Samsung 2232GW

[TAdams]

Recently my monitor became flickering coming out of standby. I do not often shut off my computer (including monitor) but did so a few times. The problem showed up during Bios/Post screen all the way to Windows Login. Obviously not a driver issue, to make a long story shorter. Having dual monitors, flickering and one not (reversed connections at GFX card same monitor flickered). Monitor also exhibits flicker when not plugged into any GFX card when powered on.

So I took it apart and have located some bad caps (surprise ), some bulging, and some leaking. Attached is a photo of the power board (front and back) as well as the Capacitors I would like to replace (whether they look bad or not). I would appreciate any advice on whether I should replace other parts that I have not listed. Thank you!

[pamr4]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

Replace bulging/leaking caps 330/25 with 330/35 or with 470/35 and 820/25 with 820/35 or 1000/35.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

There is no benefit to raising the voltage or the uF.

There might be [and probably is] some benefit in using caps with lower ESR and/or higher Ripple ratings than original.

Using caps of higher voltage or uF is an el'cheapo way to get lower ESR - BUT!
You still have to use caps where those values have lower ESR. [Most won't.]
Looking just at uF and volts is FAR from being enough information to choose new caps.

Often replacing the caps is all that's need, but not always.
You will have to replace the caps before you can investigate further so it works well enough to determine if there's some other problem.

Step #1 - ID old caps and look up their ESR and Ripple specs.
- What brand, series, and diameter are they?
.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

Attached is a photo of the power board (front and back) as well as the Capacitors I would like to replace (whether they look bad or not).

1) Wow, I have seen a lot of photos over the last year, but this is easily one of the best focused and sharpest picture I think I have seen.

2) Capacitors die from age, heat, and shoddy build quality. Capacitors DO NOT have to be visibly bloated in order to bad. They can be out of tolerance uF (a 1000uF measures 20uF) and/or have high ESR (ohm). A multimeter will be insufficient to test for ESR. For that you need an ESR tester which costs between $50 and $300.

Most members here will recommend that you replace ALL capacitors with reputable brands from reputable sellers. Brands like Rubycon, Panasonic, and United Chemicon are suggested. A list of recommended caps can be found at

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2280

3) Capxon doesn't have the greatest reputation here and with a 50% cap failure (4 obvious bloated/8 total - not counting the big one), it is wise to replace them all. The biggest cap rarely, but not never, fails.

4) Follow PCBONEZ's post and list the info (particularly the series which is usually a 2 letter code found the cap's sleeve) and he can tell you all about ripple, ESR, etc.

Again, excellent photos. I will now be using your pic for a "reference" for others to see.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

1) Wow, I have seen a lot of photos over the last year, but this is easily one of the best focused and sharpest picture I think I have seen.

AGREE!
What are you using for a camera TAdams??

[retiredcaps]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

I do not often shut off my computer (including monitor) but did so a few times.

A few of other thoughts regarding the flicker and not powering off.

1) With the bloated caps, it is likely the inverter section is getting unstable power which is likely to cause the flickering.

2) The board is dated 2007 April 18. So this monitor is 4 years old. I seem to recall that ccfls have a lifespan of generally 40K to 60K. If you have the "default" settings, your brightness is likely set to 90 and contrast to 50.

3) After you replace the caps and if the flickering is gone, the life of the ccfls may be reaching their end of life. If I'm interpreting your "not shut off" comment as running your system 24x7, then

365 days x 4 years x 24 hours => 35,040 hours.

So you may, after recapping, be replacing the ccfls in another 1 to 3 years depending on the lifespan of the original ccfls.

4) Also see this post where PCBONEZ talks about ESR, ripple, lifetime, temperature, etc

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...30&postcount=7

Note the "At 55C - 32,000hr"

5) Some monitors have a "service menu" where you can get the number of hours that the monitor has been in use.

I recapped an Acer 17xx that I got for free and it was on 30K hours (with 10K backlight hours) and the Samxon GF cap was bloated.

6) I connect my PC, monitor, etc to a power bar and turn everything off individually and then turn off the power at the power bar.

