Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

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  • Dannyx
    CertifiedAxhole
    • Aug 2016
    • 3912
    • Romania

    #1

    Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

    Good day folks. I wasn't sure whether this goes in the audio equipment or power supply section, but I chose the latter, since it's rather irrelevant what this supply is powering, since it could be anything really. I've got an LG DVD/home theater player which was damaged by a power surge (some branches fell on some power lines and caused a spike in the area which resulted in several blown appliances, including this thing, according to the guy who brought it in).

    A quick look at the power supply and I was presented with a bulged reservoir cap, but that was pretty much it visually speaking. Measuring all critical components in the primary, revealed a shorted bridge rectifier and, curiously, just ONE shorted FET (there's two of them and the other was fine)....sounded like a very simple and actually enjoyable job to do. I replaced all faulty parts, which was all fine and dandy until I got to those FETs: they're 2SK3530 (datasheet here) and I could not find these exact ones at my local shop, so the chap there, who knows his stuff and whom I trust, gave me a pair of 2SK2645 instead (datasheet here)....sounded like a good plan...if anything, the specs of the replacement FETs looked even better than the originals, so I installed them, ran the lightbulb test which was a pass, before going for a full live test: plugged the thing straight into the mains, the blue standby light DID come on, but as soon as I tried powering it on, there was a massive flash and the obligatory bang, then I saw part of the circuit board going up in flames before the main breaker tripped...damn :|

    As I inspected the damage, I noticed the fuse didn't open as it was supposed to, hence adding to the damage and also the rectifier and one of the new FETs had shorted, again, like before, just ONE of them. What actually caught fire were two filter chokes located on the AC side...they're fried and no longer conduct now, so this PSU looks beyond repair at this point, but I must wonder why the hell this happened :| Standby was fine, but as soon as I tried powering the thing on, it went boom....WTH ? I think I may have an explanation: see the power rating of the replacement transistors is only 50w, whereas the originals could take up to 70w, so if the originals were already pushed pretty close to that 70w rating, it's no wonder the 50w ones died as soon as they were subjected to the slightest load - the PSU IS driving a power amplifier after all, so I can imagine that when those large filter caps charge up they induce an enormous spike on that primary, so if the PD figure of the transistors is lower, we get unwanted results like these....facepalm if that's the case.

    On that topic, what exactly do I need to look out for when replacing FETs with non-identical parts ? The max voltage and current ratings are no-brainers, but what about other parameters like the RDSon or the gate threshold ? Do those make so much of a difference that they can't be just a fraction different ? Please compare the two and tell me if that's indeed the reason it failed or there's some other fault I should be looking out for. Also, anything I can do about those fried coils ? How about feeding AC straight to the rectifier ?

    I shall post pictures of the board tomorrow if I find the time. Cheers and thanks for any input.
    Wattevah...
  • Toasty
    Badcaps Legend
    • Jul 2007
    • 4171

    #2
    Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

    Model number & board number?
    Looking forward to photos.
    Schematic ?

    What is correct fuse rating and what did you install?

    What do you mean by "reservoir cap"?

    Replacement FET was:
    - 200V lower in VDS (Drain-Source)
    - 3-1/4 times lower in Avalanche Energy (EAS)
    - 20W lower in PD
    - RDS On is better
    - Ton & Toff are much greater (slower response)

    IMO a poor replacement that doesn't match the original in key areas.

    Check the mains filter cap.

    T
    veritas odium parit

    Comment

    • stj
      Great Sage 齊天大聖
      • Dec 2009
      • 30997
      • Albion

      #3
      Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

      when you have a blown fet, you cant trust what drives it.

      Comment

      • Dannyx
        CertifiedAxhole
        • Aug 2016
        • 3912
        • Romania

        #4
        Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

        Model number & board number?
        Looking forward to photos.
        Schematic ?
        Yes, there are some details lacking, but I don't have the device in front of me right now so I'll only be able to report these back tomorrow.

