Intel D845HV

[etnietering]

OK I did a small scale preventative recap of one of these boards. It's the one that's in my soon-to-be-NAS computer. The CPU VRM consists of:
4x NCC KZG 3300uF @ 6.3v and
7x Fujitsu FPCAP 560uF @ 4v

The CPU is a P4 Northwood 2.0GHz, and the hottest I've ever seen it (when my brother had it clogged with dust) was 40C, under full load. I know that KZG can be sensitive to heat, so even though they haven't been under too much stress, I decided to replace them anyways. They're getting to be 7ish years old, and I'm planning on having this computer last me quite a few more years, so I decided to do a recap.
For whatever reason (me just being weird), I decided to replace the KZGs with
2x Rubycon MCZ 3300uF @ 6.3v and
2x Nichicon HZ 3300uF @ 6.3v

It's been up for about an hour, seems to be running just fine

Here's the pictures!

The originals:


And from the other side:


Here's where they used to be:


And the originals (on top), and the new ones (on bottom):


Here's the finished product:


And the other side:


Hopefully it'll last for a good long time!

[kaniki]

Re: Intel D845HV

just out of curiosity, why did you use 2 ruby's and 2 nichi's? Why not 4 of the same?

[etnietering]

Re: Intel D845HV

I don't really know, I'm just a weirdo I suppose...
but who here isn't?

I had it pegged at 100% CPU all night and it's still going strong!

[kaniki]

Re: Intel D845HV

I don't really know, I'm just a weirdo I suppose...
but who here isn't?

Me!!! I am a model of perfection.. I am perfect in every way.. OK OK.. You can stop laughing now.. the laugh is on me.. I'm full of it.. but i can dream cant I??

I would say that if someone was not at least a little odd or weird, then i would worry.. because by that point in time, they probably need a straight jacket and locked up.. Im close but not there yet

[retiredcaps]

Re: Intel D845HV

You should have done 1 of each brand and retest them 12 months later with an ESR meter. :-)

I don't really know, I'm just a weirdo I suppose...
but who here isn't?

[Nargy]

Re: Intel D845HV

I busted a cap on my good old 845.
Tried to unplug the 20-pin PSU jack, but when I yanked it out I busted a cap next to it. So now I can turn on the PC just fine and it works for some 10 minutes or so, then it shuts down. Can't get it to POST for next half an hour or so, then it works fine... for another 10 minutes. Guess I'll need to fix that ASAP.
Can't find my broken cap, must have hoovered it up.

Please advise me what values should I look for when buying a replacement cap.
I'm talking about this cap in the attached picture.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Intel D845HV

22uF 25V Nichicon 85C

I have many Intel D845WN and they all have that cap there. Obviously these boards are different than yours (they are not small factor) but I believe that they use the same capacitor in that position.

[Nargy]

Re: Intel D845HV

Thank you!

Unfortunately we don't have Nichis available here in the Balkans, so I guess I'll just go with ECA-2AHG220. It's 22uf 100V, so hopefully everything should be peachy keen.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Intel D845HV

Those 85C caps on Intel boards [usually see Nichicon VR series] start going bad after about 5 years depending on use and case temp.
- - - That includes the 4&5 mm ones.

I've seen them [VR series] actually bloat on both skt 370 and skt 478 Intel boards.
- - - That includes the 4&5 mm ones too.

Usually they just make the board quirky/unstable or cause random BSOD or reboot without any visual indication they are bad.

Nichicon VZ is the natural replacement for VR.
[In fact I've seen examples of the same model Intel board alternately have VR or VZ from one board to the next. IOW Intel uses VR and VZ interchangeably.]

Now, LXZ, they are easy to get, cheap, and a lot prettier than VZ. [Just a thought..]
.

[Nargy]

Re: Intel D845HV

Thank you all for your suggestions.
As you suggested I should buy the:

22uF 25V Nichicon 85C

I bought the closest thing I could find locally, and that is:

Punsumi PGS 35V 22UF 85C cap (made by Punsumi India Ltd. I bought two, just in case if I mess up soldering. Usually they stock Panasonic here, but they ran out)

I also bought a SMD 35V 22UF.

Is it OK to use SMD (solid metal cap) instead of electrolyte cap in the location I already mentioned?

The values on all the caps I bought today are the same (35V 22UF), and I know Gigabyte highly praised "solid-metal" caps, as you can see here:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2080041,00.asp

I am writing this post from a Gigabyte "higher-middle class" HTPC micro-ATX board, EG41MF-US2H that has ALL caps made in solid-metal, and so far I'm very happy with it.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Intel D845HV

I also bought a SMD 35V 22UF.

