Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[rigmo]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Hi Guys Im from Croatia hobby player And Im burned my power supply.. im looking for schematic ... because my restors is burned in less then one second..
board is KY-2102A REV:1.3
If you can help me with schematic.. pleas.. i need to know values.
Im apologies for my bad english ..
thank you in advance
best regards

[rigmo]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

This is my problem

[kevin!]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I bring new photos of another PSU, this time it's from an AT, this is one of the best AT psu I have, it came from an ADLink industrial computer. according to UL, manufactured by ZIPPY TECHNOLOGY CORP.
Even the fan is of quality, this unit never ceases to amaze me.
The PSU has more than 50,000h, and still works (according to the smart parameters of the HDD that came from the same computer where the PSU comes from)

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Okay, might as well post my FSP.


Here it is, a FSP Bluestorm II 500W I got for $3. Had bulging Capxons in the secondary and 5vsb, althpugh the main cap (420uF 400V) is fine.

Replaced most caps with what I had on my hand, as well as a few caps from a dead Delta.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

And its a rather late part, end of 2007, so it should be fine and not have the "Material Issue". That's something that happened with this plattform in the 2005/2006 time frame.
And I doubt there are any left. At least lower wattage ones.

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I haven't seen any GLN/GLY low wattage here. Maybe a 350W PNF about 4-5 years ago but the store that had it has long since closed down.

Anyways, don't mind the primary cap looking like that. I was suspecting it was bulging when in fact it was the black plastic sheet over it that made it look that way, and I couldn't get it back there.

Great to hear that the later units (late 2007 onwards) are more reliable. Guess that doing the recap got me safe for another 10-20 years from now on? It's gonna power a Q9400 w/ 4GB DDR3 (planning for either 8 or 16GBs tho) and possibly a R9 270x in the future.

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Hi Guys Im from Croatia hobby player And Im burned my power supply.. im looking for schematic ... because my restors is burned in less then one second..
board is KY-2102A REV:1.3
If you can help me with schematic.. pleas.. i need to know values.

I doubt you will find a schematic for this particular power supply anywhere on the internet. However, there are several popular "generic" schematics floating around for the old crappy half-bridge PSUs.

Looking at your pictures, I want to say that power supply really is NOT worth repairing (or only for fun/learning.)

But if you really are deadset on repairing this, I'd suggest starting a new thread and posting all relevant pictures and information there. From what I can see here based on these pictures, that burned resistors appears to be part of your 5VSB circuit. So do this: plug in the power supply and see what voltage you get between the purple (5VSB wire) and ground (any black wire.) Should get 5V. If not, you have to troubleshoot that 5VSB circuit before anything else in the PSU will work. Speaking of which, that 5VSB circuit appears to be a 2-transistor design, and those are known to go in a puff of smoke when something goes bad, like the electrolytic caps on the output or the "critical" small startup cap (if this PSU has one.)

I bring new photos of another PSU, this time it's from an AT, this is one of the best AT psu I have, it came from an ADLink industrial computer. according to UL, manufactured by ZIPPY TECHNOLOGY CORP.

An eMacs PSU... Yup, those are as solid as a PSU can get: Japanese caps, nice fan, good quality parts throughout, and excellent soldering. But what I like the best: that blue "Pb" sticker, indicating leaded solder and components.
This was definitely made before the era of RoHS crap and of course would last a very long time.

I also like the automatic line voltage switch. This is a feature I've only seen before on certain Astec PSUs. On that note, Astec PSUs are of similar quality.

Here it is, a FSP Bluestorm II 500W I got for $3. Had bulging Capxons in the secondary and 5vsb, althpugh the main cap (420uF 400V) is fine.

Very nice deal for $3!!
Should be a solid PSU with the new caps now.
Only thing I suggest doing is adding a 2 to 4 uF polypropylene 450V or 630V in parallel with that main CapXon cap. This PP cap will soak up all of the high-frequency crap so that the CrapXon won't have to. Also, in the event that the CapXon primary cap does go bad (it more than likely will eventually, due to APFC), the PP cap should still present enough capacitance to prevent the primary side from blowing up. Otherwise, a blown open primary cap often leads to blown APFC components and sometimes even other ICs behind the APFC.