        What is correct fuse rating and what did you install?
        You kinda got me there, must admit: original fuse is 8A, but I didn't have on readily available so I put in a 10A one ....that may explain the fire, since it didn't rupture fast enough and kept sending power to the faulty circuit, but doesn't explain the failure to begin with, because a functional PSU should work even with a shunted fuse IMO, though it's obviously a stupid and unrecommended thing to do.

        What do you mean by "reservoir cap"?
        The large electrolytic capacitor that connects immediately after the bridge rectifier on all SMPSs.

        Replacement FET was:
        - 200V lower in VDS (Drain-Source)
        - 3-1/4 times lower in Avalanche Energy (EAS)
        - 20W lower in PD
        - RDS On is better
        - Ton & Toff are much greater (slower response)
        After the incident, I took a look at the datasheets and compared the two myself for this very reason and I indeed noticed some key parameters being off more or less. The VDS is not the cause IMO (this is important, since I'm no transistor expert ), since it shouldn't go beyond say 350v, especially since there's no PFC (pictures coming, I promise). I noticed the avalanche energy being lower just now and wasn't aware of that. The PD value we've already discussed and I believe is the cause of failure. Now about RDSon and switching times: is a lower value usually desirable for these parameters (a lower resistance and quicker on-off times that is) ? Is there such a thing as TOO fast of a response time or TOO low of a resistance that may cause undesired results ?
        Wattevah...

        Comment

        • Dannyx
          CertifiedAxhole
          • Aug 2016
          • 3912
          • Romania

          #5
          Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

          Originally posted by stj
          when you have a blown fet, you cant trust what drives it.
          Correct, though the driver IC and associated components don't seem damaged and also it wouldn't have worked in standby either, or at least that's how I see it. There's no separate standby and "run" circuit: it's all handled by the same two transistors.
          Wattevah...

          Comment

          • budm
            Badcaps Legend
            • Feb 2010
            • 40746
            • USA

            #6
            Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

            "You kinda got me there, must admit: original fuse is 8A, but I didn't have on readily available so I put in a 10A one ....that may explain the fire," 8A with 230V power source for running the DVD player, sounds like some one that worked on it before you do put in the wrong fuse!
            Never stop learning
            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

            Inverter testing using old CFL:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

            TV Factory reset codes listing:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

            Comment

            • Dannyx
              CertifiedAxhole
              • Aug 2016
              • 3912
              • Romania

              #7
              Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

              Originally posted by budm
              "You kinda got me there, must admit: original fuse is 8A, but I didn't have on readily available so I put in a 10A one ....that may explain the fire," 8A with 230V power source for running the DVD player, sounds like some one that worked on it before you do put in the wrong fuse!
              No, it is the correct value, since the board itself says 8A. Ok, it's not just a DVD player (my bad on not being too specific) it's a home theater system as well, so the rather high power rating is understandable since it also has the amp in it.
              Wattevah...

              Comment

              • Toasty
                Badcaps Legend
                • Jul 2007
                • 4171

                #8
                Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                It is odd to see the input filter chokes burn like that. They are replaceable.

                The mains filter cap was likely the original failure that took out the FETs. I hope you replaced it with a correct one in capacitance, voltage, and ripple handling current. Did you place it correctly polarity-wise?

                You may have other issues that won't show up until you actually apply power to the circuit. Perhaps something shorted on the supply output?

                A bad PWM chip will cause these issues also.

                >>There's no separate standby and "run" circuit: it's all handled by the same two transistors.<<

                That seems contradictory of your statement "the blue standby light DID come on"

                Keeping the series lamp in circuit when powering up is a safer way to go. I don't know the incandescent lamp situation where you live, but adding another lamp or using one with a higher wattage may help.

                The original FETs are available from eBay.
                China, France, Italy, USA, UK.

                Get the CORRECT fuse & type to match original. Fast acting or slow blow? Ceramic or glass body?

                Since you had a known surge hit the unit, replacing the varistor(s) is recommended.

