VIZIO E470VA Dead

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  • bwilliams60
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2014
    • 109
    • Canada

    #21
    Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

    Good idea. I am going to knock off for the night. I will post back tomorrow after I have replaced it and tested. Thank you very much for your help. Very much appreciated and thanks to budm for your help. Good forum to belong to!

    Comment

    • budm
      Badcaps Legend
      • Feb 2010
      • 40746
      • USA

      #22
      Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

      Glad to hear that the hair dryer trick works for you (I was going to tell you to check the DCV on that cap but I think it was too dangerous for you to be working in the primary side based on how you were measuring the Voltage on the primary side in post 1, and I do not want you to get hurt or cause more damage if something bad happens). So you fixed the TV with 50 cents part and save lots of money and the TV from the landfill.
      Last edited by budm; 08-10-2015, 07:18 PM.
      Never stop learning
      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

      Inverter testing using old CFL:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

      TV Factory reset codes listing:
      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

      Comment

      • retiredcaps
        Badcaps Legend
        • Apr 2010
        • 9271

        #23
        Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

        I haven't looked at capacitor datasheets in probably 2 years now and was a bit surprised to find that the Panasonic FC 10uF 50V cap has the following characteristics.



        Ripple = 125 mA
        Impedance = 1.300 Ohm
        Endurance = 1000 hours at 105C

        The 1000 hours is pretty low. For every 10C decrease, endurance doubles. Thus,

        1000 @ 105C
        2000 @ 95C
        4000 @ 85C
        8000 @ 75C
        16000 @ 65C
        32000 @ 55C
        64000 @ 45C

        Now, my guess is that the average TV runs in the 55C range when ON. It might be 25C when in standby mode? If correct, that is roughly 5 to 6 years? The Vizio TV set you have might be 5 years old?

        So I did a quick search for Rubycon and found

        https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...4d451e9517.pdf

        The Rubycon XJY has

        Ripple = 100 mA
        Impedance = 1.5 Ohm
        Endurance = 5000 hours at 105C

        meaning

        5000 @ 105C
        10000 @ 95C
        20000 @ 85C
        40000 @ 75C
        80000 @ 65C
        160000 @ 55C
        320000 @ 45C

        Now the ripple on the YXJ is slightly worse and impedance is slightly higher than the FC, but it might be on par or better than the original capacitor? What is the brand and series of the original? Samwha?

        YXJ is slightly cheaper too (36 cents CDN at digikey.ca or 2 cents USD with current exchange rate - hahaha)!

        Anyway, now that I'm aware of this, my future orders will probably go with YXJ.

        PS. United Chemi-con KY series has exact same characteristics as Rubycon YXJ for 35 cents CDN at digikey.ca.

        Last edited by retiredcaps; 08-10-2015, 07:47 PM.
        --- begin sig file ---

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        We respectfully ask that you make some time and effort to read some of the guides available for basic troubleshooting. After you have read through them, then ask clarification questions or report your findings.

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        Comment

        • bwilliams60
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2014
          • 109
          • Canada

          #24
          Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

          Originally posted by budm
          Glad to hear that the hair dryer trick works for you (I was going to tell you to check the DCV on that cap but I think it was too dangerous for you to be working in the primary side based on how you were measuring the Voltage on the primary side in post 1, and I do not want you to get hurt or cause more damage if something bad happens). So you fixed the TV with 50 cents part and save lots of money and the TV from the landfill.
          Thank you for worrying. Is there a post on here somewhere that details the best way to test the primary side of an SMPS? I know I should use an isolation transformer which I haven't got yet, but what else might I need to know? Thank you in advance for your help.

          Comment

          • bwilliams60
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2014
            • 109
            • Canada

            #25
            Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

            And so, TV repair #1 is now under my belt thanks to budm and retiredcaps. You guys have provided excellent mentoring and the $0.50 cap ($0.10 US, lol) did the trick. Much obliged for the lessons and looking forward to some more down the road.
            Now back to my own Samsung display that also appears to be dead and at a dead end on another thread.
            Thanks for the help!

            Comment

            • bwilliams60
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2014
              • 109
              • Canada

              #26
              Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

              I'm back. Perhaps I spoke too soon or perhaps I am just doing something wrong. So I plug the set in and a nice crisp screen comes up with the Vizio logo and I can pull up the menu (no remote) by pushing the buttons but I don't get any channels? I try to do an autochannel select and as soon as I go to start, it says it is done. Still no channels. I guess I should hook up another source (DVD ?) and see if it plays?
              Question 2. When I do get this working, can I program a Universal remote to work with this set? Thank you in advance.

