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    Building your own power supply: An actual example

    We all know that the best way to start learning electronics is to whip out the soldering iron and build something, so that's exactly what i'll be doing right now, and everyone is invited to do the same.

    My little class D amplifier i built a while back has gotten a bit more serious, and i have decided to build a stereo version capable of 350 watts per channel at 4 ohms. One channel is for my subwoofer (my sub is 8 ohms tho so i'm looking at 200-some watts), the other channel... well, you never know when those extra watts will come in handy.

    Only problem is, i don't have anything to feed it! So i have to build a power supply to suit. The amp will need about +/-70v to achieve its goal, but i have decided to make the voltage rails +/-88v at idle. First, self-oscillating class D needs quite a bit more voltage headroom than other types of amps. Second, the power devices are 200v so why not get the most out of them. Third, higher voltage rails give more power at high impedance loads. Since my subwoofer is 8 ohm 250W, higher voltage rails are a good idea. Taking into account 87% efficiency of the amplifier, the power supply will need about 800W to feed two 350W modules at full output.

    If you have downloaded the latest version of my SMPS helper spreadsheet here, you would have noticed that i changed a few things.

    I set the input voltage to 310 volts ie what it should be at nominal line voltage. The reason for this is that for simplicity's sake i will be building an unregulated SMPS (hence the high voltage headroom), and the transformer must be able to handle the maximum duty cycle at nominal line voltage without saturating. Sure, that means no protection is given against line transients, but throw a PFC stage before it and hey presto! But more on that later.

    An unregulated SMPS greatly simplifies the design task, and is a good first venture in this area of electronics. So let's start with one of the most important components:

    The transformer. For this power level, i will be using two transformers made on the very common EI-33 core. Reason being i have lots of them. The primaries are going to be in parallel, and each transformer is going to have one 88v rail tapped at 18v. The 18v rails are for feeding some 12v linear regulators for the driver supply - again, this is an unregulated supply so some headroom is advisable.

    My spreadsheet worked out that i will need 62 turns on the primary and 37 turns on the secondary, with a tap at the 29th turn for the 18v output. I chose to use 8x 0.2mm (32AWG) twisted together wire for the primary. Homemade litz wire. The reason for using multiple strands of thin wire instead of a single thick one is that the skin effect comes into play at high frequencies, read more here. My supply will be working at 100kHz so i could get away with wire as thick as 0.4mm (26AWG), in fact, this is exactly why i will be using 4x 0.35mm wire for the secondary. 0.2mm wire tends to get real messy real quick, and it doesn't help when you're trying to twist together a few meters of it.

    For good coupling between primary and secondary i will wind half the primary, wind the secondary, then wind the other half primary on top. If you ever took apart an ATX PSU transformer you have surely noticed the same method. The best coupling is achieved by bifilar winding (twisting primary and secondary together and winding as one), but this is a big no-no when mains voltage is involved. I will be using one layer of tape between each layer of windings, and three layers between the primary and secondary. Here's how the transformer looks after winding the first half primary. More progress, tomorrow.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 03-21-2011, 06:28 PM.
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
    A working TV? How boring!

    #2
    Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

    I'd go with regulated version.

    You otherwise need about 1kW to drive both amps if they are in phase, or about 800 if they are shifted 180°

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

      Too late to change plans. Already finished the first transformer, and you said 800 if they're shifted 180°. Which is exactly what i'm going to do - invert one channel at the input and connect the speaker wires the other way round. This trick is also used on some commercial models, first one that pops into my mind is the Peavey IPR 1600.

      Unfortunately no pics for today - the batteries ran out on the camera. I did take a pic of the halfway completed transformer but i also want to show the 100% done version. In the end it fit... just barely.
      Originally posted by PeteS in CA
      Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
      A working TV? How boring!

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

        So.

        You will be having push-pull unregulated SMPS running at 800W?

        Why not add tl494 ? It is pie-simple and you'll get rid of all the problems of SMPS not starting, blowing mosfets etc...

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

          2 transistor forward not push-pull. I will use TL494 but without feedback. Well, the feedback pin will be used... for current limiting. Heck, i had a 300W supply running from a 555 timer. If i didn't blow anything on that, i can hardly see how i'm going to blow anything on this one.
          Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 03-22-2011, 01:36 PM.
          Originally posted by PeteS in CA
          Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
          A working TV? How boring!

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

            Why not go that last step and add feedback ?

            You use one op amp for positive rail and another for negative one.

            Also add soft start and that is pretty much it.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

              Because i have already built a transformer for an unregulated supply, and because with a regulated supply i'd also have to worry about the filter inductor current which shouldn't go discontinuous to keep the feedback loop stable. At this level that would impose a fairly hefty minimum load. And soft start can easily be implemented around the TL494, this has nothing to do with whether the supply is regulated or not.
              Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 03-22-2011, 01:51 PM.
              Originally posted by PeteS in CA
              Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
              A working TV? How boring!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                Why would transformer for unregulated PSU be any different than one for regulated one?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                  A transformer for a regulated PSU is designed to give full output at minimum expected line voltage. Under nominal line the feedback loop reduces the duty cycle.

