How to find SOC compatibility

[mcplslg123]

Friends, How we can be sure about the soc compatibity on a particular mb as there are so many different SOC's and its impossible to find the exact model of soc at hand. Say for example a mobo has SR170(i5) onboard and i've SR16Z(i7) at hand. CPU-World always dont help to arrive at conclusion.How to be sure they are compatible? One way is microcode in bios but having difficulty in using Mc Extractor.

Can anyone guide me in using mc extractor or any similar utilty. Any other ideas to clear confusion is welcome.

PS: I beleive many members here must be facing this issue as SOC failure rate is very high compared to older PCH days.

[mcplslg123]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

No response from anyone or i've raised a wierd question??

[KvnTM]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

I believe(!) that the pinouts are the same (on same generation of course) since the manufacturer doesn't want to bother with different layouts when shipping with different cpus.

I could be completely wrong but that's my theory.

[SMDFlea]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

Both the SR170 and SR16Z CPU`s are listed as having HD4400 (GT2) graphics on the intel spec pages,but there are some subtle differences between them.
The SR170 GPU is clocked at 1.0 GHz MAX and slightly different MAX hdmi resolution.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-2-60-ghz.html
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-3-00-ghz.html

[KvnTM]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

I think those subtle differences wouldnt make a huge problem if the pinout is the same.
Patching microcodes isn't hard and can be done with software from the bios manufacturer.
I've done it before on really old lga775 mainboards that were restricted to core 2 duo by the manufacturer to avoid people upgrading the machine to core 2 quad. Worked flawless and the machine works to this day.

[mcplslg123]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

I'm not asking about SR170 and SR16Z compatibility-it was just a hypothetical example. The broad question is how to understand if the onboard cpu can be substituted with another sku. I've checked specs on intel website/cpu world website and changed a onboard cpu (with different sku but more or less same specs) on acer mobo and it didnt worked. I think perhaps microcode of replaced cpu was not in bios and that's the reason for non-compatibility as it it turned on with consumption of only 90ma on dc supply(Earlier cpu was shorted and PIn8 of bios was grounded). I'm not very conversant with changing microcode in bios. Will try to learn but if anyone here can give some tips.

PS: Dont remember the acer model number or the cpu's i exchanged as it was almost 6 months back.

[SMDFlea]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

I'm not asking about SR170 and SR16Z compatibility-it was just a hypothetical example. The broad question is how to understand if the onboard cpu can be substituted with another sku. I've checked specs on intel website/cpu world website and changed a onboard cpu (with different sku but more or less same specs) on acer mobo and it didnt worked. I think perhaps microcode of replaced cpu was not in bios and that's the reason for non-compatibility as it it turned on with consumption of only 90ma on dc supply(Earlier cpu was shorted and PIn8 of bios was grounded). I'm not very conversant with changing microcode in bios. Will try to learn but if anyone here can give some tips.

PS: Dont remember the acer model number or the cpu's i exchanged as it was almost 6 months back.

"PS: Dont remember the acer model number or the cpu's i exchanged as it was almost 6 months back"

Without knowing which cpu`s you exchanged how can we check if there were
any incompatibilities between the "more or less same specs". The hypothetical SR170 and SR16Z shouldn`t have any problems exchanging,maybe apart from microcode changes to bios as KvnTM pointed out. The SR170 and SR16Z have the same ME firmware,pinout,ID,graphics (GT2).
Changing the microcode can also be done with UEFITool, phoenixtool and hex editor with some bios

EDIT: i don`t do reballing myself but i`ve seen some on some russian repair forums they`re using an aluminium frame to kep the SOC straight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oRGjtS6qUw

[piernov]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

90mA usually means CPU VCore is not even coming up. Replacement CPU was bad or improperly soldered, or there was another motherboard issue. BIOS was not even running so it cannot be microcode issue.
Usually, one microcode applies to a series of CPU on the same package and from same generation.

[anshad]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

90mA usually means CPU VCore is not even coming up. Replacement CPU was bad or improperly soldered, or there was another motherboard issue. BIOS was not even running so it cannot be microcode issue.
Usually, one microcode applies to a series of CPU on the same package and from same generation.

