How to properly shim a GPU

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Th3_uN1Qu3
    Believe in
    • Jul 2010
    • 6031
    • Romania

    #1

    How to properly shim a GPU

    There are a lot of opinions regarding shimming of laptop GPUs after reflowing or reballing. I'm for it, but i've seen plenty done wrong:
    • Really thin, small shim (sub-0.5mm), placed over the stock thermal rubber - nearly useless. Same as stock thermal rubber.
    • Same sub-0.5mm shim, with paste on both sides - even worse than the stock rubber. Distance from chip to heatsink is larger than that, and paste is a very poor heat conductor when the surfaces are not very close together.
    • 1mm to 1.5mm shim the size of the die, with paste: Good. But it can get a bit better.


    Here's a Dell Vostro 1510 i picked some time ago for cheap, had never been worked on and it's in pretty good nick. Since i was out of new chips, i pulled the existing GPU, reflowed the die only at 260C, then reballed it and soldered it back to the board. It works, but i would like to keep it working for as long as possible without requiring another intervention as the board quality is crap, and i had to be very careful not to break traces or lift pads while reworking. I am going to get a new GPU ordered but i'd rather just keep it around if need be. So i needed something proper to replace the stock rubber.

    There is one important thing you have to know about the defective nVidia chips, besides that it's a bad idea to have them get any close to 80 degrees C due to the wrong underfill choice. This is only part of the problem. What i believe is that to save on die area, nVidia ran more current thru the bumps than they should have, and the damage occurs due to internal heating caused by the amount of current flowing thru (some of the) bumps, rather than just absolute temperature. Of course, it gets worse as absolute temperature increases, too, due to the increase in resistance. This goes on until part of the chip goes into thermal runaway and the bumps crack and separate the die from the substrate.

    But still, they are not so much damaged by absolute maximum temperatures rather than fast hot/cold thermal cycling, which is why the desktop parts had a much lower failure rate and longer lifespan than the mobile ones, albeit having the same manufacturing defect and being very similar parts (and in some cases, exactly the same).

    So, to keep these chips alive, one must ensure that they heat up slow and also cool down slow. The reason very few CPUs die compared to GPUs is exactly this - the part of the heatsink that covers the CPU is always engineered to fit exactly on top of the die and always uses paste for heat transfer instead of rubber or foam. Also, the transfer surface between the CPU die and the heatpipe is always a copper plate, with significant surface area and thickness, compared to the size of the CPU die and the size of the heatpipe. This creates thermal mass, it can uniformly store a larger amount of heat, and transfer it more efficiently to the heatpipe, than if the heatpipe was placed directly on top of the die. Note that the heatpipe is always at most the size of the die(s), and usually smaller.

    By contrast, GPU cooling solutions usually use a little heatpipe (or the same heatpipe as the CPU), placed on top of a little piece of aluminum (copper, only if you're lucky), then soldered to the copper heatpipe and at a significant distance from the GPU die. Thermal transfer is done thru foam or rubber. As you can see, there are a couple thermal resistances involved here:
    • Resistance of the thermal foam or rubber used (all thermal pads are not born alike);
    • Resistance of the aluminum to copper connection.

    Also, the foam type pads tend to wear out, crack and crumble over time.

    And finally, a smaller thermal mass means localized heating will occur in the GPU area instead of the heat being distributed evenly across the heatpipe and making its way to the exhaust of the fan. Although most mobile GPUs have significantly lower power consumption than CPUs, they almost universally run hotter because of this construction.

    So, to keep the GPU happier and out of trouble, we should treat it like a CPU. More thermal mass, less thermal resistance. Here's my take on it:

    The "shim" in this case is a copper plate which used to be the transfer area from CPU to heatpipe in another laptop. Unsoldered it from the heatpipe and its supports, then sanded down nicely until reasonably flat. You can still see a thin layer of solder on the top side, where the heatpipe used to go.

    IMHO, heatsinking should be done in a way that allows the use of cheap white goop for thermal paste. And the way i did it allows exactly this. Not that i wouldn't recommend the use of high quality paste. But besides being a cheapskate, i also believe that if the 2-3 deg C improvement brought by better thermal paste is what keeps a laptop alive, it means the cooling system has serious issues.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 05-30-2014, 03:48 PM.
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
    A working TV? How boring!
  • dj_ricoh
    Badcaps Legend
    • Jan 2013
    • 2073
    • uk

    #2
    Re: How to properly shim a GPU

    uN1Qu3!
    shim only ... only IF IT DOES NOT COVER MEMORY WITH THERMAL PADS.
    been there done that and saw many died because of 0.2mm missing and i did not knew.