              Comment

              • budm
                Badcaps Legend
                • Feb 2010
                • 40746
                • USA

                #27
                Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                The universal remote should work. Are you on cable or you trying to pick up the signal over the air?
                Never stop learning
                Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                Inverter testing using old CFL:
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                TV Factory reset codes listing:
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                Comment

                • bwilliams60
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 109
                  • Canada

                  #28
                  Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                  I am on cable and I checked my cable with another TV and it works fine. When I go to autochannel to program the channels, it goes from 0% to 100% instantly and says done and there is no sign of any channels.

                  Comment

                  • bwilliams60
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 109
                    • Canada

                    #29
                    Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                    UPDATE:
                    Okay we are back on track. Apparently if you don't have a set top box and are just using normal cable, you need to set it to antenna. Did that and all good. Beautiful picture on this set.
                    Imagine, reading an owner's manual can help you solve some of life's smallest problems

                    Comment

                    • budm
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 40746
                      • USA

                      #30
                      Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                      Good.
                      Never stop learning
                      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                      Inverter testing using old CFL:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                      TV Factory reset codes listing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                      Comment

                      • bwilliams60
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 109
                        • Canada

                        #31
                        Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                        Thanks again budm for checking in. Appreciate the help.

                        Comment

                        • bwilliams60
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 109
                          • Canada

                          #32
                          Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                          I guess I did speak too soon. I have been turning this one on and off at random and now the same thing is going on.I turn it on, Vizio light may or may not come on and then nothing. Voltage on main caps is around 370VDC for a bit and then falls down to 162VDC. At this point, it won't turn on. If I heat up the area that we replaced the cap in, unit will come on and work. There is something there labelled FB108. Does anybody know what this is? Right side of power supply board in 5V section. Seems discolored.

                          Comment

                          • budm
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 40746
                            • USA

                            #33
                            Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                            FB108 is more likely to be Ferrite Bead inductor, it should have <1 Ohms of resistance.
                            Never stop learning
                            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                            Inverter testing using old CFL:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                            TV Factory reset codes listing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                            Comment

                            • bwilliams60
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2014
                              • 109
                              • Canada

                              #34
                              Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                              I placed my ohmmeter across it and it does indeed have less than 1 ohm across it. In fact I can't even get a measurement on it it is so low but there is definitely continuity. Budm is there anything else in that section that may cause this and how can I test for it.
                              I have tested all the diodes cold and they are all okay (.522). I am ssuming because I am in the 5V section I can put my meter to chassis ground. Can I measure voltages to the VIPER KB2105 chip or the KT2222A/KTN2907A transistors or the three Everlight BC115 chips. I know when I warm that area for less than 1 minute, the TV will work fine afterwards.

                              Comment

                              • jetadm123
                                Badcaps Legend
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 2169

                                #35
                                Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                                Since the problem is heat related, maybe a bad solder joint? Try touching up the joints in the 5V section budm outlined earlier.

                                Comment

                                • bwilliams60
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Aug 2014
                                  • 109
                                  • Canada

                                  #36
                                  Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                                  I removed the board and inspected again. I still don't see any bad joints and I am posting pics. Perhaps someone else can see it.
                                  Attached Files

                                  Comment

                                  • bwilliams60
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Aug 2014
                                    • 109
                                    • Canada

                                    #37
                                    Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                                    Bump

                                    Comment

                                    • Agent24
                                      I see dead caps
                                      • Oct 2007
                                      • 4913
                                      • New Zealand

                                      #38
                                      Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                                      Look again. There are some joints which look cracked - you can see a slight ring next to the arrows I have added.

                                      Use your iron on all the through-hole component joints in that area an add a touch more solder to reflow all the joints.

                                      Also try to upload JPG files as they can be previewed more easily.
                                      Attached Files
                                      "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                                      -David VanHorn

                                      Comment

                                      • bwilliams60
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Aug 2014
                                        • 109
                                        • Canada

                                        #39
                                        Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                                        Good eye. I will reflow all the joints in that area and get back to you. One other thing I did was check the optocouplers and the one in the middle gave me readings on both sides in both directions where the two outside ones did not. When I say that, I mean both directions on the diode side and both directions on the transistor side. Would this be because it is in the circuit or should all three read the same?

                                        Comment

                                        • Agent24
                                          I see dead caps
                                          • Oct 2007
                                          • 4913
                                          • New Zealand

                                          #40
                                          Re: VIZIO E470VA Dead

                                          If they are all identical parts they should all have the same readings, but yes, in-circuit readings may be affected by other connected components so to test properly you'd need to remove and compare all of them out-of-circuit.
                                          "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                                          -David VanHorn

                                          Comment

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