PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

[envoid]

This is a continuation of my thread on my two FSP PSU's.

Replaced the caps on my 700w (along with the bad IGBT) with Panny FR's on the 5v and 12v, a Nichi HM on the 3.3v, and some other FR's in the secondary circuit. Did the the same for my other 600w. Now they both act like they have bad caps still (actually, even worse than before). I looked up the FR's before buying and they (from what the Panasonic data showed) were basically FM's but most of the time with smaller cans. I needed the smaller cans as it was already cramped and the FR's looked to be just right.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'd like to at least recover one of them, if possible.

Thanks!

[Toasty]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

>>Now they both act like they have bad caps still (actually, even worse than before).<<



Please explain the symptoms.

What caps -did- you replace?

What caps did you -not- replace?

May we have some photos please?

Toast

[ratdude747]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

>>Now they both act like they have bad caps still (actually, even worse than before).<<



Please explain the symptoms.

What caps -did- you replace?

What caps did you -not- replace?

May we have some photos please?

Toast

also, what did you replace the replaced caps with?

[shovenose]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

also, what did you replace the replaced caps with?

it says in the first post:

Replaced the caps on my 700w (along with the bad IGBT) with Panny FR's on the 5v and 12v, a Nichi HM on the 3.3v, and some other FR's in the secondary circuit. Did the the same for my other 600w

[ratdude747]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

it says in the first post:

i see that

[envoid]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

The only caps I didn't replace in the 700 were two 2200uf/16v on the 12v side (they are OST RLP). All the others were replaced (1000uf/16v). There was one that was one of the 2200uf/16v on the 3.3v line that I replaced with a 2200uf/6.3v Nichi HM. The 1000uf caps were for the 5v and 12v lines (there might've been one for the 3.3v line as well, little burnt out with it being so late here).

I was messing around with it some more since posting and thought maybe a diode was screwed up as it had 273Kohm in reverse but I just ended up blowing a IGBT again (and the house breaker but for some reason never the damn fuse on this thing). I'm pretty much gutting the 600 for parts now until I fix this 700 as it has most of the same parts on the primary side. I also swapped that 2200uf/6.3v Nichi for a Panny FM. When using this crappy and simple ATX PSU tester the 3.3v and 5v LEDs flicker a good lot and the 12v dims out a bit. I'm thinking it's on the secondary side as the +5vSB seems fine.

I'll have pics for you tomorrow but there is one that doesn't show a whole lot on the thread I linked to in my initial post on this thread. :/

Thanks guys!

[Toasty]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

>>The only caps I didn't replace in the 700 were...<<

Mains cap(s) and all the little ones too?

Are you loading the supply properly? Some won't run (correctly) without a load.

Always use the series lamp circuit to test problem PSUs. Saves fuses and transistors.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...2&postcount=23

Toast

[envoid]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

Thanks for the link, Toasty. I will try building that today while getting the pictures (having to watch the son this morning).

My tester has two large ceramic resistors that produce a load but have to look again to see which lines. I am thinking these FSP supplies had a problem with it but last night on a real load (my system) it blew that IGBT in under a second (which I still need to take out).

I really appreciate the help with this!

[Toasty]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

What is the part number of the IGBT? Is it really an IGBT? Is there a pair of them?

Have you verified the bridge rectifier and the mains cap? If this IGBT is the mains switcher transistor and the mains cap is faulty, it will blow the device immediately. If there is a pair of them, and one is bad, it can also do this.

What is the model number of this supply?
Does this supply have PFC and is this part of it?

Toast

[envoid]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

I haven't rechecked them since this last time it blew but last time it was the IGBT. They are 20N60C3 IGBT's (three of them) and the diode is a BYC8-600. The power supply model is FSP FX700-GLN. The switching transistors are PFV218N50 and the rectifier bridges are GBU606. The bridges were never taken out but looked ok (no shorts or bad polarity checks). The switching transistors were not taken out either but no shorts as well. It didn't short out after I replaced the one bad IGBT but it also wouldn't supply a proper load either. It only started tripping the breaker once I put a good load on it. (I hope this all makes sense)

Below are links to images of the PSU (the imageshack thumbnails weren't working right and didn't want everyone to download the images when just viewing this thread). The underside image I labeled though you might have to see it full size to see the text (larger font but didn't want to obscure anything).

Underside:
http://img221.*************/img221/3962/10038542.jpg

I replaced the three caps under the wires (labeled CAP1-3 on the underside image).
http://img847.*************/img847/5577/1003853k.jpg

The cap in the heatshrink against the heatsink is the panny 2200uf/6.3v I somehow now was able to get in. It is CAP4 on the underside image. (this was initially an OST 2200uf/16v that I replaced with a 2200/6.3v Nichi HM)
http://img27.*************/img27/3848/1003852v.jpg

This is the secondary. Two OST RLP 2200uf/16v (marked) caps I left as I didn't see a need and didn't know of a 16v replacement that would fit. All the smaller caps I replaced with Panny FR's (1000uf/16v as they were previously labeled (Capxon KF)).
http://img141.*************/img141/217/1003851.jpg

Primary side, cap is a Capxon 470uf/400v:
http://img600.*************/img600/9118/1003850m.jpg

Top-down image:
http://img803.*************/img803/1706/1003848.jpg

Thank you soo much for the help! I am so grateful!

