DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

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  • Agent24
    I see dead caps
    • Oct 2007
    • 4940
    • New Zealand

    #1

    DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

    Got another 17" LCD here, just under 2 years old.

    It's DSE (Dick Smith Electronics) brand but would be made by someone else, In this case I guess Proview, since the sticker says "Model: 700P" and there's "Proview Electronics Co. Ltd" written down the bottom.


    Fault:

    This one will turn on but the display has a red hue to it, although it's not uniform.

    The red hue goes away and the colour returns to normal, however I noticed what I think was a hissing sound, the light started to flicker intermittently and shortly after that the display turns off.

    Can anyone tell me the cause of this?



    Do I spot Fuhjyyu, Su'scon and Teapo? Why yes I do..... what a nasty combination.

    Sadly I can't laugh at them since none of the capacitors are visually faulty, except for the names on them
    Attached Files
    "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
    -David VanHorn
  • kc8adu
    Super Moderator
    • Nov 2003
    • 8832
    • U.S.A!

    #2
    Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

    bad caps and bad lamps.

    Comment

    • Bobdee
      Badcaps Veteran
      • Jun 2008
      • 461

      #3
      Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

      Originally posted by Agent24
      Sadly I can't laugh at them since none of the capacitors are visually faulty, except for the names on them
      Thats tops, nice one


      Comment

      • Agent24
        I see dead caps
        • Oct 2007
        • 4940
        • New Zealand

        #4
        Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

        Originally posted by kc8adu
        bad caps and bad lamps.
        Is it possible the inverter/PSU could be doing it? I can't see a half-decent brand of cap for miles...

        What's would be the problem with the lamps? Surely not age (two years isn't very long)

        Would replacing them be a viable option? What would be the cost?

        I had to unplug 4 pairs of wires to take the LCD off (this monitor comes apart backwards) does that mean 4 backlights?

        I guess all 4 couldn't be faulty? Can I unplug 1 at a time or something?


        Originally posted by Bobdee
        Thats tops, nice one


        I'm surprised they haven't blown, stuck inside a metal box with minimal ventilation and sitting just above the heatsink - and heat rises, of course...
        "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
        -David VanHorn

        Comment

        • EGuevarae
          Badcaps Legend
          • Nov 2008
          • 1336
          • USA

          #5
          Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

          Originally posted by Agent24
          Is it possible the inverter/PSU could be doing it? I can't see a half-decent brand of cap for miles...

          What's would be the problem with the lamps? Surely not age (two years isn't very long)

          Would replacing them be a viable option? What would be the cost?

          I had to unplug 4 pairs of wires to take the LCD off (this monitor comes apart backwards) does that mean 4 backlights?

          I guess all 4 couldn't be faulty? Can I unplug 1 at a time or something?

          I'm surprised they haven't blown, stuck inside a metal box with minimal ventilation and sitting just above the heatsink - and heat rises, of course...
          On Polaroid TVs with 1.5~2.5 years of service, the pink hue is present ONLY in one of the four tubes(they have one pair at the top and one at the bottom, arranged so only 1 connector is needed from top and from bottom).
          Pink hue is definitely the lamps. As for the caps, change them as a preventive measure : if they have not failed yet, they will.
          There are 10 kind of people in this world: those that understand binary, and those who don't.
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          Comment

          • ratdude747
            Black Sheep
            • Nov 2008
            • 17136
            • USA

            #6
            Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

            try the caps first and see what that does, then post your results. then we will go from there
            sigpic

            (Insert witty quote here)

            Comment

            • Agent24
              I see dead caps
              • Oct 2007
              • 4940
              • New Zealand

              #7
              Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

              Replacing the capacitors is obvious... But is it worth it?

              If a lamp is faulty what can be done? I heard they're not easy to replace and probably harder to source...

              But then after reading some things, apparently in some cases a faulted inverter can cause this problem - I don't know.

