Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

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  • neuralnet
    Member
    • Nov 2013
    • 14
    • UK

    #1

    Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

    Hi component peoples, I'm in need of some assistance fixing a Samsung Syncmaster 223BW. I've done the basic diagnostics and here's what we're dealing with;

    The power button works, but pressing it gets no results... no blue leds, no output to screen. The power board is outputting 14.5V (close to the specified 13.5V).

    The IP board (Model: Mendel_VE, Code: BN41-00885B) has handy contacts on the reverse for you test the voltages and I'm getting the 1.8V and 3.3V outputs but nothing on the 5V circuit.

    Click image for larger version

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    I've identified a cap with high ESR and very low resistance in the 5V circuit. A different cap (position C725) with the same markings gets very similar values to the other caps on the IP board.. This is where I get stuck. I've googled the markings on the bad cap "24347 100 16J" (position C435, top middle of pic, right of the ribbon connector) and can find nothing useful on the net.

    When I checked the forum for other posts on the same monitor, user Scenic has the same IP board as mine and although there's a link to the schematics in this thread, the schematics are incomplete, the image of the IP board in the PDF is not the same as mine and the components have different location identifiers. I can't read what's printed on Scenics caps either thanks to the low res images (front & back). I've looked hard for a full schematic diagram of the same revision of my IP board but no success..

    Does anyone know what rating "24347 100 16J" is? I'm used to being able to read off the old capacitor so I know what to use as a replacement.. I don't often have to replace SMT caps. How can I find out what cap I need to replace C435 with? Thanks!
  • budm
    Badcaps Legend
    • Feb 2010
    • 40746
    • USA

    #2
    Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

    That is the switched 5V for feeding the T-CON board on the LCD panel assembly, it is switched through the MOSFET IC401. That main board will send out BL_ON signal and Dim signal to turn on the inverter circuits, it also sends out signal to supply the voltage to the T-CON board. This will happen when the monitor detects the video signal from running PC, when you first turn on the monitor, those signals will be present for 3~5 seconds, then they will go away if the video signal is not detected, the monitor will go into standby mode.
    So check and see if you do have 5V on at least one pin of the MOSFET or not, you also need to get the pin out of the MOSFET to check out the Gate voltage to see if it is present or not, this Gate voltage should change state when the monitor is power on /off (or when video signal is present and not present).
    That cap is 100uf 16vdc.
    Never stop learning
    Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

    Inverter testing using old CFL:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

    Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
    http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

    TV Factory reset codes listing:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

    Comment

    • neuralnet
      Member
      • Nov 2013
      • 14
      • UK

      #3
      Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

      Thanks for the reply Budm. Are all the small caps rated the same then? They all have 100 16J but different preceding numbers.

      I've not replaced the cap yet but I've checked the voltages on IC401. On one leg I'm getting a steady 5.21v and 4.74v on the opposite leg. I'm not detecting voltages on any of the other legs when the power button on the front panel is pushed.. although holding 2 probes and pushing the button at the same time is kinda tricky I will double check to make sure when I have another pair of hands to assist me.. I have also tested for voltages with a VGA cable connected to a running computer & am only showing the same 5.21v and 4.74v.

      IC401 has '38881' stamped on top, how can I find the pinouts for this? I thought MOSFETs had 3 legs, but this has 6.

      Should I replace the cap before going further ? Where to next Budm ?

      Comment

      • budm
        Badcaps Legend
        • Feb 2010
        • 40746
        • USA

        #4
        Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

        Take the resistance reading on the Two legs of that 100/16j cap (no power to the unit).
        As you can see, the output pin of the MOSFET has the White triangle pointer next to the pin. No luck finding the info for the MOSFET (it may be Dual-MOSFET) yet.
        One thing is that the In that shows 4.74V (this in is more likely to be the Gate pin) should change state when the monitor is turn and turn off.
        Never stop learning
        Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

        Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

        Inverter testing using old CFL:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

        Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
        http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

        TV Factory reset codes listing:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

        Comment

        • neuralnet
          Member
          • Nov 2013
          • 14
          • UK

          #5
          Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

          I get nothing registered on that cap C435 (0 ohms). The others register a solid 105 - 125 ohms. The cap directly below C435 (i.e. C629) briefly shows 150 ohms and then falls to 0. I will test the gate pin when my woman comes home! cheers.

          Comment

          • budm
            Badcaps Legend
            • Feb 2010
            • 40746
            • USA

            #6
            Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

            You mean it show 0 Ohm that Cap? If that is the case, the load is shorted (You can remove that cable from that connector to see if the resistance will still show 0 Ohm), or shorted out MLCC (Multi Layer Ceramic Capacitor, C436) which is connected in parallel with the 100/ 16V cap.
            As you can see, there will always be MLCC in parallel with the Electrolytic cap, the MLCC is usually around 0.1uF. Failure mode of MLCC is shorts.
            Last edited by budm; 11-07-2013, 11:01 AM.
            Never stop learning
            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

            Inverter testing using old CFL:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

            TV Factory reset codes listing:
            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

            Comment

            • neuralnet
              Member
              • Nov 2013
              • 14
              • UK

              #7
              Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

              Very sorry Bud, my mistake.. I'm misreading the digital meter.. it's not 0, it's off the scale. If I was using my analogue one I'd have seen which way the needle went

              I'm actually getting 9900 ohms on C435, and the same on C436. Similarly, C629 initially reads 150 ohms and then goes up to 1190 ohms. I really appreciate your assistance. Thanks.