[envoid]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

I'm going to rephrase the summary of this thing as I'm not sure I'm answering all your questions...

I had blown caps and a blown IGBT from the caps. Replaced the caps and the IGBT and it didn't trip the breaker when mains was applied. However, it would still act like it had bad caps as it couldn't supply a load to anything. Tried a heavy load (my system) again and I think it blew a IGBT again. I haven't confirmed this yet but I'm figuring it is one of them again. And this is where it is at.

[Toasty]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

Attaching images to post. Prevents loss of information should Imageshack decide to delete them.

Use the "Advanced" button and the "Manage Attachments" section to either upload them from your computer or a URL.

IGBT is not the correct terminology. These are MOSFETs. Datasheet attached.

Replacing all 3 at the same time is the correct method. They appear to be connected in parallel and work together to provide 60A total. That is PFC. The control board is mounted vertically across from them.

If the PFC coil is shorted, that could be the source of the problem.

Check the 3 SMD resistors leading to the 20N60 drains. R14,15,18. R18 -looks- damaged, but that could be flux or camera angle. Code 100 = 10Ω - - Also check R76 and R8B.

Check transistors Q13 and Q14 for leakage.

What is the series of the Capxon Mains cap?

Toast

.

[envoid]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

Btw, these are the links for the cap datasheets in case someone wants to look over them and find something i missed.

CapXon KF:
http://www.capxongroup.com/files/2011-KF Series.pdf

OST RLP:
http://www.ost.com.tw/PDF/EC/RLP.pdf

Panasonic FR:
http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-...UFR1C102B+7+AM
or PDF (via Mouser): http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsh...ta%20Sheet.pdf

[envoid]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

That is weird... I found some datasheets for these that called them IGBT. Makes sense they blow so fast then.

Thanks for posting the images. I didn't notice that.

The mains cap is an LP.

[mockingbird]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

Try replacing the two 2200uF RLPs. Are these 10mm or 12mm? For 10mm, Panasonic makes a 16V 2200uF cap in 10mm suitable for PSUs. Series is "FK" and ESR is 0.025 IIRC. There are exactly 2 in stock at Newark.

[Toasty]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

Updated post 12. Y'all jumped in with 3 replies whilst I was editing... lol


EDIT: re: House Breaker - Is that a GFCI breaker?

[envoid]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

Thank you guys! Those OST's that are left are for the 12v line but I was thinking they were ok because with my PSU tester the 12v LED doesn't blink out as bad as the 5v or 3.3v LEDs do. But it is worth a shot. I will need to make an order anyway for the MOSfets probably though I do have two more of the same ones.

I'll check the resistors and the coil. That R18 I think is just flux. I have had to remove all three plus the diode to remove the entire heatsink so I can just replace one component and it's been done a few times now.

Regarding the breaker, it is the one in the main panel for the house. The circuit is a special 15A mains line for my computer stuff. Though it might be a good idea to swap out the normal outlets for them.\

Almost forgot, this is the tester I have.

[Toasty]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

hmmm.... Not the answer I was looking for regarding the breaker. A GFCI breaker is typically used for kitchen, bath, laundry, and pool areas. Anywhere you may come in contact with water and a live electrical source. They have a push-button on them for testing.

The reason I asked is I'm thinking you're not using an isolation transformer, correct?

If you have a GFCI and are working on this PSU in the circuit and somehow are getting yourself across the ground circuit to hot, you're tripping the breaker. They react on the slightest of milliamps detected, below what would cause a shock. e.g., - Moisture in an appliance can cause them to trip.

Now, if you're "dumping" the main breaker for the whole house, that's a cause for concern.

Also, I am concerned as to why a 15A circuit breaker would trip and not take out the device fuse. It does happen, and is really a function of timing. I'll not go into those details now.

The link for the tester would indicate you are in Australia, yes? 220v mains?

I think the GFCI is called an RPD or something like that in Europe.

If you can verify that the 20N60 blew again, I would be very suspicious of the mains cap or the coil. If the -same- one blew, then there must be a reason.

There is a way to bypass the PFC and was covered in another thread recently.

Toast

[envoid]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

I tested the five resistors, all are 10ohm. I also pulled off the MOSfets and the middle one is blown again. That is the one linked closest to the coil (you are talking about the coil closest to the mains cap, right?).

Ah, that GFCI. Yeah, don't have them on this circuit. Though it probably would be a good idea. This circuit has its own breaker in the panel. It is only that one tripping, so thankfully the electrician did it right.

And yeah, no isolation transformer. And I need to make that "light" still.

[Toasty]

Re: PSU acting like bad caps after replacing

The other 2 MOSFETs could be weak/leaky and the middle one is carrying all the load. Could be why it's tanking.