ! Plasma maybe, if you get something like a Pioneer Kuro and add some fans to help it cool even though they dont get hot best to just give it that little boost. Also Dlp are stupid the lamp fails after a few thousand hours of use as well as the dlp Ic and the image quality is just crap.

[tom66]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

Why CRT? Shit picture quality, horrible 15kHz whine (for those of us with good hearing), flicker, picture size varying with brightness, mediocre focus...whatever. I know there's an automatic love on this forum of anything old, the idea that the old times were better, but let's be honest, no one wants a 300 lb Sony 36" CRT that sucks 300W more-or-less continuously when you can have a 42" Panasonic plasma that weighs only 100 lb and consumes half the average power and gives you a full HD image.

Sure some CRTs last ages. But many died early on, too. CRT technology is only reliable because it has been refined over 70+ years.

There is nothing wrong with a well designed plasma display or even LCD display - they can be sufficiently reliable and I would say better than 99% of CRTs that were produced.

Boeing and Airbus use LCDs for flight computers... NASA replaced flight computer displays with LCDs in shuttle upgrades... And military equipment often uses old plasma monitors too.

Lcd is junk all around avoid lucky if Lcd lasts 10 years ! Plasma maybe, if you get something like a Pioneer Kuro and add some fans to help it cool even though they dont get hot best to just give it that little boost. Also Dlp are stupid the lamp fails after a few thousand hours of use as well as the dlp Ic and the image quality is just crap.

DLP with LED bulb looks pretty nice but I still prefer a plasma or OLED display.

Still my brother has a Full HD 3D projector that cost £2k new, it's still running on the original bulb, although he only uses it for the odd movie. If you're that kind of person a projector works fine.

And there's nothing junk about LCD when designed right.

[stj]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

Why CRT? Shit picture quality, horrible 15kHz whine (for those of us with good hearing), flicker, picture size varying with brightness, mediocre focus...whatever.

you must have had some really shit tv's - sounds like Orion sets.

good tv's are silent (no loose coils or yoke windings),
dont flicker because they arent using monitor tubes with short persistance phosphor,
and the brightness control does not effect the power to the scancoils.
as for the focus - adjust it of fix the damned HT first!

the problem with being too young or only working in a workshop - you only see stuff that's broken or shit.

[stj]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

Boeing and Airbus use LCDs for flight computers... NASA replaced flight computer displays with LCDs in shuttle upgrades... And military equipment often uses old plasma monitors too.

that's different, flight crt's have to be magnetically shielded and it's expensive.
if you re-orientate a crt while it's on you can have gausing problems and throw the focus out because of the earth's magnetic poles effecting the tube.

when i worked in amusement machines we knew this problem well,
move a machine to face a different direction and you have to re-power it to get it to de-gaus the tube.

[tom66]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

you must have had some really shit tv's - sounds like Orion sets.

good tv's are silent (no loose coils or yoke windings),
dont flicker because they arent using monitor tubes with short persistance phosphor,
and the brightness control does not effect the power to the scancoils.
as for the focus - adjust it of fix the damned HT first!

the problem with being too young or only working in a workshop - you only see stuff that's broken or shit.

I'm talking about CRT TVs. CRT monitors are less bad because the design is usually better and the scan frequency is higher. Still, they are heavy, suck a ton of power and take up unnecessary desk space. How much space do I save with dual 24" LCDs vs two 24" CRT behemoths? I couldn't have the same productivity that I do with LCDs.

Most CRT TVs share a common horizontal scan and flyback signal. So, if the tube draws more current (due to higher brightness) the picture size in the horizontal axis will change. Don't believe me? Look at any CRT television as the picture varies...the picture size will also change! Also, often, the B+ is regulated off the flyback, and the B+ controls the vertical scan, so that may well change too. Sony HD CRTs and most monitors used separate scan and flyback circuits, but that was always an added expense and never a standard feature.

Focus goes beyond the focus voltage. The colours are often slightly misaligned creating fringing, even on the best Sony CRTs. This is most noticeable on CRT TVs though. LCD or plasma doesn't have this.

And weight? The total weight of my monitor set up is less than 40kg and can be mounted on a simple clamp bracket. I'd need to reinforce the floor to put in two 24" CRTs.