                  My transformer is designed to provide the desired output voltage (with some headroom) at nominal line and 47% (maximum) duty cycle. In this case, line drops, output drops. Feedback would merely limit the maximum voltage under idle conditions or low loads which i had already stated is detrimental to this application.
                  Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                  Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                  A working TV? How boring!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                    I expected something like 90 volts no load. I got 160! Double checked and there are no errors in the math nor the build. The voltage drops under load but it's still over 100 at 50 watts.

                    Looks like this will be a regulated supply after all... Well, semi-regulated. I only intend to limit the maximum idle voltage to +/-90v nothing more.
                    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                    A working TV? How boring!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                      Did you calculate for 230VAC or for 320VDC ?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                        I calculated for 310VDC which is precisely what i am getting at the primary caps. Voltage does go down as expected with high load but the variation is too much.

                        I had to tackle another problem - the transformer was saturating. Fortunately our good old friend the air gap saved the day. Does it do 400W now? Just barely, but at least it doesn't blow up. The core gets hot but the MOSFETs are just warm now (i blew up two pairs before), sign that i am now far from saturation. Since it's for an audio amp... it'll do. You know all cheap PSUs that use the EI33 core blow up at 250W. I have 400W. I think that's enough of an achievement.

                        Pics tomorrow. I'll be starting work on the second transformer and on the TL494 and protection circuitry.
                        Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                        Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                        A working TV? How boring!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                          Ghetto PSU Company Inc here. The previous EI33 still blew my MOSFETs up, so i gave it one more shot. Third time lucky they say.

                          I used a 100mT flux density and ended up with the following configuration. 100 turns primary, 68 turns secondary. Wound as follows: 50 turns primary with 2x 0.35mm wire, 13 turns secondary with 3x 0.35mm wire (for the tap for feeding the 12v linear regs), the remaining 55 turns secondary with 2x 0.35mm wire, and finally the last 50 turns primary with 2x 0.35mm wire.

                          I knew the copper loss was going to kill me on this one. But a hot transformer is still better than blown MOSFETs. And... results? See for yourself.

                          And yes, talk about a messy floor. At the moment the whole thing is being driven from an adjustable generator using a 555, a couple trimpots and a MOSFET for driving the GDT, no TL494, no feedback, no nothing, all is controlled by hand. The fan is a 24v 92mm fan being run at 12v so it doesn't move as much air as you could imagine. The heatsink holding the MOSFETs stays cool, the transformer is at about 50C estimated, i'll probe it with the thermocouple later.

                          You can see the primary caps at the bottom (two 680uF 200v caps in series), the tiny GDT, the crap diodes which i took from the worst of ATX supplies (200v 3A, and actually they're quite well suited for this job), output coil (which btw is taken straight from an ATX supply, i'm using the 5v windings in series, and it runs extremely hot, actually the reason it's sitting on another coil is because it got so hot that it started to leave hot glue on my floor! ). The tin which didn't make it in the pic in whole, is filled with water and is holding some of the (undersized) load resistors to keep them from burning up. Romanian load testing at its finest. The secondary caps are currently 2x 330uF Viva... anyone remember them?

                          And yet, with all of this, i'm getting 350 watts. I expect at least 20W more from a proper output coil, some 5W from better rectifiers, again a few more watts from beefier caps... and looky, there's my 400W. And all ATX PSUs which use this core blow up at 250W. Romania 1, China 0. And btw, the switching devices are a pair of those - based on their voltage rating (220v mains here), they should have blown in the second the supply was plugged in - but apparently nobody told them. The primary diodes are some 5A ultrafasts from Central, don't remember their exact model.

                          I'll be dealing with the output coil now, then winding the second transformer, then i'll get to designing a proper control circuit. AND YES it is gonna be regulated.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 03-27-2011, 03:41 PM.
                          Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                          Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                          A working TV? How boring!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                            You'll *love* this: http://schmidt-walter.eit.h-da.de/smps_e/smps_e.html

                            I wound a new transformer for what was a Hipro 200W AT PS. Turned it into a 45A 13.8 -14.2V supply. New/bigger caps, two SBL3045CT LV rectifiers, MJE13009s instead of 2SC4242s, bigger line rectifier, line wires, heavied up/paralleled traces.

                            And the most important part- completely changed the feedback paths. Many times, you'll see 'conversions' that consist merely of a big load on 5 to keep things happy. That doesn't do anything about the outputs being dependant upon each other, the too-small 12v rectifiers or the smaller 12v winding in the transformer.

                            I'll start another thread for that, don't want to hijack.

                            How do you like that Uni-T UT60E, Unique? I've got the next lower model, without RS-232 nor TRMS, labeled as MCM Electronics' Tenma 72-7740. It has a yellow grip instead of orange. Does yours have a 4000 or 6000 count display?

