HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

[CyberFunk]

Well, I decided recently to take on the task in building up a web server and went out to buy a used VP6 board and a pair of 1GHz CPUs. I figured with all the problems plagued with the Abit boards, that I recap the motherboard.

I made the mistake of not testing the board prior to recapping it. Yes, yes, yes I should have known better. Now after recapping the board, the problem I have is that the system will not POST and the PC speakers do not even beep at all.

I have tried booting the system with literally the bare minimum: one and two CPUs, 1 stick of RAM (already tried swapping out the RAM with another stick), and 1 AGP Video Card (tried swappping that too). I know the motherboard is getting power as the CPUs and Videocard fans spins and the onboard LED lights up. The power supply that I powered up the sucker was an Antec TruePower 430W, very lightly used so I highly doubt it's the PSU.

A visual check of the board shows no indications of burnt parts on FETs, Coils, ATX Power Connector, Capacitors or any other components. I replaced all 23 capacitors with the VP6 Kit (Rubycons) purchased here from TC. I have tripled checked all the capacitors for polarity and Voltages/Capacitance levels. I have also checked for continuity via a multimeter at each of the solder joints and everything seems fine.

At this moment in time, I'm stumped and have no idea what to do or anything else I could test. I have attached some pictures showing the capacitors and the solder joint connections, if you need me to re-take any of the shots or need more shots of it.

I hate to have to toss the VP6 board into the trash, any suggestions on what I could do to save this baby?


Having some technical issues trying to upload files to badcaps at the moment, photos to follow soon.

[shadow]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

The problem you have with uploading photo's on this site is probably either the photo's are too large or the file size is too large. Maybe even both.

[i4004]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

check fets with multimeter on 'diode test'.
any fet conducting like its shorted(between all 3 pins)?
then it probably is.

probably at least one is ok if you get fans etc. working, so you should be able to differentiate good fet from bad by doing diode test.
good fet should act simillar to checking cap on diode test; at first low resistance, then rising, (after all, it is connected to those caps).

[kc8adu]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

first clear cmos.
second any antec is suspect due to bad caps.
there is a cap you have to be careful with as there is a tiny easily damaged trace near one lead.

[CyberFunk]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

As promised, the photos. Forgot to mention as well that I have tried re-inserting the battery as well as clearing the bios w/ the jumper.

[kc8adu]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

first it looks like you need a hotter iron.
the problem could be the cold joints i see.
a good joint wont be ragged looking or balled up.
it will fully wet the hole and lead.
time to rework those joints.

[gdement]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

Do you have any flux? That will help with getting the joints to flow properly. Also, don't get frustrated and leave the iron on a joint for too long - you can end up burning the pad that way. A chisel tip is better at transmitting heat than the pointed/conical type. Use a damp rag or sponge to wipe your tip when it gets dirty.

1GHz/133 processors are definitely on the stressful side for a P3 board, so even with only 1 processor installed it's not the lightest test. If you happen to have something older like a mendocino celeron then I'd try it - those would be a lot easier to run, and if that works you'd at least know the board is alive. Marginal stability like that could definitely be explained by the bad joints.

Unfortunately, it's also possible the board has something else wrong with it. A port 80h card (POST card) can reveal if the board is even attempting to POST, but I'm not sure it's worth buying one of those just for 1 repair job. If it's just bad joints, I'd expect it to at least show some activity on port 80h before freezing up.

[willawake]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

crap soldering. looks like some mild scratches on the pcb also. iron slipping?
hope you succeed with a better iron.

[Agent24]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

That soldering is not good... your iron is probably not hot enough, I suspect you may be have been pushing it to melt the solder when you removed the old caps and then you got it slipping? if it's hot enough you don't need any force, the solder will just melt itself (helps if you add your own solder first and then try to desolder)

What iron do you have? have you read the tutorial elsewhere in the forums?

Could be something is shorted/not connected properly due to the bad joints...

