vp2130b cap help

[retiredcaps]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Most of this forum call them crapxon (instead of capxon) caps. PlainBill is partial to Panasonic FM caps and since FR=FM, and FM > Capxon, go ahead with Panasonic FR caps.

Other favoured options are Rubycon and United Chemi-con.

Hi Plain Bill,

Not sure i understand your comment. I was more referring to the comparison of the Panasonic FR vs the CapXOn (which is the one on the Inverter board), would the Panasonic FR be comparable or better than the CapXon that i am replacing. CapXon features were listed by endevite earlier on..

[Vandalix]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Thanks for that.

So i took a look at the Mainboard/Motherboard as well, and found the 6 Caps gone there as well. Just for everyone's reference, the VP2030B mainboard is identical to the VP2130B mainboard. So all instructions are valid for both.

[Splinter]

Re: vp2130b cap help

What a great thread! Having just resurrected a VX924 by replacing a bunch of caps, I decided that I would have a crack at fixing one of my VP2130b displays that I use on my CAD systems - I'm a mechanical engineer by training so forgive my basic electrical knowledge.

Reading through the thread I don't see the symptoms that are effecting my VP2130b. It starts up okay but as the internal temperature starts to rise the display turns off and then back on with the "on" periods gradually getting shorter as time goes on and temperature rises. However,it never completely turns off.

In its self induced "off" state, the green power light goes off and at the same time there seems to be some low level backlight showing. In this state the display can be manually turned off completely by pushing the power button, at which point the screen goes completely black i.e. its really off! Let the display cool for a while and it can be used again before the temperature rises and the "on/off" cycle starts over.

I have already replaced the three caps on the inverter board which had no effect on the problem, so I'm guessing that problem is power board related. That said, how would I know as I'm way out of my depth here, so would really appreciate some expert advice.

I have carefully inspected all the caps on all four boards, and visually there's are no obvious blown caps.

Splinter

[PlainBill]

Re: vp2130b cap help

What a great thread! Having just resurrected a VX924 by replacing a bunch of caps, I decided that I would have a crack at fixing one of my VP2130b displays that I use on my CAD systems - I'm a mechanical engineer by training so forgive my basic electrical knowledge.

Reading through the thread I don't see the symptoms that are effecting my VP2130b. It starts up okay but as the internal temperature starts to rise the display turns off and then back on with the "on" periods gradually getting shorter as time goes on and temperature rises. However,it never completely turns off.

In its self induced "off" state, the green power light goes off and at the same time there seems to be some low level backlight showing. In this state the display can be manually turned off completely by pushing the power button, at which point the screen goes completely black i.e. its really off! Let the display cool for a while and it can be used again before the temperature rises and the "on/off" cycle starts over.

I have already replaced the three caps on the inverter board which had no effect on the problem, so I'm guessing that problem is power board related. That said, how would I know as I'm way out of my depth here, so would really appreciate some expert advice.

I have carefully inspected all the caps on all four boards, and visually there's are no obvious blown caps.

Splinter

I've heard that story before. One of the more frustrating episodes involved trying to help fix a 'two seconds to black' problem. When a picture was finally posted, half a dozen bulged caps were obvious. Even worse, some Chinese manufactures have learned to make caps that fail without any obvious physical signs.

So the first step, what brands an series of caps are on the board? Also, if you could provide a picture of the board in your monitor, it may help us. Follow the link in my signature to the FAQ on attaching pictures.

The symptoms definitely point to overheating, if it wasn't obvious.

PlainBill

[rachael7]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Ok for the Powersupply, all my caps were good, however A Taicon existed that I did not trust, so I replaced it. Other powersupplies have been known to have bad caps however mine did not, but you can find those searching these forums.

I apologize for my failure to search the forum as suggested in the post, but not being the EE type, I wasn't quite sure how to compose the query, so I hope you can indulge me. I'm competent enough with the iron, but weak on the specifications questions, so I could use a bit of advice. On my power supply board, the big 150uF 400V cap doesn't look so good and I think it could do with replacement. You can see it in the OP's picture here to the upper right:



Would this one make a suitable replacement? The physical size and obvious specs match up, but I know not the first thing about ESR, impedance, and whatnot. Thanks for any advice!

[retiredcaps]

Re: vp2130b cap help

What exactly is the problem with the monitor? It is rare that the big main filter cap goes bad. I'm not saying it is not bad, but rare.

On my power supply board, the big 150uF 400V cap doesn't look so good and I think it could do with replacement.

[rachael7]

Re: vp2130b cap help

What exactly is the problem with the monitor? It is rare that the big main filter cap goes bad. I'm not saying it is not bad, but rare.

It did the slow to turn on, slower to turn on, wouldn't turn on anymore thing that's been described here before. Most likely its the inverter board, as others have found. But the only obviously visually bad caps (domed tops) were on the motherboard, and this big one on the power supply. I'm not saying for sure it is bad - its not blown apart or anything - but the top doesn't look totally flat to me. I figured caps are cheap and I have the thing apart, so it would be lazy of me to skip on that might be in question.