                            You might try taking two of those yellow/white ferrites (type 26), stacking them and winding your output inductor through both cores at the same time. If too little inductance or they saturate (softly- 26 is iron powder), you'll get high dI/dT charging the output caps, as you know. Reflected into the primary, your switches will 'splode. Don't worry about the mess- it needs _more_ wires.

                            Another link: http://www.bcae1.com/trnsfrmr.htm

                            Stacked toroid example is shown in the antenna tuner.

                            -Paul
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by kaboom; 03-27-2011, 07:26 PM.
                            "pokemon go... to hell!"

                            EOL it...
                            Originally posted by shango066
                            All style and no substance.
                            Originally posted by smashstuff30
                            guilty,guilty,guilty,guilty!
                            guilty of being cheap-made!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                              Originally posted by kaboom View Post
                              That calculator has been proved to be too conservative by several people. I have my own spreadsheet which i use to calculate things, i believe i linked to it in here as well.

                              Originally posted by kaboom View Post
                              How do you like that Uni-T UT60E, Unique?
                              It's good. There are three things i don't like about it however:

                              1. Slow autorange.
                              2. The frequency meter sometimes gets fooled by switching waveforms (it displays double the actual frequency, however, it does get the duty cycle right all the time).
                              3. The backlight doesn't use a regulator so it only works when the battery is brand new.

                              It is 4000 count. Btw, the frequency meter is spec'd for 10MHz but it works up to 50 within the same 0.1% tolerance.

                              Originally posted by kaboom View Post
                              You might try taking two of those yellow/white ferrites (type 26), stacking them and winding your output inductor through both cores at the same time.
                              http://micrometals.com/software.html I've done my math already. And no matter what i do to them T106-26, even stacked, run either too hot or need too much wire. I have a larger toroid (i think it's a T130) made with -52 material from an Antec Truepower, i'll be using that, and winding both + and - rail on it so that the DC bias basically cancels itself out. Should drastically reduce core loss.

                              Originally posted by kaboom View Post
                              Don't worry about the mess- it needs _more_ wires.
                              That's what i've been thinking too...
                              - Andrew
                              Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                              Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                              A working TV? How boring!

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                                Ok, i think i've proven my point. Here's what my latest transformer does. 85 turns primary, 59 turns secondary, all with 3x 0.35mm wire. I dare anyone to try and shove more wire in that EI33. The DT838 on the left is measuring winding temperature btw. Do the math on the second picture.

                                This one doesn't get hot to the point you can cook eggs on it, but still enough for the tape to start melting, so i stopped after a few minutes. If i had proper high temp insulation tape it would probably be able to run continuously at this level, but again, it's meant for an audio amp so it'll do okay.
                                Attached Files
                                Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                                Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                                A working TV? How boring!

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                                  What a nice mess you have there !

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                                    Thanks. Now the mess has been moved onto the bench and has become a little, um, less messy. I don't step on random parts on the floor anymore.

                                    I now have a good idea of the overall design of the power supply. The whole thing must fit on a 100x150mm board. To save space and simplify PCB design, the controller and protection circuits will be mounted on their own daughterboards.

                                    The GDT driving circuitry must use split supplies for best efficiency. Since i already have provisions for +/-16v rails in the transformers (which will be regulated by LM317/337 to whatever value i find optimal for the driver circuitry of the amplifier), i figured it'd be a good idea to drive the GDT from there. So i don't need a standby supply - but then how would i start the 494?

                                    I thought about it a little then i figured out something that should work - a low current non-isolated power supply (derived from a small capacitor in series with AC line) will start up the 494, then once the main supplies are up a relay will break this connection, making the supply fully isolated. I'm making a protoboard with a 494 atm.
                                    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                                    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                                    A working TV? How boring!

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                                      I'm going to use single ended drive for the GDT like i did till now (one n-channel mosfet and a 100 ohm 3w resistor across the GDT), so i won't need +/- driver supplies anymore, and may go for a standby supply to avoid any safety risk.

                                      I'm proud to announce i have a TL494 successfully implemented on my protoboard. Now the fun part - stabilizing the loop.
                                      Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                                      Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                                      A working TV? How boring!

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Building your own power supply: An actual example

                                        Running stable from maximum output down to nothing connected. At the moment i'm testing an EI33 core for the output inductor too, i'm so lazy i'm just using the primary that was already on it (40 turns). It works great.

                                        At high loads the output inductor started to buzz. I thought the regulation loop was oscillating but hooking up the scope revealed what was really going on - 2.1vpp of 50Hz ripple! My caps are too small, both primary and secondary. I knew i wasn't gonna get away with just 2x 330uF secondary caps, but the 2x 680uF primaries i thought will be enough. Even at a moderate load there's like 400mvpp. Though it's not a big deal for a 80 volt supply, this is going to power an audio amplifier after all so i'd like to keep it quiet.

                                        I'm gonna have to parallel some more caps, let's see what i can do while keeping the same board size. Current schematic is attached. Pin 16 is of course also hooked to ground atm, but it'll do the current limiting so that's why i left it free in the schem.
                                        Attached Files
                                        Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                                        Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                                        A working TV? How boring!

                                        Comment

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