Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

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  • stevo1210
    Badcaps Legend
    • Oct 2006
    • 4156
    • Australia

    #1

    Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

    My Dlink DSL-G604T all-in-one (WIFI/ Ethernet router/ ADSL modem) has had an issue lately where sometimes my internet will drop out for a few seconds and then come back sometimes it will do this continually even after I restart the router.
    The wireless segment of the router is fine though, it's rock stable and doesnt drop connections.
    The internet continually dropped out today,so I got real cheesed off because it kept doing this, so I decided to open it up and have a look.

    My first reaction was 'holy crap.... are those GSC?' and 'what the hell are TBOR brand caps'.
    Yes it was indeed filled with GSC caps. Really big GSC caps as well. The values of the GSC caps were 1000uf 25V and are 12.5mm in diameter. They are not bulging or leaking and look physically fine. The rest of the caps are 470uf and under. The TBOR caps are 220uf.
    I took some pics but I have to charge up my camera before I can upload some pics.

    I've had this router since late 2006 and the router is on during the day and is switched off before I go to bed. Sometimes it is left running 24/7.
    There is no fan on the router and it is completely enclosed.... I've noticed it gets slightly warm but not hot. It's still under warranty but I feel that I have the ability to fix it instead of wait like months for the router to come back and not have internet for that time period.

    Anyway, could the caps be the problem here?? (I suspect the GSC could be internally failed) or do I have to look into something else??

    Thanks.
    Last edited by stevo1210; 03-14-2008, 05:20 AM.
    Don't find love, let love find you. That's why its called falling in love, because you don't force yourself to fall, you just fall. - Anonymous
  • starfury1
    Badcaps Legend
    • May 2006
    • 1256

    #2
    Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

    caps are possible I suppose but this could have other causes that might be more likely
    After seeing that thing on TT last night, Te$tra are a bloody good bet
    plastic bags over cables in pits...no wonder the phone system is falling apart and then these wankers go on about how much they made...$$$$$$
    (cause they spend Sweet Fanny Adams on fixing anything properly...to busy laying people off)
    No wonder they call braodband here fraudband


    I would first try to confirm your modem is the issue not settings or Internet ISP connection.
    or Ethernet connections

    If you got another modem perhaps try that

    But yeah they are crap Tbor and GSC so if your game you could replace but I think its less likely to be your problem. (possible)
    if you said it was running 24/7 for 2 years and got hot Id be a little more incline to possibly blame them.

    just make sure its not RoHs unit if it is don't used leaded solder or equipment.
    not sure what the best option is with that.
    you would need a nice hot iron and maybe you can get away with a new tip and RoHs solder (the tin only stuff)

    done any googling on the model to see if there are issues with it?


    See what the guys round here think.

    Cheers Stevo
    Last edited by starfury1; 03-14-2008, 08:42 AM.
    You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

    Comment

    • stevo1210
      Badcaps Legend
      • Oct 2006
      • 4156
      • Australia

      #3
      Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

      I don't have another modem so I can't test if it's my ISP or my modem. In regards to RoHS solder, can't normal solder and RoHS solder mix each other?? oh and the unit isn't an RoHS unit from what I can see.

      Thanks.
      Don't find love, let love find you. That's why its called falling in love, because you don't force yourself to fall, you just fall. - Anonymous

      Comment

      • starfury1
        Badcaps Legend
        • May 2006
        • 1256

        #4
        Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

        Re Solder
        Not as far as I am aware,
        they cant be mixed is the story from what I understand.

        I could be wrong but I don't think you can or possibly should even if you can

        Admittedly its more tin then anything but they can and do use other stuff in the mix.