[kevin!]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

An eMacs PSU... Yup, those are as solid as a PSU can get: Japanese caps, nice fan, good quality parts throughout, and excellent soldering. But what I like the best: that blue "Pb" sticker, indicating leaded solder and components.
This was definitely made before the era of RoHS crap and of course would last a very long time.

I also like the automatic line voltage switch. This is a feature I've only seen before on certain Astec PSUs. On that note, Astec PSUs are of similar quality.

In that detail of the lead solders I had not noticed, you're right, those welds will never break. This PSU is for life .
I have an AT case to mount a computer for classic games based on a Pentium MMX, and I will use this great PSU.
If I am honest, I did not know the emacs (Zippy) brand, I was very surprised with its construction quality, and I am right, it is at Astec level.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I haven't seen any GLN/GLY low wattage here. Maybe a 350W PNF about 4-5 years ago but the store that had it has long since closed down.

I meant ~400-550W for the most part.

[japlytic]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Delta DPS-1400AB (IBM part 43X3254)

PFC board:
Chemi-Con KMM 470uF 450V x2
D25XB60 input rectifier
20N60 x2 PFC stage
RHRP3060 x2 PFC rectifier

Main board:
20N60 x2 (two sets) main converter
IPP054NE8N x4 (two sets) synchronous rectifier
3300uF 16V Nichicon HD x4 for 12V filter
80NF03L x4 output switching

Common to both: All electrolytic capacitors are Japanese units

[momaka]

HEC Orion HP585D

Oh what the HEC! –My turn to post something and hopefully keep this thread alive.

I still have a few PSUs on my repair pile that I’ve been trying to reduce over the years (as in, fix stuff). So for today’s post, I have a HEC Orion HP585D. This and its re-labeled versions (namely the ThermalTake TR2-430W a.k.a. XP550-NP) were popular low budget PSUs in the mid-late 2000’s that weren’t actually terrible or gutless wonders.




Yes, yes, that 585 Watt rating on the label (along with all of the individual current ratings on the rails) is a complete lie. You might wonder then why I’m posting this in the quality pictorial thread. But it’s the potential that this PSU holds (no pun intended ) is why I post it here. IIRC, HardwareSecrets tested the TR2-430W, and it help up fine all the way to ~350 Watts. Given this HEC PSU is the same exact unit (minus a few small things, which will be noted below), it too will do about 300 Watts continuous and maybe 350W peak. Of that, the 12V rail is limited to about 16-17 Amps – so right inline with most 250-300W OEM PSUs. Don’t believe me? Let’s see some pictures then.



Right away, I’m sure someone noticed the missing EMI/RFI filters on the inputs. That and the crap caps used inside this PSU are probably its only downfall. The ThermalTake TR2-430W mentioned above does come with the EMI/RFI filters installed, though (along with better/longer cable selection, sleeved cables, and painted case.) However, if recapped and with proper EMI/RFI filters installed, the HP585D can be a decent 250-Watt PSU. It has good amount of output filtering, adequate heatsinks (for 250-300W anyways), good airflow, and quite fair soldering quality

In terms of design, this PSU uses a bog-standard (and highly outdated for ATX PSUs nowadays) UC3843b current-mode PWM IC to drive a single-transistor forward converter circuit. The 5VSB is also very rudimentary, using the well-known 2-transistor self-oscillating 5VSB circuit. And it does have a 10 uF 50V “critical cap” that should be replaced (if anyone is recapping this PSU), even though it rarely fails on this particular PSU model (my TR2-430W is still going strong with all-original caps.) Picture of the primary side:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1576985654
As crude as it may be, the primary side for the main PS does have working OPP. I remember reading one review back in the day that repeatedly tried to overload and blow up this PSU, but couldn’t. Every time, the OPP shut down past a certain point (around 350 Watts, if I remember.)

Next, we move to the secondary side.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1576985654
If you wonder why there is only one output toroid, it’s because this PSU uses a MOSFET to generate the 3.3V rail in a linear fashion – hence the lack of a 3.3V toroid and mag-amp circuit. The PSU also has temperature-controlled fans, as evident by the thermistor on the secondary heatsink. On that note, the two fans are Young Lin Tech model DFS802012M, rated for 12V and 2 Watts. Caps, of course, are not Japanese - just a mix of Su’scon and Teapo, which isn’t that terrible, IMO. They usually tend to last a decent amount in this PSU model. All protections for the main PS are handled by a TPS3510 supervisory IC. Although this IC does not offer OCP, I think HEC might have implemented OCP on the 12V rail, as there is a jumper/shunt before the 12V wires (it’s not well visible in my pictures above).