Is it OK to use SMD (solid metal cap) instead of electrolyte cap in the location I already mentioned?

SMD does not make them Solid Polymer.
There are a lot of SMD Electrolytic caps that don't have vents.

Yes you can make SMD work in place of a radial but you need to solder some lead into the holes.
Some connections to radials are made inside the holes or on the other side of the board.
No lead = no connection.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Intel D845HV

Punsumi is questionable.
85C is a bad idea.
.
Probably still work for a while, just not as long as it would with 105C Jap caps.
.

[Nargy]

Re: Intel D845HV

Thanks for explanations PCBONEZ.

SMD does not make them Solid Polymer.
There are a lot of SMD Electrolytic caps that don't have vents.

Unfortunately you are completely right on this one. Didn't know that before, but as I googled it - it most likely IS a Electrolytic cap (ventless). The good part is that it should be harder to break... should I need to unplug my PSU (20-pin connector) again. Oh well I'm a thug.

Yes you can make SMD work in place of a radial but you need to solder some lead into the holes.
Some connections to radials are made inside the holes or on the other side of the board.
No lead = no connection.
.

When I asked a the guy in the shop "how do I solder this stuff [SMD] to mobo?" he said "well... you can straighten out its legs [connectors] ... and throw away that small black plastic plate underneath... and then just plug it in and solder it - as you would a regular radial cap". Googled it and it seems that's not the usual way of attaching SMDs. LOL

Procedure that PCBONES suggested actually makes much more sense. But just for the sake of the argument: can I attach SMD the way the salesman recommended or it may begin to leak from underneath and damage my mobo [when I remove the small plastic "plate" on SMD, I dunno what's that for anyway]?

Punsumi is questionable.
85C is a bad idea.
.
Probably still work for a while, just not as long as it would with 105C Jap caps.
.

The CPU is ridiculously cool (runs at approx. 36-37 degrees Celsius = the human body temperature) so even though the case is not very ventilated I suppose it should be OK. Case temp doesn't exceed 40 degrees Celsius.
My friend's Barton 2500+ (not overclocled!) runs on approx. 55 degrees Celsius on light load, and at full load goes up to 62 degrees, and his hard drives (Maxtor) are hotter than mine - and his caps still last for over 3 years. Please correct me if my logic is flawed.

Couldn't find Punsumi reviews/opinions anywhere else, guess it's some obscure brand. If anybody has had experience with Punsumi PGS please comment... especially if running on similar configuration as me: D845HV + Celeron 2.0 Northwood, no overclock whatsoever.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Intel D845HV

I never saw anyone do it the way the salesman said.
I have no idea if that will work.
-
It sounds like it would be harder to do that way.
Any leads folded up in there would be very short.

---
Assuming they have the same number of hours of endurance lifetime..
.. an 85C cap will have 25% of the life span of a 105C cap -> at all temperatures.
-
Endurance Lifetime [the 'Lifetime' shown in data sheets] is NOT expected useful lifetime,, but those two lifetimes will change by the same -%- with temp change.

Each 10C rise in temp reduces [both] lifetimes by 1/2, and it works backwards too.
--- So comparing a 105C / 1000Hr and a 85C / 1000Hr

105C Cap
105C - 1000Hr
95C - 2000Hr
85C - 4000Hr
75C - 8000Hr
65C - 16000Hr
55C - 32000Hr

85C Cap
85C - 1000Hr
75C - 2000Hr
65C - 4000Hr
55C - 8000Hr

Compare the two at 55C

85C caps are best used --
-- to ensure the customer needs the replace the item in a few years.

---
Punsumi is new company, last few years.. They do make low ESR.
I haven't personally seen any Punsumi caps yet but I did research their company when I first heard of them and I came across an email where they were getting tech advice from one of the Ch or Tw crap brand companies.
That did not instill any confidence in me that their product will be any good.
.

[Nargy]

Re: Intel D845HV

Oh my, I didn't expect that difference would be so drastic (that 105's would last 4 times longer at the same temperature).

85C caps are best used --
-- to ensure the customer needs the replace the item in a few years.

LOL

At the end of the line I decided to go with poonani... I mean Punsumi and hope it'll last me a year or two, as that would be more than enough for me.

Punsumi's ESR should be OK. I still can't believe that the company doesn't even have a website. I mean it's supposed to be some high tech company and they don't have web and email? My little niece has web page and email address, and she's a cheerleader teenager.

Punsumi Ltd. was founded back in 1984. but I guess its gonna get terminated pretty soon :-(

Anyway, PCBONEZ, thank you for your help & suggestions.