dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not removed

[WhatsTheDellio]

thanks in advance for any help you can give.

i have a vegus/turis skl/kbl
15341-1
91N85

this came to me with broken hinges so I lovingly acquired the parts I needed and reassembled it all to find everything working except for the battery. It was @ 30% and drained to zero while installing the OS. When plugged in the laptop works. CPU at 100% when no battery installed and only 0.4ghz if battery and AC are both plugged in.

i tried 3 different batteries and 2 different chargers so it's down to motherboard.

IR camera doesn't show any obvious over heated components. I thought I saw damage to the ncp81208 but new one looks the same so maybe not.

Now I'd like to understand the circuits and repair. Would someone be willing to walk me through it? I gather the mosfet may need replacing from the sticky but not sure how to find it.

[mcplslg123]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Does it shows the correct wattage of adapter in bios setup screen?? If no,then your problem is PS_ID circuit.

Next measure voltage on PU4301/PQ4410 for Pin 1/4/8.

All the measurements should be without battery,only adapter connected.

Voltage on PL4401 also.

Report back and then we decide and may opt for resistance check and some voltage measurements on charging ic PU4401.

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Bios shows the correct wattage.

Bios also reports status of battery as charging, but reports current as 0 mA. (the battery said charging before, I think it shows idle in the screenshot below because it was nearly full and wasn't calling for a charge)

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Image from bios

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Next measure voltage on PU4301

PIN1 = 42.1v
PIN4 = 6.1v
PIN8 = 42.1V (PINS 7&8 are joint in same solder, as is 5&6)

PQ4410 for Pin 1/4/8.

PIN1=42.1V
PIN4=3.2V
PIN8=42.1V (PINS 7&8 are joint in same solder, as is 5&6)

Voltage on PL4401 also.

PL4401 I'm not sure how to test... looking that up now. It is labelled 4R7 734 VCM and seems to have only 2 pins?

[mon2]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

PIN1 = 42.1v

Say what ????

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Say what ????

hmmm.... I should have measured in DC, not AC, right?




Next measure voltage on PU4301
PIN1 = 19.4v
PIN4 = 3.13v
PIN8 = 19.44V (PINS 7&8 are joint in same solder, as is 5&6)

PQ4410 for Pin 1/4/8.
PIN1=19.4V
PIN4=1.77V
PIN8=19.44V (PINS 7&8 are joint in same solder, as is 5&6)

[mon2]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Yes

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Yes

I'm fully capable of doing this, just not on the first try... or the second... I tried like 5 different tools to view the .CAD file in the schematics thread for this board but it wouldn't load any of them... While you're here, can you throw me a bone and tell me which software I can easily acquire that will open the .cad file?

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Not sure if I tested it correctly, but PL4401 measure 0V on both sides when I press my black probe to ground and red probe to each terminal... is this the wrong method to test voltage? Or is the component faulty?

[mon2]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

For checking the voltage, you will measure to ground.

Meter in DC volts mode (30v or higher is recommended since the adapter is ~19v).

Black meter probe to ground on the logic board (shield is ok).
Red meter probe to the point to measure.

For N-channel mosfets, the GATE pin # 4 is expected to be ~25 volts to ENABLE.

gate pin # 4 = adapter voltage + REGN voltage (~6 v) = ~25v.

For P-channel mosfets, the GATE pin # 4 should be LOWER than the voltage passing between SOURCE & DRAIN pins to ENABLE.

Continue to review & post the list of voltage checks requested by @mcplslg123.

Which file are you trying to open? Can you post or link it ?

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...2&d=1642585030
on PL4401 is 0V because it only has two pins (contacts really) and they both read 0V on a mtimeter range setting of 20V.

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

I guess I found the schematic here in pdf. I don't know what I was trying to open before. How do I interpret this thing to follow the flow of power?

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1594378972

[mon2]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Review the suggestions above. Post your measurements.

A cpu is often throttled if the power adapter is under rated. Do you have a beefier power adapter from Dell?

If yes, does the bios agree that is with more power?

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

this is the AC adapter that comes with this model laptop. I tried two of them. not faulty. swapped internal ac wire on the board too. all parts have been swapped out except the motherboard.

i did give the measurements right? or did I miss one?