EDIT: Worth noting that this is my 2nd VP2130b that's failed this exact same way and I have a third that looks to be on the way out. The first one was exchanged under warranty (for a refurb with a dim backlight), but this one and the next one aren't under warranty, so I hope I can learn to fix 'em.

[retiredcaps]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Okay, so if you want to replace the main filter cap, look at the original cap for the manufacturer and series and then search for the datasheet. For example, if it is Capxon KF series 105C, look for that datasheet.

The datasheet will list the ESR ripple, etc. Then compare that to the Nichicon one your listed. If they are close then it is a suitable replacement.

I figured caps are cheap and I have the thing apart, so it would be lazy of me to skip on that might be in question.

[Splinter]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Thanks PlainBill. I've attached detailed pics of the inverter board and power board on this post. I can get to the main board later if required.

Inverter Board INV20-6009

There are only 3 caps on this board - these were CapXon 180uF 35V 105ºC - and when the "on/off" problem first manifested itself I found these were well blown, so I replace them with Panasonic 180uF 35V 105ºC caps part number EEUFC1V181 (pic Invboard_1). However, this did not cure, or change, the problem.

Power Board EADP64BF B

This board is populated with a total of 7 caps, here are the details.

1 x 1000uF 16V Can't make out the name but its the horizontal light brown cap shown in the Pwrboard pics.

1 x 1000uF 25V Nichicon Black horizontal next to brown cap

1 x 220uF 25V Taicon Upright just behind aluminum heat sink

1 x 47uF 50V Ltec Along side the large cap

1 x 22uF 50V Ltec At the base of the large cap

1 x 150uF 400V Ltec Large horizontal cap - can't actually see the rating for this cap, but pics of replacement boards clearly show it as noted

1 x 470uF 16V Ltec Upright cap next to the horizontal caps

All of the above are 105ºC rated. I'm not sure about the series of any of these caps. How would this be indicated on the cap?

As said in my last post, visually all the caps look good. There is a slight heat discoloration under the heat sink next to the Nichicon and unidentified cap.

Splinter

[rachael7]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Okay, so if you want to replace the main filter cap, look at the original cap for the manufacturer and series and then search for the datasheet. For example, if it is Capxon KF series 105C, look for that datasheet.

The datasheet will list the ESR ripple, etc. Then compare that to the Nichicon one your listed. If they are close then it is a suitable replacement.

Thanks, retiredcaps, I'll give that a shot.

[PlainBill]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Thanks PlainBill. I've attached detailed pics of the inverter board and power board on this post. I can get to the main board later if required.

Inverter Board INV20-6009

There are only 3 caps on this board - these were CapXon 180uF 35V 105ºC - and when the "on/off" problem first manifested itself I found these were well blown, so I replace them with Panasonic 180uF 35V 105ºC caps part number EEUFC1V181 (pic Invboard_1). However, this did not cure, or change, the problem.

Power Board EADP64BF B

This board is populated with a total of 7 caps, here are the details.

1 x 1000uF 16V Can't make out the name but its the horizontal light brown cap shown in the Pwrboard pics.

1 x 1000uF 25V Nichicon Black horizontal next to brown cap

1 x 220uF 25V Taicon Upright just behind aluminum heat sink

1 x 47uF 50V Ltec Along side the large cap

1 x 22uF 50V Ltec At the base of the large cap

1 x 150uF 400V Ltec Large horizontal cap - can't actually see the rating for this cap, but pics of replacement boards clearly show it as noted

1 x 470uF 16V Ltec Upright cap next to the horizontal caps

All of the above are 105ºC rated. I'm not sure about the series of any of these caps. How would this be indicated on the cap?

As said in my last post, visually all the caps look good. There is a slight heat discoloration under the heat sink next to the Nichicon and unidentified cap.

Splinter

You are correct, all the caps look physically fine. The light brown cap is made by United Chemicon. The 'crown' logo is distinctive. Rereading the thread, I had a similar experience with an earlier version of your monitor - a VP211B. I 'fixed' that one by swapping the logic card.

A couple of suggestions come to mind.

1. Try operating the monitor with the back off to see if the improved cooling has an effect.

2. Try measuring the output voltages of the power supply while the monitor is working and again when it fails.

3. I prefer a single over-all shot taken from directly above rather than a series of more detailed pictures. I'd like on of those of the logic card (video processor, etc).

4. The Nichicon and United Chemicon caps are a good brand, the others are suspect. I suggest replacing them all. This is a process for selecting caps.

PlainBill

[Splinter]

Re: vp2130b cap help

You are correct, all the caps look physically fine. The light brown cap is made by United Chemicon. The 'crown' logo is distinctive. Rereading the thread, I had a similar experience with an earlier version of your monitor - a VP211B. I 'fixed' that one by swapping the logic card.

A couple of suggestions come to mind.