                T
                veritas odium parit

                Comment

                • Dannyx
                  CertifiedAxhole
                  • Aug 2016
                  • 3912
                  • Romania

                  #9
                  Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                  The mains filter cap was likely the original failure that took out the FETs. I hope you replaced it with a correct one in capacitance, voltage, and ripple handling current. Did you place it correctly polarity-wise?
                  Obviously yes: the cap was an exact replacement and was installed correctly, plus it would've shown up on the bulb test if it hadn't been (my mate installed one backwards once and the bulb lit bright and steady).

                  >>There's no separate standby and "run" circuit: it's all handled by the same two transistors.<<

                  That seems contradictory of your statement "the blue standby light DID come on"
                  This backs up my theory about the FETs blowing when the amplifier stage started up. True, there COULD be something wrong on the other boards too, but shorting the output of a SMPS and getting such catastrophic results seems odd to me - at most, it should shut down to protect itself. A primary damaged by a surge taking out something on the secondary also seems unusual, though not entirely impossible.

                  No time to order stuff online sadly - it's not mine and has to be fixed rather fast, though it doesn't matter if it's not possible, because the guy is going to get a damage refund by the electricity provider after he filed a complaint against them and apparently won...not my business.
                  Wattevah...

                  Comment

                  • Toasty
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 4171

                    #10
                    Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                    >>at most, it should shut down to protect itself<<

                    Unless that part of the circuit is faulty also.

                    Don't know your experience level so, sorry, I had to ask the question about the mains cap.

                    T
                    veritas odium parit

                    Comment

                    • Dannyx
                      CertifiedAxhole
                      • Aug 2016
                      • 3912
                      • Romania

                      #11
                      Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                      Originally posted by Toasty
                      Don't know your experience level so, sorry, I had to ask the question about the mains cap.
                      Definitely not an expert, but I know a thing or two about SMPSs....trying to learn even more each day
                      Wattevah...

                      Comment

                      • CapLeaker
                        Leaking Member
                        • Dec 2014
                        • 8133
                        • Canada

                        #12
                        Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                        Hard to tell without actually seeing the PSU.

                        Comment

                        • Toasty
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 4171

                          #13
                          Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                          Even the model number as I asked waaaay back there... ^ ^ ^

                          T
                          veritas odium parit

                          Comment

                          • Dannyx
                            CertifiedAxhole
                            • Aug 2016
                            • 3912
                            • Romania

                            #14
                            Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                            Ok, here's some much needed info: model plus some pictures...they're pretty sh!t now that I look at them up close, so hopefully the schematics come in handy to clear things up.

                            The model of the power supply is PSC20350 and after a lot of searching, I managed to find its schematic in the service manual for a JVC unit strangely enough, so LG weren't the only ones to use this board. Schematic is on page 40.

                            You can now see the damage I was talking about (photos are after the fire incident so the mains cap is missing): you can see part of the trace came off there and also those fried chokes I was mentioning.
                            Attached Files
                            Wattevah...

                            Comment

                            • jazzie366
                              Badcaps Veteran
                              • May 2016
                              • 304
                              • United States

                              #15
                              Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                              Originally posted by Dannyx
                              Ok, here's some much needed info: model plus some pictures...they're pretty sh!t now that I look at them up close, so hopefully the schematics come in handy to clear things up.

                              The model of the power supply is PSC20350 and after a lot of searching, I managed to find its schematic in the service manual for a JVC unit strangely enough, so LG weren't the only ones to use this board. Schematic is on page 40.

                              You can now see the damage I was talking about (photos are after the fire incident so the mains cap is missing): you can see part of the trace came off there and also those fried chokes I was mentioning.
                              What are those shit heatsinks!?!? LG, you can do better than that! I bet under full load those got pretty hot.

                              Man those pics look like that thing's been fucked pretty hard. I wonder how much amperage it drew to roast the chokes, they look good for at least 1-2A?

                              Edit: had a look at the schematic, looks to me less complicated than a goddamn apple cube. Quite a simple little thing actually.
                              Last edited by jazzie366; 09-27-2017, 10:56 AM.
                              Popcorn.