Flicker: my LCDs don't flicker at all (I've checked with a high speed camera), but CRT monitors flicker at 60Hz **regardless of phosphor persistence!** That's not too bad for a TV (plasma do the same, 600Hz but with 120Hz component) but it's completely unacceptable for a monitor which I'm in front of 8+ hours a work day.

[tom66]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

that's different, flight crt's have to be magnetically shielded and it's expensive.
if you re-orientate a crt while it's on you can have gausing problems and throw the focus out because of the earth's magnetic poles effecting the tube.

Magnetic shielding is part of the problem but the other saving is in power consumption and power dissipation. This is especially critical in the case of the space shuttle where power is limited by an 8kW fuel cell and power dissipation is very difficult (vacuum of space means you can only radiate heat via blackbody losses.) It's also surprisingly important in modern aircraft as the density of electronic systems increases and cooling becomes more difficult.

[stj]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

i'v never seen a tv with B+ regulated from the flyback, it's always come from a switchnig psu or a linear dropper fed from an optocoupler.

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

you must have had some really shit tv's - sounds like Orion sets.

good tv's are silent (no loose coils or yoke windings),
dont flicker because they arent using monitor tubes with short persistance phosphor,
and the brightness control does not effect the power to the scancoils.
as for the focus - adjust it of fix the damned HT first!

the problem with being too young or only working in a workshop - you only see stuff that's broken or shit.

Orion Tv's are very well built IMO I have a 32" and wow every cap is Rubycon ! And its been working for over 10 years still working today, not had to repair it.

[RCA2000]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

My take...A CRT set...with a CRT built like either the Zenith Chromacolor tubes or the Hitachi made tubes form the late--80'S--early 00's.. RCA uses a LOT of them...they just last and last... maybe even a MILITARY grade tube--with exrra heavy cathodes...

Chassis--bulit like a CTC 40-44 or Zenith flat chassis set. VRT power supply--SS hv rect and a SEPARATE post HV_reg--like a projo set or monitor uses. A PAIR or Horiz. out transistors on a BIG sink. Discrete Vert--out and video outs-- Discrete TUBE audio outs--maybe 7868- P-P or so.

120C caps. THROUGHOUT.

I t WOULD be HEAVY...but would last a GENERATION..

[tom66]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

i'v never seen a tv with B+ regulated from the flyback, it's always come from a switchnig psu or a linear dropper fed from an optocoupler.

Depends on the design. A lot of TVs switched away from using the main flyback as the primary SMPS converter as it is pretty lossy (high voltage design) however quite often in older CRTs it generated the B+ and other supplies (audio etc.)

The problem with the horizontal scan remains regardless. Picture size WILL change. And this is not a good thing if you enjoy watching a good quality image.

[stj]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

best CRT device ever = Electrohome G07
they just go on forever - even the caps last 20years before showing a problem!

[Alastair E]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

i'v never seen a tv with B+ regulated from the flyback, it's always come from a switchnig psu or a linear dropper fed from an optocoupler.

Come on, You Must remember Thorn Syclops, as from what you've said in past, I reckon you are similar age to me.....

--Bloody horrible things though, but SMPS was based round line o/p stage....

[stj]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

i remember some pye bastard-chassis that was rectified live with thumb-wheel pots on a vertical panel that almost always got you!
it was a tv, but it was often used without a tuner as an industrial open-frame monitor chassis!

and i remember philips KT3 modular chassis with a tripler too.
luckily i avoided thorn gear.

[michael dranfield]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

that's different, flight crt's have to be magnetically shielded and it's expensive.
if you re-orientate a crt while it's on you can have gausing problems and throw the focus out because of the earth's magnetic poles effecting the tube.

when i worked in amusement machines we knew this problem well,
move a machine to face a different direction and you have to re-power it to get it to de-gaus the tube.

And as far as I am aware military and medical applications are exempt from using lead free solder.

[michael dranfield]

Re: Build an Ultra-Reliable TV!

Come on, You Must remember Thorn Syclops, as from what you've said in past, I reckon you are similar age to me.....

--Bloody horrible things though, but SMPS was based round line o/p stage....

I have a brand new, still in its box re gunned thorn new life tube for the Thorn 9000 chassis, also still have parts in stock to repair all the early thorn sets, right down to the 1400 chassis !