1. Try operating the monitor with the back off to see if the improved cooling has an effect.

2. Try measuring the output voltages of the power supply while the monitor is working and again when it fails.

3. I prefer a single over-all shot taken from directly above rather than a series of more detailed pictures. I'd like on of those of the logic card (video processor, etc).

4. The Nichicon and United Chemicon caps are a good brand, the others are suspect. I suggest replacing them all. This is a process for selecting caps.

PlainBill

I'll take a plan view pics of all boards tomorrow. Meantime, I have managed to find and attach a pdf of the VP2130b service manual. Might help with any future trouble shooting!

Splinter

[Splinter]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Okay, the VP2130b service manual pdf didn't stick. I guess at slightly over 5Mb it's a bit on the large size.

Splinter

[PlainBill]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Okay, the VP2130b service manual pdf didn't stick. I guess at slightly over 5Mb it's a bit on the large size.

Splinter

Yes, that's a limitation. At least post the link.

Suggestion: I've seen a lot of service manuals on Scribd. Perhaps upload it there so we can all find it? Something to think about.

PlainBill

[Splinter]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Yes, that's a limitation. At least post the link.

Suggestion: I've seen a lot of service manuals on Scribd. Perhaps upload it there so we can all find it? Something to think about.

PlainBill

Here are the links for the service manuals for VP2130b and VP2030b though I believe that these products use near identical hardware.

VP2130b Service Manual

VP2030b Service Manual

I have attached plan view pics of the logic, power and inverter boards as you requested.

Regarding your suggestions. I'll can try reassembling the display and running it without the back cover. Might also try gently warming the individual boards with a heat gun in an effort to identify the faulty board. I don't have the correct multimeter probes for accessing the output terminals but will see what I can do to measure voltages.

That said, I really need the display up and running pretty soon so don't have the luxury of time here. So my fallback plans are firstly to replace all but the big 150uF cap on the power board, as you have suggested and if this still doesn't fix the problem, replace all the boards, starting with the power and inverter boards. Bit of a cop-out I know, but when needs must . . ! I have eventually managed to find new replacement components.

Thanks for your advice. I'll keep you posted on progress.

Splinter

[alexanna]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Splinter.
If your problem is heat related, I have had some luck, with the tip of my voltmeter lead slightly flexing various points around the circuit boards to locate poor solders joints, you might be able to Recreate your problem .There have been some I have found that I could not find with my eyeball. Be careful there are some high voltages on the board.Also a sewing needle attached to a very well insulated object makes a good back prober.
Al.

[Splinter]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Splinter.
If your problem is heat related, I have had some luck, with the tip of my voltmeter lead slightly flexing various points around the circuit boards to locate poor solders joints, you might be able to Recreate your problem .There have been some I have found that I could not find with my eyeball. Be careful there are some high voltages on the board.Also a sewing needle attached to a very well insulated object makes a good back prober.
Al.

Al,

Thanks for your advice. The difficultly with the VP2130b boards is accessing them when the display is running due to the way in which the unit is constructed. However, I'll certainly give it a try.

I'm just about to order the replacement caps for the power board. I have identified caps that match both capacitance and voltage but its been difficult to pin down the ripple level for the originals so have had to go for a simple size for size match.

Is there any rule of thumb for caps used in this sort of power board? A dim question I know, but is it better to chose caps with a high or low ripple level if available?

Splinter

[Splinter]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Splinter.
If your problem is heat related, I have had some luck, with the tip of my voltmeter lead slightly flexing various points around the circuit boards to locate poor solders joints, you might be able to Recreate your problem .There have been some I have found that I could not find with my eyeball. Be careful there are some high voltages on the board.Also a sewing needle attached to a very well insulated object makes a good back prober.
Al.

Al,

Thanks for your advice. The difficultly with the VP2130b boards is accessing them when the display is running due to the way in which the unit is constructed. However, I'll certainly give it a try.

I'm just about to order the replacement caps for the power board. I have identified caps that match both capacitance and voltage but its been difficult to pin down the ripple level for the originals so have had to go for a simple size for size match.

Is there any rule of thumb for caps used in this sort of power board? A dim question I know, but is it better to chose caps with a high or low ripple level if available?

Splinter

[alexanna]

Re: vp2130b cap help

Al,

Thanks for your advice. The difficultly with the VP2130b boards is accessing them when the display is running due to the way in which the unit is constructed. However, I'll certainly give it a try.

I'm just about to order the replacement caps for the power board. I have identified caps that match both capacitance and voltage but its been difficult to pin down the ripple level for the originals so have had to go for a simple size for size match.

Is there any rule of thumb for caps used in this sort of power board? A dim question I know, but is it better to chose caps with a high or low ripple level if available?



Splinter

I should,And will let some one else answer you question about capacitors
Al.

[el3ctroded]

Re: vp2130b cap help

What do you mean "High or low ripple level"? For caps, a higher ripple current rating is good, it means it can handle more ripple current. The higher the rating, usually = larger size caps.