It can be easier to get a good joint when the leads are pointing straight up and perpendicular to the board, especially with the tiny holes and pads on motherboards. To stop the cap falling out I use a small bit of soft cloth balled up and put between the bench and the cap to hold it up while soldering

[CyberFunk]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

Actually I think I do have a hot enough iron, maybe the exception is that I wasn't using a chisel tip. The iron that I was using for the job was a 60W pencil tip, and trying to suck up the solder using solder wick. I couldn't find any chisel tips at my local electronics shops, so I figured I take a go at it, didn't think it would have made that big of a difference. But I guess it does.

Considering the state that it is in right now, would you guys recommend that I desolder and remove all the caps and solder. Or should I heat the joints so the solder melts and apply some new solder to it?

[Newbie2]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

Actually I think I do have a hot enough iron, maybe the exception is that I wasn't using a chisel tip. The iron that I was using for the job was a 60W pencil tip, and trying to suck up the solder using solder wick. I couldn't find any chisel tips at my local electronics shops, so I figured I take a go at it, didn't think it would have made that big of a difference. But I guess it does.

Considering the state that it is in right now, would you guys recommend that I desolder and remove all the caps and solder. Or should I heat the joints so the solder melts and apply some new solder to it?

Your board doesn't sound to be able to be saved, so you can scrap the new Rubycon caps out of it if you want to.

The only easy reasons I can think of about why it doesn't POST and doesn't beep is:

1. Dead CPUs (not that bad, change the CPUs with known working ones)
2. Totally failed RAM (also not that bad, replace the RAM)
3. BIOS/CMOS chip loose (doesn't look loose in your photos)
4. BIOS/CMOS chip failed (try swapping that if you have another VP6, which you don't have )
5. Bad capacitors (which you solved)
6. Whole board dead by improper handling which caused static

[willawake]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

well i think the soldering issue should be sorted out before we look into other factors.

first you will need to get a better tip before you do anything else.
what kind of solder are you using anyway?
once you get that sorted then first rework those joints. you could remove excess existing solder with a desoldering bulb or wick. you want nice shiny uniform looking joints.
then if that doesnt work then remove the caps and solder them in again
if that doesnt work then check those scratched traces
if that doesnt work then need to look into other factors.

[i4004]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

didn't think it would have made that big of a difference. But I guess it does.

what REALLY makes the difference is how clean do you keep your tip while soldering.
you can use dampened denim to keep it clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering_iron#Cleaning

look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2...eature=related
(hm...youtube is not really working anymore...but perhpas you're closer to their server...hehe)
alternate link
http://www.curiousinventor.com/guides/How_To_Solder

[kikkoman]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

i haven't really found a way yet of reliably desoldering mobo caps with de-solder wick (and a 50W iron). it simply sucks too much heat, especially with newer boards that usually have large ground planes.
i don't care how the old caps come out, but once they are, cleaning the holes works fine with a needle, toothpick or whatever. even then wick doesn't really work (unless you have good access to both sides of the board, which doesn't occur too often).

i got this - cheap but extremely handy - kit from the local 0.99€ store:

[kc8adu]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

since we dont know if this board was nfg before the recap all we can do is eliminate the stupid stuff.
start with a good iron and resolder your new caps.
if nothing then start by measuring vcore,vdimm,vagp.
lesson here is to test before recapping.
btw the joint in the attached pic is one to be careful around.
many boards sent to me after a failed attempt have damage at this part.
its ec28.note the trace connecting to the - lead.
easy to damage.

[shadow]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

Actually I think I do have a hot enough iron, maybe the exception is that I wasn't using a chisel tip. The iron that I was using for the job was a 60W pencil tip, and trying to suck up the solder using solder wick. I couldn't find any chisel tips at my local electronics shops, so I figured I take a go at it, didn't think it would have made that big of a difference. But I guess it does.

A chisel tip is 100x better than using a pencil tip. I know because my cheap soldering station came with a pencil tip. A chisel tip cost me an extra AU$6 or so. It was a generic product thou. Not Weller brand or anything. However it still transferred heat so much better.

[willawake]

Re: HELP - Can't resurrect VP6 - Warning 56k beware

i haven't really found a way yet of reliably desoldering mobo caps with de-solder wick

i agree. its only good for picking up excess solder although i prefer a solder sucker partially compressed for that.