              Comment

              • budm
                Badcaps Legend
                • Feb 2010
                • 40746
                • USA

                #8
                Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                OK, the resistance is quite normal, so the voltage on post 4 needs verification to see if we do not have 5V output is due to bad MOSFET or due to no control signal at the Gate.
                Never stop learning
                Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                Inverter testing using old CFL:
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                TV Factory reset codes listing:
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                Comment

                • neuralnet
                  Member
                  • Nov 2013
                  • 14
                  • UK

                  #9
                  Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                  Helping hands have arrived. I'm getting no fluctuation in the voltage on the pin we think is the gate when pressing the power button (i.e. a steady 4.7v), or when switching on a PC connected to the VGA port. The pin registering 5.2V doesn't fluctuate either. I get no voltages on any other pins when pressing the button or switching on the PC either.
                  Last edited by neuralnet; 11-07-2013, 01:20 PM.

                  Comment

                  • budm
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 40746
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                    Too bad, the service manual does not have the same logic board as yours. I will look further.
                    Never stop learning
                    Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                    Inverter testing using old CFL:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                    Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                    http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                    TV Factory reset codes listing:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                    Comment

                    • neuralnet
                      Member
                      • Nov 2013
                      • 14
                      • UK

                      #11
                      Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                      thanks bud

                      Comment

                      • budm
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 40746
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                        At this point, you can try using 100 Ohm 1/4 w resistor on that pin with 4.7V and Ground to see if you do get 5V output.
                        I have a feeling you have have corrupt EEPROM or something bad on this logic (scaler) board.
                        Never stop learning
                        Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                        Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                        Inverter testing using old CFL:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                        Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                        http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                        TV Factory reset codes listing:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                        Comment

                        • neuralnet
                          Member
                          • Nov 2013
                          • 14
                          • UK

                          #13
                          Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                          Sorry Bud, I've been away... When I touch the grounded 100 Ohm resistor to the pin with 4.7v all the other pins on the MOSFET show 5.2V as long as it's connected, and then the voltage slopes back to 0V (i.e. around 4-5 s) when it's removed.

                          Comment

                          • budm
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 40746
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                            That means the MOSFET is switching on OK, so the logic signal from the controller is not being sent to turn on the MOSFET.
                            Never stop learning
                            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                            Inverter testing using old CFL:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                            TV Factory reset codes listing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                            Comment

                            • Davi.p
                              Hobbist
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 4261
                              • Italy - Milan

                              #15
                              Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                              Hi, can you tell me a list of the markings on all 8 pin ICs (sop8)?

                              Comment

                              • neuralnet
                                Member
                                • Nov 2013
                                • 14
                                • UK

                                #16
                                Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                                Sure, From left to right they are as follows;
                                IC202 = A21SC J803
                                IC603 = A393F 805
                                IC203 = A81SC Q802 (or 0802 is hard to tell)
                                IC201 = MX 12G 25L 1005MC

                                Comment

                                • Davi.p
                                  Hobbist
                                  • Sep 2009
                                  • 4261
                                  • Italy - Milan

                                  #17
                                  Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                                  It's difficult to find datasheets...

                                  Comment

                                  • neuralnet
                                    Member
                                    • Nov 2013
                                    • 14
                                    • UK

                                    #18
                                    Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                                    Yes, I had that problem too... and the version of the logic board they use in the official manual is not the same as the one in this monitor. I think BudM is right. it's a matter of replacing the logic board or binning the screen sadly.

                                    Comment

                                    • Davi.p
                                      Hobbist
                                      • Sep 2009
                                      • 4261
                                      • Italy - Milan

                                      #19
                                      Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                                      Let's imagine for some minutes that the words "programmed obsolescence" has any sense, if you find the points where dc-dc ps convertion has the output and you watch for continuity with pins on that sop8 chips, we can find the vcc pins of them, now i've read some few things about resetting a serial eprom, is by shortcircuiting the pins rx-tx when powering up if i remeber, on some models, lost for lost we can maybe find that resetting that with a certain flag set by a certain obscure routine... then you have to make many shorts between pins, usually those 2 are near.. to be safe disconnect lvds flat, shorting other pins than vcc is not risky, bye.
                                      Last edited by Davi.p; 12-14-2013, 12:44 PM.

                                      Comment

                                      • selldoor
                                        Slow Learner
                                        • Dec 2010
                                        • 7870

                                        #20
                                        Re: Samsung Syncmaster 223BW - blank screen..

                                        Originally posted by Davi.p
                                        It's difficult to find datasheets...

                                        Perhaps 10 minutes is not enough time to look?
                                        I believe
                                        A21SC is an eeprom 24c02
                                        A81SC is an eeprom 24c08
                                        MX 12G 25L 1005MC is a CMOS Serial Flash MX25L1005MC-12G
                                        A393F 805 is a KIA393P/F

                                        Datasheets are available for all?
                                        Please upload pictures using attachment function when ask for help on the repair
                                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39740

                                        Comment

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