PU4301
PIN1 = 19.4v
PIN4 = 3.13v
PIN8 = 19.44V (PINS 7&8 are joint in same solder, as is 5&6)

PQ4410 for Pin 1/4/8.
PIN1=19.4V
PIN4=1.77VPIN8=19.44V (PINS 7&8 are joint in same solder, as is 5&6)

PL4401 (labelled, 4R7 734 VCM)
0V on both pins. (do I need to power switch on to measure?)

[mcplslg123]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Hmm.. The image at post#4 shows battery is at 99% charge level. Discharge the battery to atlest 90% and then plug the adapter.Does it charge now??

PS:Measurements at post#7 are correct and that proves nothing is wrong with these mosfets.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Yes. I am familiar with DELL power delivery in general and also the Vegas/Turis board for this model. Your electrical readings are absolutely fine.

Therefore, there are only 3 possible causes to your problem:

1. Too low power AC adapter (say 45W or 65W on a board with a dedicated GPU which requires 90W). Probably not your issue but you never know.
What I know is the Vegas/Turis board comes in both UMA integrated CPU graphics and dGPU versions. The two versions require different wattages on the power brick. The version using integrated CPU graphics uses a tiny 45W brick off the top of my head. The DGPU one, I can't remember.
Also check adapter power cable and motherboard power jack for continuity on ID pin.
2. BIOS or EC firmware or hardware issue on KBC chip.
3. Incompatible or damaged battery.

There is a SOFTWARE (Windows level) bypass possible, it just requires admin access and a scheduled task - ThrottleStop on startup can force the CPU to full stock and turbo. But I would recommend finding out what causes the throttle in the first place.

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

Hmm.. The image at post#4 shows battery is at 99% charge level. Discharge the battery to atlest 90% and then plug the adapter.Does it charge now??

PS:Measurements at post#7 are correct and that proves nothing is wrong with these mosfets.

I already discharged the battery to 80% since taking that picture. it says charging but current is still 0ma on bios. I just don't have a screenshot.

I saw a YouTube video where someone with similar model replaced their ncp81208 and I was going to do this first before I realized this forum exists where I might actually learn how to read the schematic and work through it systematically instead of anecdotally.

Aside, is there a good description of that solder procedure? Looks like heatgun to a specific temp (I have ir camera so I feel confident about that) but the flux I'm unsure about and I've only soldered with wire and pins with iron, never these IC with a air gun. (is it called BGA)?

[WhatsTheDellio]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

1. Too low power AC adapter (say 45W or 65W on a board with a dedicated GPU which requires 90W).

integrated graphics Intel HD 3000.
The only difference is I swapped out the old HDD for an SDD but that wouldn't require a different power adapter.

Also check adapter power cable and motherboard power jack for continuity on ID pin.
2. BIOS or EC firmware or hardware issue on KBC chip.
3. Incompatible or damaged battery.

tried 2 different genuine Dell adapters. and 3 batteries (2 genuine Dell and 1 3rd party all behave same way).
replaced the DC jack on motherboard.

The throttle only applies when battery is installed. if I remove battery there is no throttle. And while the battery is not charging I see no reason to have it installed. thus I diagnose the board and repair it hopefully.

[mon2]

Re: dell 3567 / AC fine, but Battery not charging and CPU @ 0.4ghz if battery not rem

BGA = ball grid array. Will have tiny spheres / solder balls underside of the package.

From a quick search, ncp81208 = QFN = Quad Flat pack.

Each side has contacts that can be soldered + 1 in the center for often the heavy ground = we call it the 'metal belly'.

Either way, flux is required = Amtech is a good brand pitched by Louis.

The factory that sells the original Amtech is old school and we attempted to do business with them but they appear to be in bed on exclusives with Louis.

That is fine, but is silly priced in Canada. We bought ours from Aliexpress and it is likely a fake but works fine.

Have you tried Mobile Sentrix ? Check out their catalog. They do want to work with only established businesses but if you really want something from there, PM me and we can drop ship it.

Likely there are other options for the flux in Canada as well.