        From docs I read on manufacturing, lead contamination with RoHs stuff will cause dry joints if this applies to repair I don't know (suspect same thought)

        normally you should use the same type of solder regardless
        lead stuff is 60/40 (that mixture was chosen for a specific reason) but there are variations in mixture and some has other stuff added such as copper etc

        Rohs solder does require hotter temp irons too, its melting point is higher
        I think (not sure) that tip plating is optimized for tin only type solder

        I have you to look into it properly and gear up for it but I suppose I will soon as now its the standard and lead based stuff is history.

        anyway thats what I THINK is the situation I don't know for sure on the repair side of things

        bugger no spare....modem

        On your modem if it is it should be marked somewhere as being RoHs from what I understand.

        Well I'd give it a few days but its up to you if you want to recap
        really decent caps wont hurt I suppose and if it is caps it will clears that.
        Just saying, it not as likely to be a caps issue...sure possible
        (not like an MB of 5 years ago when there was a 99% chance it was)

        I dont think we have an FAQ on RoHs and what you can and cant do
        (or get away with) bit of a bugger to have to have to set of gear but that might be it

        There is a thread on RoHs and probably a few of posts on it in other threads
        I dont recall much on actual gear for using with both types or what you should and shouldn't do


        Cheers mate, All
        You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

        Comment

        • gonzo0815
          Badcaps Legend
          • Feb 2006
          • 1600

          #5
          Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

          Well, the theory is, that if you do mix RoHs solder with lead, the solder joints could get weaker in the end, due to different phase generation (the different elements separate due to different melting points) during cooling down.

          From my point this is probably true, but the difference is probably only for BGA and fine pitch soldering from practical mater.
          The whole electronic industry has used leaded solder fore ages. And even silver solder, which is a no no in conjunction wit lead (as silver would separate at last due to it`s high melting point, which is always the inner base of a solder joint) was widely used even for SMD & fine pitch.

          So in the end, i think it dos not mater if you are using a RoHs solder or leaded solder on a lead-free board.
          But sure, from an environmental and may be disposal point of view, it is fore sure not the green route.

          From what i have read, even very small parts of lead would weaken the solder joint.
          Any way, i would say any hand made solder connection will be far more endurable then anything from the solder bath.

          Forget to add, that it was common pratice for any GRUNDIG TV set, to resolder anything inside with leaded solder, to avoid weak solder joints.
          They have used a pure tin solder fore a long time, even before the EU was founded.
          Last edited by gonzo0815; 03-15-2008, 07:01 PM.

          Comment

          • stevo1210
            Badcaps Legend
            • Oct 2006
            • 4156
            • Australia

            #6
            Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

            if I decide to replace the GSC caps, whould i be using Low-ESR or general purpose caps??
            Don't find love, let love find you. That's why its called falling in love, because you don't force yourself to fall, you just fall. - Anonymous

            Comment

            • shadow
              Badcaps Veteran
              • Feb 2007
              • 732
              • Australia

              #7
              Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

              I do not think Low-ESR would hurt the circuit at all.

              Comment

              • Fizzycapola
                Badcaps Veteran
                • Oct 2006
                • 423

                #8
                Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

                I cannot be sure because I didn't take any readings beforehand. I noticed after replacing caps on my device, seemed to run hotter. Which is not preferable. This could be down to reducing resistance and therefore increasing voltage to the chips, something I think was noticed on this forum in the past on someones motherboard recap, also on my motherboard I had to set the voltage manually lower than I normally would (though a benefit of good caps of course was much more stable voltage leading to less errors). My preference would be to run the chips at their lowest operating voltage to minimise heat output, dropping voltage by a very small ammount such as on 0.1v Athlon CPU reduces it's operating temperature by 10°C (and aslong as the parts aren't failing they will tolerate being undervolted), I wonder the best route of keeping resistance to a level to minimise voltage to chips, perhaps using a type of resistor somehow.