              That's why I ask if there's an easy way to do a test to find out if it's the light or inverter?
              "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
              -David VanHorn

              Comment

              • PlainBill
                Badcaps Legend
                • Feb 2009
                • 7034
                • USA

                #8
                Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                Originally posted by Agent24
                Replacing the capacitors is obvious... But is it worth it?

                If a lamp is faulty what can be done? I heard they're not easy to replace and probably harder to source...

                But then after reading some things, apparently in some cases a faulted inverter can cause this problem - I don't know.

                That's why I ask if there's an easy way to do a test to find out if it's the light or inverter?
                Whether or not it is worth it is a matter of opinion. If it's a 15" or 17" monitor - no, it's not. If it's a 21" monitor with 6 tubes - probably. If it's a 42" LCD TV, certainly.

                I suspect a faulty inverter is the cause more often than the CCFLs. But I don't have a big enough sample size to be sure.

                This has been repeated any number of times. Some people even have a test box to make it easier. Buy a case mod light kit, the kind that consists of two ccfls and an inverter. Use the CCFLs from the kit to test the monitor's inverter. Use the inverter from the kit to test the monitor's ccfls.

                PlainBill
                Last edited by PlainBill; 07-15-2009, 08:14 PM.
                For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

                Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

                Comment

                • EGuevarae
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 1336
                  • USA

                  #9
                  Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                  Originally posted by PlainBill
                  This has been repeated any number of times. Some people even have a test box to make it easier. Buy a case mod light kit, the kind that consists of two ccfls and an inverter. Use the CCFLs from the kit to test the monitor's inverter. Use the inverter from the kit to test the monitor's ccfls.

                  PlainBill
                  Go that way. I have one and it really helps to rule out (or confirm) that CCFLs are damaged. As for if it is worth it or not, if viewed from $$ point of view, maybe a 15" is not if the CCFLs are dead (besides from the caps). A 17" maybe, and 19" & up almost for sure. If viewed from other point of view, anything you can spare going to the landfill is worth it.
                  There are 10 kind of people in this world: those that understand binary, and those who don't.
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                  Comment

                  • Agent24
                    I see dead caps
                    • Oct 2007
                    • 4940
                    • New Zealand

                    #10
                    Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                    CCFL tester.. I actually remembered that I have an inverter for one of those case lights (came with a 2nd hand PC, I took it out and never used it)

                    Only does one lamp though and wouldn't there be issues with different voltages? - Also the plug is completely different shape.

                    Are CCFLs polarised? the shape of all the plugs seems to suggest so.
                    "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                    -David VanHorn

                    Comment

                    • EGuevarae
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 1336
                      • USA

                      #11
                      Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                      Originally posted by Agent24
                      CCFL tester.. I actually remembered that I have an inverter for one of those case lights (came with a 2nd hand PC, I took it out and never used it)

                      Only does one lamp though and wouldn't there be issues with different voltages? - Also the plug is completely different shape.

                      Are CCFLs polarised? the shape of all the plugs seems to suggest so.
                      Mine does two an a time, and since I connect it to a specially modified PSU, the amp rate is not an issue. And they are AC, so I think polarity is not a (big?) issue. They use, however, a wider cable for input and a thin one for return.
                      If I find the pics (they are somewhere around here, I posted them already), I'll post them.
                      There are 10 kind of people in this world: those that understand binary, and those who don't.
                      • ASUS ROG Maximus IX Code
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                      Comment

                      • PlainBill
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 7034
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                        Originally posted by Agent24
                        CCFL tester.. I actually remembered that I have an inverter for one of those case lights (came with a 2nd hand PC, I took it out and never used it)

                        Only does one lamp though and wouldn't there be issues with different voltages? - Also the plug is completely different shape.

                        Are CCFLs polarised? the shape of all the plugs seems to suggest so.
                        Wow!! Lots of objections. I'm beginning to wonder if you are an agent for a landfill.