                              Comment

                              • Dannyx
                                CertifiedAxhole
                                • Aug 2016
                                • 3912
                                • Romania

                                #16
                                Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                                Originally posted by jazzie366
                                What are those shit heatsinks!?!? LG, you can do better than that! I bet under full load those got pretty hot.

                                Man those pics look like that thing's been fucked pretty hard. I wonder how much amperage it drew to roast the chokes, they look good for at least 1-2A?

                                Edit: had a look at the schematic, looks to me less complicated than a goddamn apple cube. Quite a simple little thing actually.
                                Well the PSU is not made by LG - it's made by Sanken as far as the board tells us (forgot to upload a picture of the models and stuff up close).

                                Yes, the damage is pretty significant given the chokes caught fire. I was just about ready to have another go at repairing this thing, but I believe those chokes are tough to find and possibly expensive. I'd need a new set of FETs too, this time preferably higher spec'd ones.....
                                Wattevah...

                                Comment

                                • Toasty
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Jul 2007
                                  • 4171

                                  #17
                                  Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                                  The damage there looks to be from the bridge rectifier shorting. The thermistor/inrush current limiter TH901 didn't blow, nor did the 2 - 0.15Ω source resistors which effectively present 0.075Ω.

                                  ZD903 may have shorted, which would explain why the resistors didn't fail, but it still doesn't explain why the thermistor didn't torch.

                                  The FET probably died because of the wrong values.

                                  You can bypass the chokes for testing purposes.

                                  T
                                  Last edited by Toasty; 09-27-2017, 11:25 AM.
                                  veritas odium parit

                                  Comment

                                  • Dannyx
                                    CertifiedAxhole
                                    • Aug 2016
                                    • 3912
                                    • Romania

                                    #18
                                    Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                                    Originally posted by Toasty
                                    The damage there looks to be from the bridge rectifier shorting. The thermistor/inrush current limiter TH901 didn't blow, nor did the 2 - 0.15Ω source resistors which effectively present 0.075Ω.

                                    ZD903 may have shorted, which would explain why the resistors didn't fail, but it still doesn't explain why the thermistor didn't torch.

                                    The FET probably died because of the wrong values.

                                    You can bypass the chokes for testing purposes.

                                    T
                                    The rectifier was shorted the first time as well. The flat one you see in the top-down picture is the original one, since the photos were taken while I was putting the dead parts back on so I could return it as it came (might give it one more shot nevertheless).

                                    I looked up the model on that rectifier and it's a 4a one, so I replaced it with a similar one, although with a different package (it had longer leads and had to space them out a bit using some pliers to get it to fit the holes), but that one's long gone now so it went straight in the trash....anyway, irrelevant. I must question why there's such a big "gap" between the rectifier rating 4a and the fuse rating 8a ? Probably headroom for inrush currents.
                                    Wattevah...

                                    Comment

                                    • Toasty
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Jul 2007
                                      • 4171

                                      #19
                                      Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                                      >>Probably headroom for inrush currents.<<

                                      Correct. The thermistor limits the initial surge. It is -rated- at 4A continuous.

                                      SCK-054 = 5Ω initial resistance, 4A continuous current

                                      Ex: SCK-083 = 8Ω initial resistance, 3A continuous current

                                      T
                                      veritas odium parit

                                      Comment

                                      • Dannyx
                                        CertifiedAxhole
                                        • Aug 2016
                                        • 3912
                                        • Romania

                                        #20
                                        Re: Advice on LG DVD player blown power supply

                                        Trying to find a datasheet for that SSC6700 (IC901) just to see what those pins do for the hell of it, but I've drawn a bit of a blank - obscure chinese parts as always...from what I can assume without a very vast knowledge of electronics:

                                        1-current sense ?
                                        2-VCC
                                        3- ?
                                        4-feedback
                                        5-GND
                                        6-oscilation frequency set ?
                                        7- ?
                                        8-OUT (FET drive)
                                        Wattevah...

                                        Comment

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