Finally, the soldering:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1576985654
It’s OK – no major gobs of solder or leads that are too long. The PCB tracks are laid out well and have the proper separation between primary and secondary side. So despite looking like a cheap PSU with over-blown label and missing EMI/RFI components, it has a pretty reliable design. With good caps, it makes for a decent test/low-power PSU.
.
.
.
Detailed part list summary…

ICs:
UC3843b (PWM controller), TPS3510 (secondary-side supervisor), and 7912 linear regulator (-12V rail)

Wiring:
* 600V, 18 AWG input wiring
* 300V, 20 AWG output wiring, except ATX connector (mostly 18 AWG)
* Output connectors: 20+4pin ATX, 4-pin 12V CPU, 3x SATA, 4x Molex, 1x floppy

Primary Side:
* NO INPUT FILTERING!
* SCk 2R58 inrush current limiter and 2x MOVS for surge protection
* PEC FL406 bridge rectifier
* 2x CapXon GS, 200V, 680 uF, 18x42 mm, 85°C caps
* P10NK60Z MOSFET for main PS and HFS2N60 sMOSFET for 5VSB switching

Secondary Side:
* 5VSB
*** 1x Su’scon SC, 6.3V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm before PI coil
*** 1x Teapo SC, 16V, 330 uF, 8x12 mm after PI coil
*** PI coil: 6-turn, 20-AWG, 4 mm core
*** Load resistor: 27-Ohm, 2-Watt (That will eat ~1W of power in standby! )

* 3.3V Rail
*** 1x Su’scon SC, 6.3V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm before linear regulator
*** 1x Teapo SC, 10V, 1000 uF, 8x20 mm after linear regulator and PI coil
*** PI coil: 6-turn, 16-AWG, 5 mm core
*** Load resistor: 200-Ohm, ¼ -Watt
*** MBR3045PT rectifier and 09N30LA MOSFET for linear regulation

* 5V Rail
*** 1x Su’scon SC, 6.3V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm before PI coil
*** 1x Teapo SC, 10V, 1000 uF, 8x20 mm after PI coil
*** PI coil: 6-turn, 16-AWG, 5 mm core
*** Load resistor: 470-Ohm, ¼ -Watt
*** MBR4045PT rectifier

* 12V Rail
*** 1x Teapo SC, 16V, 2200 uF, 10x30 mm
*** 1x free cap spot for 6.3 mm dia. cap with 3 mm LS
*** PI coil: NONE. Rail has current shunt only
*** Load resistor: 2.7-KOhm, ¼ -Watt
*** MBR20100CT rectifier

* -12V Rail
*** 1x Teapo SC, 16V, 330 uF, 8x12 mm before 7912 linear regulator
*** 1x Su’scon SK, 16V, 470 uF, 8x13 mm before 7912 linear regulator
*** 1x Su’scon SK, 50V, 10 uF, 5x11 mm after 7912 linear regulator
*** PI coil: NONE
*** 1.5 or 2 Amp diode as rectifier

* -5 Rail
*** 1x Teapo SC, 6.3V, 1000 uF, 8x15
*** PI coil: NONE
*** Load resistor: 100-Ohm, ¼ -Watt
*** UF10_ diode as rectifier

The plan for this Orion HP585D PSU is to add the missing input filtering and probably even recap it. If I find some spare 6-pin PCI-E power cables, I might even add one on there, as my TR2-430W has one. I’ve used my TR2-430W before with a 70W TDP CPU and ~105W TDP GPU, and it handled it fine. So this can definitely work for a basic PC with an entry mid-level GPU around 60-100 Watts TDP.

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Smell gutless wonder all the way to me. Was it rated 400 W, that would likely be OK, lets say slightly underrated Fortron THN-P (BlueStorm) of that era. Labeling it almost 600 W and being a 300ish unit is just crap, nothing to really waste time about, IMO. Maybe if you put some 30amp schottky rectifier to that +12V rail, it could deliver some reasonable current.