                        The inverter supplied with a case mod kit is the cheapest possible design. The typical case mod kit has a 12" CCFL - about 300 mm. It will readily drive the backlight CCFLs found in 17" regular to 22" wide screen monitors. For a 5 minute test over voltage is not a problem - these are CCFLs, not incandescent lamps. The inverter design limits the current. And no, CCFLs are not polarized in the usual sense.

                        As far as the connector being the wrong shape - use jumper leads. Don't worry - the current is low enough it probably won't kill you. But be smart and change connections with the power off.

                        Other sites may try to get you to damage your equipment. On this site we act like adults.

                        Others have different attitudes, but for me, I get irritated when someone asks for advice, then complains that it won't work.

                        PlainBill
                        Last edited by PlainBill; 07-15-2009, 10:17 PM.
                        For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

                        Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

                        Comment

                        • EGuevarae
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 1336
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                          Originally posted by PlainBill
                          ... I get irritated when someone asks for advice, then complains that it won't work.

                          PlainBill
                          I didn't know you knew my wife .....
                          There are 10 kind of people in this world: those that understand binary, and those who don't.
                          • ASUS ROG Maximus IX Code
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                          • GeForce GT1050
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                          Comment

                          • Agent24
                            I see dead caps
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 4940
                            • New Zealand

                            #14
                            Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                            Originally posted by PlainBill
                            Wow!! Lots of objections. I'm beginning to wonder if you are an agent for a landfill.
                            Not objections, I just wanted more information as I was unsure. And as for the landfill - quite the opposite!

                            I don't want to do something stupid and explode the CCFL with overvoltage or something, which would be more likely to send the thing to the landfill.

                            Originally posted by PlainBill
                            The inverter supplied with a case mod kit is the cheapest possible design. The typical case mod kit has a 12" CCFL - about 300 mm. It will readily drive the backlight CCFLs found in 17" regular to 22" wide screen monitors. For a 5 minute test over voltage is not a problem - these are CCFLs, not incandescent lamps. The inverter design limits the current. And no, CCFLs are not polarized in the usual sense.

                            As far as the connector being the wrong shape - use jumper leads. Don't worry - the current is low enough it probably won't kill you. But be smart and change connections with the power off.

                            Other sites may try to get you to damage your equipment. On this site we act like adults.

                            Others have different attitudes, but for me, I get irritated when someone asks for advice, then complains that it won't work.

                            PlainBill
                            Again, I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just being cautious and also trying to be informative about my situation.

                            I may give it a try tomorrow and see what happens
                            "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                            -David VanHorn

                            Comment

                            • EGuevarae
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 1336
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                              Originally posted by Agent24
                              I don't want to do something stupid and explode the CCFL with overvoltage or something, which would be more likely to send the thing to the landfill.
                              Even if it blows, save it (or most of it). PSU/inverter, logic board, panel, even calbes from faulty CCFLs can be later reused either as direct replacements, "adaptations" or just experimentation.

                              See this, for example :



                              FrankenPSU, modified for testing purposes. It was a dead, from the dumpster find : recapped, eliminated unused cables, added a LED fan to be the load needed for it to run, atd that's it!




                              CaseKit modified to test CCFLs. The female connectors soldered in there where taken from a dead, almost melted 700P board - yes, same model. I've reused those connectors, bridge rectifier, fuses, resistors and more from that dead board. Second Pic is the inverter, now in it's case, used to test the lamps of a NEC1830.You can also see the same PSU used to test a VBoard from a unit with a dead PSU (Hanns-G HU171D)

                              All pictures were previously posted on this thread

                              See? Even if you burn it, it is reusable. And you will learn from it, either burnt or not (preferably not, right?)
                              There are 10 kind of people in this world: those that understand binary, and those who don't.
                              • ASUS ROG Maximus IX Code
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                              • GeForce GT1050
                                2 x Acer KA240H + 1 Vewsonic VP2130 21 (a cap replacement job )

                              Comment

                              • Agent24
                                I see dead caps
                                • Oct 2007
                                • 4940
                                • New Zealand

                                #16
                                Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                                Well I tried hooking up the lamps to the little inverter from the case mod light kit...