[Scenic]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

AGREE!
What are you using for a camera TAdams??

the EXIF info of those pics says

Filename - DSC_6566_edit.jpg
Make - NIKON CORPORATION
Model - NIKON D3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_D3

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

How do you read EXIF info?

[Rtech]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

There is no benefit to raising the voltage or the uF.

There might be [and probably is] some benefit in using caps with lower ESR and/or higher Ripple ratings than original.

Using caps of higher voltage or uF is an el'cheapo way to get lower ESR - BUT!
You still have to use caps where those values have lower ESR. [Most won't.]
Looking just at uF and volts is FAR from being enough information to choose new caps.

Often replacing the caps is all that's need, but not always.
You will have to replace the caps before you can investigate further so it works well enough to determine if there's some other problem.
Step #1 - ID old caps and look up their ESR and Ripple specs.
- What brand, series, and diameter are they?
.

I agree, that there is probably some benefit, in using caps with lower esr and higher ripple rating,however if the voltage rating is increased eg 16v to 25v etc but not a fantastic amount, then would it not be logical to assume that the replacement would be slightly larger physically,and therefore take longer to dry out and fail ???

[sahistaja]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

How do you read EXIF info?

You could use IrfanView, whitch is an excellent image viewer in Windows . With extra plugins (a downloadable pack from developers homepage), you could open a picture and press I and then E to get the EXIF information. Cheers!

[Scenic]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

i'm using irfanview as an image viewer. in its toolbar there's a circled "i" for picture informations. in there, there's a button to show the EXIF info if it's embedded in the picture.

most image viewers / editors should have an option for that.

http://bambooz.pytalhost.net/badcaps/irfanview_exif.jpg

[PlainBill]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

I agree, that there is probably some benefit, in using caps with lower esr and higher ripple rating,however if the voltage rating is increased eg 16v to 25v etc but not a fantastic amount, then would it not be logical to assume that the replacement would be slightly larger physically,and therefore take longer to dry out and fail ???

Yes, it is logical, if the replacements were Capxon. Again, the problem was not that the caps were rated too low in voltage, or that the ESR was too high initially. The problem was the caps were poorly designed and did not maintain the low ESR as they aged.

By replacing with the same quality and voltage, the monitor would be expected to last another 3-4 years. By paying a few pennies more for higher voltage caps of the original quality you might get an additional 4-5 years. By paying a few dimes more for good quality caps with the same voltage rating you can get many more years. AND you won't run into issues that the replacements won't fit into the available space. If I recall correctly, this monitor presents a problem with the height available.

PlainBill

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

I agree, that there is probably some benefit, in using caps with lower esr and higher ripple rating,however if the voltage rating is increased eg 16v to 25v etc but not a fantastic amount, then would it not be logical to assume that the replacement would be slightly larger physically,and therefore take longer to dry out and fail ???

No.
It is NOT logical to assume that when you change from one series to another.

1500uF 16v Rubycon MBZ [10x20mm] ,, Ripple= 2550 ,,ESR= .013
1500uF 25v Panasonic FC [12.5x25mm] ,, Ripple= 1945 ,,ESR= .030

Now, if both caps are in the same series [or exactly the same grade] what you are thinking would be true.

If you haven't looked up what the old caps are then you have no idea what grades they are compatible to and without that information changing the voltage [or even the size of the can] doesn't insure a single thing.

.
All of that is why I start so many explanations with: "Within a series" .......
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

i'm using irfanview as an image viewer. in its toolbar there's a circled "i" for picture informations. in there, there's a button to show the EXIF info if it's embedded in the picture.

most image viewers / editors should have an option for that.

http://bambooz.pytalhost.net/badcaps/irfanview_exif.jpg

Thank you sir!

[Rtech]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

From PCBPNEZ.......'Now, if both caps are in the same series [or exactly the same grade] what you are thinking would be true'

Which is exactly what I meant,sorry if my original question was somewhat confusing.

[TAdams]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

Step #1 - ID old caps and look up their ESR and Ripple specs.
- What brand, series, and diameter are they?
.