I agree to that. Besides there is another obstacle in changing SOC. Some platforms have BIOS guard feature in which the CPU/SOC is fused with a private key or something and it has to match with the public key in BIOS. In such cases, that CPU may refuse to work on another vendors board.

I don't do BGA work but its told to me by someone who has expertise.

[khaahk]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

Yes - the replacement cpu has to be with clean boot guard or come from the same type of mainboard.

I agree to that. Besides there is another obstacle in changing SOC. Some platforms have BIOS guard feature in which the CPU/SOC is fused with a private key or something and it has to match with the public key in BIOS. In such cases, that CPU may refuse to work on another vendors board.

I don't do BGA work but its told to me by someone who has expertise.

[mcplslg123]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

@khaahk,anshad-Thanks a lot friends for your repponses. How to ensure clean boot guard on the target soc to be installed??
@piernov - The soc i replaced on the acer mb was working and pulled from a working motherboard and it was perfectly soldered. I desoldered it back, reballed and installed on the original mb and it worked without any issues. So that consumption of 90mA still baffles me. Anyway, can anyone here tell me how to change microcode in bios?? I need to learn this. I've searched a lot on google but still a bit confused. So any tips/guidance will be very helpful.

PS: I ultimately ordered a new cpu of same sku and installed on the acer mb and it worked which clearly tells us that the acer mb didnt had any other issues. So it has to soc incompatibity.

[anshad]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

@khaahk,anshad-Thanks a lot friends for your repponses. How to ensure clean boot guard on the target soc to be installed??
@piernov - The soc i replaced on the acer mb was working and pulled from a working motherboard and it was perfectly soldered. I desoldered it back, reballed and installed on the original mb and it worked without any issues. So that consumption of 90mA still baffles me. Anyway, can anyone here tell me how to change microcode in bios?? I need to learn this. I've searched a lot on google but still a bit confused. So any tips/guidance will be very helpful.

PS: I ultimately ordered a new cpu of same sku and installed on the acer mb and it worked which clearly tells us that the acer mb didnt had any other issues. So it has to soc incompatibity.

I also don't know how to identify a SOC has boot guard fused in or not but i think inspecting the BIOS with FITC tool may help in such cases. Load the BIOS dump in FITC tool and Go to "Platform Protection" and check if "Platform Integrity" section is present. If "Platform Integrity" section is present, check whether "OEM Public Key Hash" is non zero (populated). If non zero, then the firmware is signed by the OEM and their OEM Public Key Hash is stored permanently in the Chipset hardware. In such cases, SOC must be replaced from same donor board. Also the BIOS guard with signed OEM key prevents the BIOS from tampering. That is you can't hex edit the BIOS, update or replace modules etc. Doing so will invalidate the hash and the system may refuse to work.

Since new chip worked in your case, that Acer board probably won't have signed BIOS guard. I think this feature is not used in most of the low cost consumer grade devices. We may probably find this on business class models. Anyway since you do BGA work, may find this info useful someday.

[mcplslg123]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

Thanks@anshad. I'll look for more info on russian forums and will update if i get anything more useful about this topic. Its practically almost impossible to get a donor board of same model in most of the cases. These soc's are making our life miserable.

[Vusal]

Re: How to find SOC compatibility

Thanks@anshad. I'll look for more info on russian forums and will update if i get anything more useful about this topic. Its practically almost impossible to get a donor board of same model in most of the cases. These soc's are making our life miserable.

I'm doing research on this. Did you find a result? As you said, it makes more sense to buy a second-hand laptop than to find the same donor.

[mcplslg123]

Yes.I already made a guide on how to replace SOC with microcode guidance. The thread is listed in sticky.

[Vusal]

Yes.I already made a guide on how to replace SOC with microcode guidance. The thread is listed in sticky.

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...ash-key-poblem
Where is your document? I couldn't see it. And by the way, does it have anything to do with the topic I opened?

[SMDFlea]

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...ash-key-poblem
Where is your document? I couldn't see it. And by the way, does it have anything to do with the topic I opened?

Some sticky threads were moved to a seperate thread,and for some reason that one was left out.Anyway,its been added again -> https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...vidia-bumpgate

[Vusal]

Thanks

[mcplslg123]

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...ash-key-poblem
Where is your document? I couldn't see it. And by the way, does it have anything to do with the topic I opened?

No,your problem is different and relates to bootguard/hash key.