Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Eh... the motion processor's probably about $10... there's a lot you can get done with commodity high-performance DSPs these days. There's a little more expense in making the LCD panel 120Hz capable, but not much more. N.B. I have seen some recent Toshiba, Vizio and Samsung with motion interpolation on the main board, but it's most often on the T-con, and sometimes on a separate in-between board on the older models.

600Hz plasma means 12 subfields at 50Hz, for 12-bit colour, the image is only 50Hz. Only a few plasmas have true frame creation, older Panasonic PZ82 and G10, but they dropped it later, because it really doesn't improve picture quality and is a sales gimmick.

[cashkennedy]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Oh so I can finally not only laugh at all my friends who brag their plasma has 600hz, but also prove to them they are total retards?

Though the fact that theres no pixel switch time(gtg refresh rate) on plasma tends to make the motion look smoother then when you have ghosting.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Well, yeah, 600Hz plasma == 50Hz LCD if the LCD had zero blur. A real LCD has about 5ms ghosting. A real plasma has sub millisecond ghosting (0.1 msec to 0.5 msec.) Below 1 msec the eye cannot usually see the difference.

Then again the plasma panel does flash the image 600 times a second. A 240Hz LCD is just a 120Hz LCD with backlight blinking, the image flashes 240 times a second but the frames only change 120 times a second. And it's the same business for a 480Hz LCD. No difference at all. So in that way 600Hz plasma is similar to 600Hz LCD, if one existed.

Now Panasonic has some crazy 3000Hz subfield drive in their latest plasmas, I have NO idea how that works. I need to set up a highspeed camera in front of it. And I'm watching an older Panasonic PDP with a "mere" 480Hz panel. Oh no, I'm not sure how I'll live without another meaningless specification.

[cashkennedy]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

at 5ms an lcd panel could change the pixel 200 times per second. if it is 5ms it spends 1/4 of its time changing basically, and 3/4 displaying the correct color. Old lcds when they first came out were 25-8 depending on the colors and so on. for the last few years most panels have been in the 16-5 range depending on the color, which is good enough that you wont see ghosting on moving text / or pretty much anything other then maybe golf / hockey. so regardless of the 120hz / motion extrapolation , a modern basic 60hz will be "good enough" for pretty much everyone

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Exactly.

The problem TV manufacturers have is they are getting so close to the ideal image that there won't be any way to improve it.

Frankly, when (if) OLED comes out, I predict a stagnation of TV tech. Infinite contrast ratio. Zero response time. High energy efficiency. Excellent colour accuracy. 4K capable in small screen sizes. Zero 3D crosstalk. It'll just be like CRTs.

I mean, how do you improve on that? The only way you can is to tack on silly gimmicks, and we're only seeing the start of it. The silly gimmicks make it harder to sell used TVs for me, I try to pick up 100Hz TVs as often as possible but they're fairly new when they die so I don't usually see them for good prices.

70 years of OLED/other tech like FED/SED until holographic 3D?

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

So the TV didn't run much. When I came home it was blinking an error code #12.
But at least while it ran it had a beautiful picture.
This still proves, that the T-con is the faulty one?

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Well, it proves that the T-con and some other board is at fault. Haven't checked what #12 is but sounds like backlight error from memory.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

There is only one T-con board on the Ebay, do you think that the T-con is the issue with the original mainboard?

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Yes.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I have received the "new" T-con board and the result it's not good.
To me it seems like the "new" boards is defective as well.
What do you think?

[Sevenqi]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Please try to disable the DRC: picture --Adjustment --DRC to 'off'.
if the vertical lines disappear, you have to do this to all inputs with each picture modes.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I'm going to agree with you Tibi if those noise patterns weren't there before. I have received dud T-con with similar fault though affecting only the green. What was that about "WORKING AND TESTED"?

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I showed both pictures to the Ebay seller and he is saying that I have a bad tab bonding issue.
It is possible?
He is saying, that he is sure that the board it's good.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

No. Tab bonds would not cause that. You did not see the noise image on the original with the bars, right? Both boards are faulty in different ways, he did not test his. He is bullshitting you.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I'm not sure which one is that, but I have pictures in the first post.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

You are seeing two separate faults right?

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Post #1 is original T-con fault and post #30 is the Ebay T-con. Both show different problem.

[tom66]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

Yes.

So basic troubleshooting 101.......

You had symptom #1 with original part. You changed part. You know have symptom #2.

• If you had the SAME symptom, you may presume the board was not the fault.
  
  
• If the symptom disappeared, you would have fixed the TV, so that board was likely the cause.
  
  
• If the symptom changed it's obvious you've had some effect, but the board isn't 100% functional. Now, if you did not notice this fault with the original board, you have now introduced a new fault with a new board.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

You are right.
Some other TVs uses this board and I have read that these T-con boards fail a lot.

[tibimakai]

Re: Sony KDL-46W4100 vertical lines

I have sent back the board, but something doesn't seem right.
These guys are a repair shop(there name indicates, that they are more a laptop repair shop then TV) and they have a 100% feedback with a 1093 score.
http://myworld.ebay.com/i-trader05?_...p2047675.l2559
Do you guys think, that I should take apart the panel and check it out, before I order another board?