    I had a dv9000 and try to compensate for the gap with shim on the memory and it work 2 weeks PERFECT then that KU..A died.
    i don`t even wanna know whats wrong cuz i know
    Just cook it! It's already broken.

    Comment

    • Th3_uN1Qu3
      Believe in
      • Jul 2010
      • 6031
      • Romania

      #3
      Re: How to properly shim a GPU

      Memory does not need thermal pads. In all laptops i've seen so far, some memory is covered by pads while some isn't.

      Your DV9000 died because either the GPU or the chipset is shot. It had nothing to do with thermal pads on the VRAM. If it's the intel model, then only the GPU is the problem. If it's the AMD one, both GPU and NB have issues.
      Originally posted by PeteS in CA
      Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
      A working TV? How boring!

      Comment

      • underbird
        New Member
        • Oct 2013
        • 5
        • romania

        #4
        Re: How to properly shim a GPU

        Beter solution its to change your graphic chips..its older revizion 2007 2008 2009 all are bad fabrication .....
        change with rev 2011 2012 2013 2014 and no more problem

        Comment

        • Th3_uN1Qu3
          Believe in
          • Jul 2010
          • 6031
          • Romania

          #5
          Re: How to properly shim a GPU

          I know. My point is, this is a laptop i will be keeping, and the board quality is not so good. There is a high risk of damaging pads, so i would prolong the life of this GPU as much as possible, rather than have to lift it and clean the board again and potentially ruin it.

          Also, note that the G84 and G86 chips have not been made since 2010 - all the ones with later date are fake/remarked from 07/08 bad lots. 2009 and 2010 datecode are good chips. Do you really think nVidia would still be making G84 and G86 chips when there have been no new products using them since 2009?
          Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 05-31-2014, 06:58 AM.
          Originally posted by PeteS in CA
          Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
          A working TV? How boring!

          Comment

          Related Topics

          Collapse

          • Veyron7887
            Laptop overheating after replacement thermal paste
            by Veyron7887
            Hi. I have Asus X55C laptop from year 2013. It has i3-2328M CPU. I replaced stock thermal paste with high quality thermal paste. Before thermal paste replacement, I measured CPU temperature Around 65-70 degrees Celcius with stock thermal paste. If after the replace thermal paste, I measured CPU temperature around 80-84 degrees Celcius and fan don't stop when system is idle. I replaced the thermal paste several times but still did not change. Where is the problem?
            ​​
            11-24-2024, 05:08 AM
          • caspian
            Can thermal paste cause corrosion?
            by caspian
            Dear members,

            I have got an ordinary gray thermal paste that has no name/model on the box.
            I put some of this thermal paste on a 128-pin QFP IC. A bit of this thermal paste was put on pins of the IC.
            I tried to clean the pins by thinner but the thermal paste cannot be cleaned from the pins properly. because the pins are tiny and the thermal paste is stuck between them.
            Is it possible that the thermal paste damages pins of the IC in long term by creating corrosion or something?
            Is it safe to leave the thermal paste on the pins?
            I guess the thermal paste...
            06-19-2020, 10:47 AM
          • Fobo
            What kind of Thermal Paste is this?
            by Fobo
            I bought a laptop in parts and was going to assemble it and looked on youtube and saw that it was some type of Thermal Paste on the vrams



            What kind of Thermal Paste is this on the vrams insted of thermal pads?



            the picture is taken from youtube movie
            ...
            11-22-2023, 06:20 PM
          • dicky96
            Best solvent for removing thermal paste from LGA sockets?
            by dicky96
            So I have TUF Z390 mobo with a bit of the grey thermal paste in the LGA 1151 socket right near one edge. probably from when the clamp was fastened down without a CPU fitted, and there was a bit of paste on the clamp.

            The motherboard actually works fine (you can see there is no thermal paste on the ends of the pins themselves), but it would be nice to clean it out.

            I've done a bit of googling and found suggestions from using this stuff....
            https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arctic-Si...er/27411405412...
            02-09-2021, 11:46 AM
          • magneh
            Liquid Metal Thermal Paste + Alienware = KO
            by magneh
            Hey guys !

            Funny one to share.
            What would be an IC replacement due to conductive thermal paste, revealed to be something more...
            Long story short, owner contacted for burned IC due to thermal paste accident, and when I put my eyes on it ... sweet god!
            Theres this liquid thermal paste everywhere under the chips... GPU, ram ic's...
            So sad...

            Someone had some kind of similar case?
            Can this be blown off with compressed air or something? or only way is lifting the BGA's?
            I can lift the ram chips and reball, but I dont have BGA...
            04-29-2020, 01:51 PM
          • Loading...
          • No more items.
          Working...