But why? You can buy half-decent forward platforms with about 80% efficiency (this thing will be around 60 % if lucky) for a few buck now, such is worth recapping, not this.

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

But it's not a gutless wonder.

It's a decent 250-300 Watt power supply with crap label, that's all. It's even labeled as such right by the fuse. As long as you use it as that, it's actually a pretty reliable unit that won't randomly blow up on you or do crazy stuff when there's a brown-out.

Yes, I don't recommend anyone going out and buying one of these PSUs. It's missing the input filters and thus not really worthwhile getting unless one has those as spare parts already. That was actually my case: I got this PSU for free with a bundle of other PC parts. Didn't invest a single cent into it (yet) - just a bit of time to clean and install EMI/RFI filters I already had pulled from bad TV and other junk PSU boards. And since I've owned the ThermalTake version of this PSU for over 10 years now and it hasn't given me any problems (even with its original crap caps), I know it's a decent low-power PSU for a basic PC.

As for adding bigger rectifier on the 12V rail... not worth it.
It's hard to see on my pictures above, but there is actually a shunt for the 12V rail for OCP. Anything more than around 17 Amps will usually shut the PSU down (not to mention it's a group-regulated unit, so voltages aren't going to be that good - particularly the 5V rail.) Though if done, this may improve the efficiency a slight bit (not enough for me to care, though.) Speaking of which...

But why? You can buy half-decent forward platforms with about 80% efficiency (this thing will be around 60 % if lucky) for a few buck now, such is worth recapping, not this.

60%??
Where did you get that pessimistic number? Even cheapo gutless Deer PSUs from the early 2000's won't do that bad.

Efficiency is actually around ~76% average for this PSU, dipping to 70% minimum and 77-ish % maximum. Here is one of the reviews for it, actually:
https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/ther...supply-review/
Yeah, that's not good by any means, but I could care less. I don't run my PCs 24/7 and never saw a reason to do that. So for the few hours I use them per day, it's irrelevant - especially in the winter, where I actually need the heat anyways.

Efficient or not... one thing that bugs me about modern budget PSUs is that they tend to always come with AFPC - and that's a problem, because to make them cheap, the manufacturer typically ends up using an undersized or crap brand primary cap (or both). Not uncommon after some years for the primary cap to go bang. I'd rather deal with installing missing EMI/RFI filters and replacing output caps on an old unit like this than trying to fix the APFC section of a modern unit after it's blown up from a bad primary cap and shot some SMD parts into orbit that were almost impossible to identify to begin with (even when they weren't blown to pieces.)

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

one thing that bugs me about modern budget PSUs is that they tend to always come with AFPC - and that's a problem, because to make them cheap, the manufacturer typically ends up using an undersized or crap brand primary cap (or both). Not uncommon after some years for the primary cap to go bang. I'd rather deal with installing missing EMI/RFI filters and replacing output caps on an old unit like this than trying to fix the APFC section of a modern unit after it's blown up from a bad primary cap and shot some SMD parts into orbit that were almost impossible to identify to begin with (even when they weren't blown to pieces.)

sigh, thats more designed to fail catastrophically and unfixable, unrepairable modern junk there!

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Them caps go bad quite rarely no matter what crap they use (if its not both underrated on capacity and voltage). Besides you can swap those caps with some other ones removed from different equipment too (if they fit, old industrial stuff is usually large so it can acommodate large caps, unlike these PSUs).

[momaka]

HEC Orion HP585D – improved v1

And here we go: I made some basic improvements to this PSU with mostly scrapped parts I had on hand. The first item on that list, of course, was the missing EMI/RFI filter, which is no longer missing. Now this PSU has the following EMI/RFI components:
- 1x 0.33 uF X2-class cap across L-N lines (in parallel with a 470-KOhm resistor) after the main fuse
- 1x small common-mode choke (not sure what inductance, but possibly around 1 mH)
- 1x 0.47 uF X2-class cap across L-N
- 1x 5 mH common-mode choke
- 3x 2.2 nF Y2-class caps (L to GND, N to GND, and negative bus to GND.)