Made corrections on Capacitors (fresh eyes this morning!) and updated initial "Samsung 2232GW_Capacitors.txt" text file with Mfg. Series as well as Dimensions. Great information!

1) Wow, I have seen a lot of photos over the last year, but this is easily one of the best focused and sharpest picture I think I have seen.

2) Capacitors die from age, heat, and shoddy build quality. Capacitors DO NOT have to be visibly bloated in order to bad. They can be out of tolerance uF (a 1000uF measures 20uF) and/or have high ESR (ohm). A multimeter will be insufficient to test for ESR. For that you need an ESR tester which costs between $50 and $300.

Most members here will recommend that you replace ALL capacitors with reputable brands from reputable sellers. Brands like Rubycon, Panasonic, and United Chemicon are suggested. A list of recommended caps can be found at

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2280

3) Capxon doesn't have the greatest reputation here and with a 50% cap failure (4 obvious bloated/8 total - not counting the big one), it is wise to replace them all. The biggest cap rarely, but not never, fails.

4) Follow PCBONEZ's post and list the info (particularly the series which is usually a 2 letter code found the cap's sleeve) and he can tell you all about ripple, ESR, etc.

Again, excellent photos. I will now be using your pic for a "reference" for others to see.

Thank you, I will let the kids now, they helped hold the chair still (that I was standing on) while I snapped away One of my other hobbies is photography, I did not do too much to prep for the photo. Small Aperture (increases apparent depth of field)+indirect/diffused flash (bounce flash removes harsh lighting glare)+some editing and resizing. The back of the PCB did not turn out so well.
I do not have a ESR tester, I have many tools here but not that one! I would possibly pick one up if I saw one for $50.00 but at $300.00 it would have to start earning its keep. lol


I had been inclined to replace all the ones I listed since I am already mucking around inside my poor display. I was unsure of the 100 uF, 2.2 uF, as well as the small (film?) capacitors that I have not listed. I like the old saying, "If you don't have time to do it right the first time, where do you find time to do it twice?".

Thank you for the information!

A few of other thoughts regarding the flicker and not powering off.

1) With the bloated caps, it is likely the inverter section is getting unstable power which is likely to cause the flickering.

2) The board is dated 2007 April 18. So this monitor is 4 years old. I seem to recall that ccfls have a lifespan of generally 40K to 60K. If you have the "default" settings, your brightness is likely set to 90 and contrast to 50.

3) After you replace the caps and if the flickering is gone, the life of the ccfls may be reaching their end of life. If I'm interpreting your "not shut off" comment as running your system 24x7, then

365 days x 4 years x 24 hours => 35,040 hours.

So you may, after recapping, be replacing the ccfls in another 1 to 3 years depending on the lifespan of the original ccfls.

4) Also see this post where PCBONEZ talks about ESR, ripple, lifetime, temperature, etc

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...30&postcount=7

Note the "At 55C - 32,000hr"

5) Some monitors have a "service menu" where you can get the number of hours that the monitor has been in use.

I recapped an Acer 17xx that I got for free and it was on 30K hours (with 10K backlight hours) and the Samxon GF cap was bloated.

6) I connect my PC, monitor, etc to a power bar and turn everything off individually and then turn off the power at the power bar.

Very good information! I should have checked the service menu before tearing it apart. And just for clarification I leave my computer on nearly 24/7 but the monitors/printers/etc. I shut off manually when I am not using them. Power saving (power off display) generally at 10 minutes and little/no screensaver.

the EXIF info of those pics says


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_D3

Bingo! Also there are a few web browser plugins that can read EXIF data by right clicking an image on a website or hovering over it. I generally prefer KUSO EXIF viewer for a browser plug-in.

Thank you all for the information you have provided, I really appreciate it! If I can fix this monitor I think I will have to pop open my Samsung 205BW to inspect it as well. While I hate to fix something that is not broken, I would also hate to see bad components due damage to other more expensive ones.

Best regards,
Tom

(Edit) Attached "Samsung 2232GW_Capacitors.txt" revision to this post, unable to edit OP.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

I do not have a ESR tester, I have many tools here but not that one! I would possibly pick one up if I saw one for $50.00 but at $300.00 it would have to start earning its keep. lol

The cost of 8 caps from digikey.com, mouser, etc will likely be less than $10 + $2.75 for shipping. Unless you are doing a lot of monitor repairs, an ESR meter is an expensive tool.