                I think before any changes you should gain as much data as you can such as temperatures and voltages of different parts. Aswell as records of connection data.
                Rubycon Rubycon Rubycon

                Comment

                • starfury1
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • May 2006
                  • 1256

                  #9
                  Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

                  well yeah low ESR shouldn't hurt but as pointed out other issues may arise

                  Id just use good quality caps you don't need rolls Royce super low esr for that application

                  you will have to go to RS or something as DS etc arn't going to have decent quality caps

                  I think before any changes you should gain as much data as you can such as temperatures and voltages of different parts. As well as records of connection data.
                  That might be a good Idea really from what Fizzy C has said on the linky modem

                  look at the spec that those caps are suppose to have and go a grade or 2 better
                  in a name brand

                  Humm interesting Gonzo thanks....
                  so yeah I thought they would mix just wasn't sure on the dry joint aspect from what I had read...

                  You would I guess still need a hotter temp to melt tin only solder joint? I guess
                  and yeah not green and could create problems...due to the lead.

                  Still an RoHs setup would be the correct way to go for working RoHS PCB's

                  So if you got an Iron that can hit about 430C and a new *tip with tin only solder you could get away with it as an Rohs set up?
                  (without using leaded solder.)
                  But you could mix the two and run the risk of bad joints or joints that might fail later ?

                  (from what I read the lead tends to pool, not mix well in the joint)

                  (*tip is the next thing I'll have to look at)

                  Thanks Cheers
                  Last edited by starfury1; 03-16-2008, 11:23 PM.
                  You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

                  Comment

                  • Fizzycapola
                    Badcaps Veteran
                    • Oct 2006
                    • 423

                    #10
                    Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

                    I've yet to see GP caps inside a router. Routers/Modems similar to PC, they have RAM (8-64MB) CPU (100-300Mhz) etc.
                    Rubycon Rubycon Rubycon

                    Comment

                    • gonzo0815
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 1600

                      #11
                      Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

                      Most routers are using some step down buck regulators, which would indicate that low esr capacitors would be the appropriate replacement.
                      I would say Rubycon ZL Pany FC should be the right series for those routers.

                      Personally i have never seen an increasing voltage due to good low esr capacitors, but sure it may could happen.

                      All my network equipment is already recapped with low or ultra low esr capacitors (i used what was available). I haven`t any problems wit heat development or elevated voltage.

                      Comment

                      • starfury1
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • May 2006
                        • 1256

                        #12
                        Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

                        ment to post on this before yeah on the question which I didn't answer totally

                        GP no I wouldn't use them but as I said I dont think you need to use the highest either, as I said.....

                        Gonzo yeah agree I really don't think you need the stuff for *VRM output in this application is what I was saying (not very well by the looks of it)
                        (* thats not to say you cant use them, but there may be slim possibility of some circuit not likening them too)

                        I dont see many of them so never stopped to think about what drives them really just knew you need something better then a GP
                        (edit: actually now I come to think of it ZL I think was recommended for the job with the 530 modem..)

                        ZL series is recommended for switchers
                        Panasonic FC
                        (as has been discussed before and opinions vary a bit)
                        might be the better choice rather then FM series due to their better heat handling, so the story goes (and not to open that can again here)

                        Not sure whats available in the voltage you said

                        I am guessing you may have a few but not totally all you need from left overs of recaps (new I am talking here)...watch your height too...you don't want to get them in there and find you cant close the case... probably be ok but some cases do cut fine
                        (like the Thompson speedtouch 510/30 adsl 1 modem, cheap as chips on ebay)

                        BTW you know how we all like looking at naked PCB's do you mind posting a few of photos (mean look what happen to Doods post, pages and pages of naked psu"s the good the bad and the ugly of psu photo's)

                        Cheers
                        Last edited by starfury1; 03-20-2008, 07:25 AM.
                        You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

                        Comment

                        • Fizzycapola
                          Badcaps Veteran
                          • Oct 2006
                          • 423

                          #13
                          Re: Dlink DSL-G604T suspected bad caps??

                          Originally posted by starfury1
                          BTW you know how we all like looking at naked PCB's do you mind posting a few of photos
                          I agree, it's very dull just to have text to read.
                          Rubycon Rubycon Rubycon

                          Comment

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