                                The results don't seem very promising (see attached photos - sorry the quality isn't great)

                                I'm assuming this means 3 of the 4 lamps are stuffed?

                                Then again, I didn't notice any flicker - OR strange noise... Perhaps voltage is too low?
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by Agent24; 07-16-2009, 07:45 PM.
                                "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                                -David VanHorn

                                Comment

                                • EGuevarae
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Nov 2008
                                  • 1336
                                  • USA

                                  #17
                                  Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                                  Originally posted by Agent24
                                  Well I tried hooking up the lamps to the little inverter from the case mod light kit...

                                  The results don't seem very promising (see attached photos - sorry the quality isn't great)

                                  I'm assuming this means 3 of the 4 lamps are stuffed?

                                  Then again, I didn't notice any flicker - OR strange noise... Perhaps voltage is too low?
                                  They should look like the 4th one.
                                  There are 10 kind of people in this world: those that understand binary, and those who don't.
                                  • ASUS ROG Maximus IX Code
                                  • Intel Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz
                                  • 16gb GSKILL TridentZ RGB DDR4-3200
                                  • 1 M2 SSD + 2 WD Blue 1TB (Mirrored)
                                  • Windows 10 Pro x64
                                  • GeForce GT1050
                                    2 x Acer KA240H + 1 Vewsonic VP2130 21 (a cap replacement job )

                                  Comment

                                  • Agent24
                                    I see dead caps
                                    • Oct 2007
                                    • 4940
                                    • New Zealand

                                    #18
                                    Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                                    Exactly. So the other 3 backlights have failed then?

                                    Does it seems suspicious that 3 out of 4 would go? Faulty inverter killed them?
                                    "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                                    -David VanHorn

                                    Comment

                                    • PlainBill
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Feb 2009
                                      • 7034
                                      • USA

                                      #19
                                      Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                                      Originally posted by Agent24
                                      Exactly. So the other 3 backlights have failed then?

                                      Does it seems suspicious that 3 out of 4 would go? Faulty inverter killed them?
                                      The normal aging process of a CCFL results in a reddish color at 'end of life'. I'm not sure what the effect of prolonged over voltage would be, but premature aging isn't an unreasonable guess.

                                      There are two problems with that theory, however. The usual inverter design runs multiple (typically two) CCFLs off each transformer secondary. It would be an unusual flaw that would result in three of four CCFLs seeing an excessive voltage. The other problem is most (but not all) inverter designs have fairly good protection circuitry for the CCFLs.

                                      The usual design monitors the voltage across the CCFLs and will shut down the inverter if the voltage goes too high. Most designs also monitor the current through the CCFLs and will shut down the inverter if the current through the CCFLs goes too high or stays too low. (Of course, it is possible to manufacture an inverter without any of those protections, instead simply relying on the initial design to limit voltage and current).

                                      I would say the most likely cause was a manufacturing error. In particular, a poor seal can cause leakage of the filling gas and premature failure. The most like cause of a poor seal would be a poor match between the thermal characteristics of the glass tube and the metal lead.

                                      More information than you would ever hope to know on the care and feeding of CCFLs can be found here. Also, I hope you are aware that the 50,000 hour operating life of a CCFL appears to be more fiction than fact.

                                      PlainBill
                                      Last edited by PlainBill; 07-16-2009, 09:36 PM.
                                      For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

                                      Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

                                      Comment

                                      • Agent24
                                        I see dead caps
                                        • Oct 2007
                                        • 4940
                                        • New Zealand

                                        #20
                                        Re: DSE XC5592 (Proview 700P)

                                        One thing strange I noticed with the testing, was that the monitor only seemed to light up from one end (the side the cables are on) Is this just because I was only running one lamp at a time?

                                        I didn't know the life of CCFLs were overrated but I do know that the backlight is one of the weak points of an LCD monitor

                                        Is there any easy way to find what size CCFLs I would need for replacement?
                                        "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                                        -David VanHorn

                                        Comment

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