[TAdams]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

Looking for replacements, so far here is what I have come up with:


1 x Panasonic TS-UP 2.2 uF 50V http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...EU-FC1H2R2H-ND

1 x Panasonic FC 100 uF 450V http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...&name=P7427-ND

5 x Panasonic FM 820 uF 25V http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P12391-ND

1 x Panasonic FR 330 uF 25V http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P14415-ND

1 x Panasonic FC 2.2 uF 50V http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...EU-FC1H2R2H-ND

For some of these there were more desirable components, with longer life, but they were either out of stock or had a .min order quantity (far) exceeding the numbers I am looking for. Any changes and or recommendations?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

No, don't need to worry about film caps.
Any cap can fail but it's cheap lytics that cause 99+% of the caps problems

Please refer to the data sheets so you understand what is going on. [Will help you in the future.]
Should note here that crap brand data sheets can be erratic an inconsistant so sometimes you have to funge factor and guestimate [ball park] what the spec values for the specific one you need are.
Some crap brands don't even publish data sheets in which case you should ask someone that works with that kind of circuit all the time.
-
For Ripple you want the same or more.
For ESR you want the same or less.

C105 Samyoung NFC 100 uF 450V
This is a junk brand but it's the AC input cap. Has 'different job' than the other Lytics.
They [AC input caps] rarely fail and it's not bloated so no reason to suspect it at this point.
Some people like to replace them anyway so here's where the specs are:
http://www.samyoung.co.kr/eng/product/product_info.asp
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...b68155e348.pdf
Keep in mind this kind of cap has Ripple stated at 120Hz which 'doesn't cross' with the specs used for 'normal' caps.
The standard used for 'normal' caps [typical ones -we- see] is Ripple [and ESR] at 100kHz.
Don't worry about ESR on this one, it is a GP cap [General Purpose], focus on the Ripple rating which is 602 mA..

All the Capxons listed should go.
[Some would leave the 2.2uF but the cost of a few is so slight and much less than shipping should you end up having to place another order just for them.]
-
http://www.capxongroup.com/en/prod_all_cat_full.aspx



C107 . Capxon . KM 47 uF 50V 6mm
This is a GP cap. [General Purpose] - We know this because ESR is not even in data sheet.
Most techs [including me] recommend using at least 'entry level' Low ESR caps for these.
........ Just make sure the Ripple is the same or more...
Something along the lines of Chemicon LXY, LXZ - Panasonic FC - Nichicon PW
There are many options in that range. Those mentioned are common and easy to find.

On to the Low ESR Caps.
----- Look in the data sheet so you know where got these numbers.

C111 . Capxon . GL 820 uF 25V 10mm ... Ripple= 1460 mA, ESR= .043 ohms
C113 . Capxon . GL 330 uF 25V 10mm ... Ripple= 720 mA, ESR= .082 ohms
C118 . Capxon . GL 2.2 uF 50V 5mm ... Ripple= 33 mA, ESR= 2.60 ohms
- Remember..
For Ripple you want the same or more.
For ESR you want the same or less.

Note: They use Impedence (Z) in some data sheets and ESR in others.
That is because at roughly 100kHz the Capacitive Reactance and Inductive Reactance cancel each other out leaving ESR as the only thing contributing to Z.
IOW: At roughly 100kHz ,,, Z = ESR. [Or at least so darned close we just say it is.]
That is one of the reasons they use 100kHz as the standard.
.

[TAdams]

Re: Samsung 2232GW

Ok, there is more to it than just uF and volts I believe with your help, I have determined that the parts I selected (more like stumbled upon) in the earlier post are good replacements, however.. Now I know why!

Spreadsheet attached, I thought that .xls were not allowed, and lets face it... The text file is way more difficult to maintain rows and columns. If everything looks good I will proceed with purchase. Thank you so much PCBONEZ, and everyone else also! I really appreciate all the help.

Best regards,
Tom