The 0.33 uF X2 cap came from a discarded dead PSU. The small CM choke came from another ATX PSU that originally had this soldered to the receptacle plug in such a way that I couldn’t get the PSU apart. So it had to come off, and I never put it back on, due to that PSU already having enough filtering. The 0.47 uF X2 cap came from a dead Sony PS3 PSU (Nichicon-made). And finally the 5 mH CM choke came from a mashed Samsung CRT TV PSU board (curbside find - someone busted the TV to get the copper coils out of it.) Only the Y2 caps are new parts. I grabbed these a while back for some other PSUs, though (a bag of QTY 10x for better price break.)

Up next was the 5VSB circuit. I changed the 10 uF, 50V Suscon SK critical cap for a Panasonic FC of same voltage and capacitance. That Suscon SK cap was still in spec, measuring 3.6 Ohms ESR, which is not bad for a small 5x11 mm cap. The second output cap on the 5VSB – originally a Teapo SC, 16V, 330 uF, 8x12 mm – was also replaced, as I like to have at least one quality cap on my 5VSB outputs. It was still in spec, too. I used a 6.3V, 1000 uF Chemicon KY cap in 8 mm dia. (Note: this second 5VSB cap spot has hole for both 8 mm and 10 mm diameter caps, and both will fit. So keep that in mind if recapping this PSU, as it gives you more choices.) Finally, I also changed the 5VSB minimum load resistor (R47) from 27-Ohm 2-Watt to 47-Ohm, 2-Watt. This cut down on the 5VSB idle power consumption from the wall by an entire 1 Watt (from ~4.5 Watts originally to 3.5-3.7 Watts afterwards.)

The last thing on my list was I filled the empty 8 mm cap spot on the 12V rail with a Chemicon KZE 16V, 680 uF cap. I figured this should help lower the output ripple on the 12V rail a bit and also serve as a warranty of sorts, should the 2200 uF Teapo SC decide to fail.

And that completes all the improvements/modding I did to this PSU. Ideally, I should have done a full recap on it. But I am saving my caps for other PSUs I have on my repair pile for the time being. When I order more caps eventually, I may come back to this PSU and recap it. For now, though, that is all. Here are some pictures of the work.



Oh, and for those of you who took major offense to the over-rated numbers on the label… there, I fixed that especially for you!

A black pen and leftover "sticker paper" from a shipping label is all one needs here.
No more “dual” 12V rails. Added the -5V rail, instead, as this PSU does have one. I probably made the current ratings on the 3.3V and 5V rails a bit too modest (should be able to do 20 and 30 Amps, respectively.) But what the HEC?! – Better keep them slightly under-rated instead of very over-rated, right? … and all that at 300 Watts max. Sounds fair now?

I also made a schematic of the 2-transistor 5VSB circuit, for those of you that may be interested. But I haven’t scanned it in yet, so that will be left for another post.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It's been a long time since I posted here.

Excellent work momaka!

Btw, similar to this:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11930
This has a dedicated toroid coil and a mag amp coil for 3.3V instead of linear generation.

and this:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34170

[momaka]

HEC Orion HP585D – 5VSB circuit

Finally scanned it.

In case anyone likes to see how these 5VSB circuits are designed, here is the one from the HEC Orion PSU above.

It's been a long time since I posted here.

I know!
Welcome back!! Hope to see you around more.

Btw, similar to this:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11930
This has a dedicated toroid coil and a mag amp coil for 3.3V instead of linear generation.

and this:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34170

Yup, those are quite similar indeed.

Delta DPS-1400AB (IBM part 43X3254)
...

Amazingly clean design. I like it.
And you can see they used nice and big 450V input electro caps here, because I'm guessing this is an "upper-middle" or straight "upper" class PSU.
Should last a long time, just like most industrial -grade Delta stuff.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Okay, might as well post my FSP.


Here it is, a FSP Bluestorm II 500W I got for $3. Had bulging Capxons in the secondary and 5vsb, althpugh the main cap (420uF 400V) is fine.

Replaced most caps with what I had on my hand, as well as a few caps from a dead Delta.

2007=Only a bit older than the FSP 500W PSU that I last had in a 2014 FX Vishera system. Mine was plain-looking, but was solid like the BlueStorm, even if the biggest heatsink was thinner. The original system it was for, was my Asus P5QL Pro and Pentium E2180 in 2008.

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Heh, mine's chugging along with a Core 2 Quad Q9400 on a Gigabyte EP45T-DS3R machine. Barely warm during intense use.