lightning hit PC now dead

[westom]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

What does that have to do with what gets damaged inside a PC?

What gets damaged inside a PC (if from lightning) is usually a small part of the machine. To learn what is and is not damaged means taking those voltage measurements. As you noted, the PSU is not the only incoming path for damage. In fact it is rarely the path for damage. Sometimes the path of damage is made available by a protector adjacent to the computer. But to find the little bit that is damaged always required hard facts - especially numbers.

All that part swapping provides no useful facts. All that nonsense about massive damage from lightning is a first indication of others who did design or fixed hardware and do not understand how electronics work. First step to learning basics starts with those requested voltages.

Historically, most computer users will entertain their fears and believe myths about lightning rather than learn. Therefore do nothing; trash the machine. This machine is a perfect opportunity to learn even if it is not economically repairable.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

What gets damaged inside a PC (if from lightning) is usually a small part of the machine. To learn what is and is not damaged means taking those voltage measurements. As you noted, the PSU is not the only incoming path for damage. In fact it is rarely the path for damage. Sometimes the path of damage is made available by a protector adjacent to the computer. But to find the little bit that is damaged always required hard facts - especially numbers.

All that part swapping provides no useful facts. All that nonsense about massive damage from lightning is a first indication of others who did design or fixed hardware and do not understand how electronics work. First step to learning basics starts with those requested voltages.

Historically, most computer users will entertain their fears and believe myths about lightning rather than learn. Therefore do nothing; trash the machine. This machine is a perfect opportunity to learn even if it is not economically repairable.

No, usually there is damage in all the paths.

I've been in electronics since 1981 and in AZ we actually have what amounts to a lightening season for 3 months a year.

.

[PlainBill]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

No, usually there is damage in all the paths.

I've been in electronics since 1981 and in AZ we actually have what amounts to a lightening season for 3 months a year.

.

Not to denigrate Arizona's Monsoon season, but I spent 22 years in South Florida. Their 'lightning season' lasts all year.

This thread is pretty pointless. Anyone with any real experience with a lightning near-miss knows how much damage can be done and in some of the strangest places.

Example 1. An 80's Sylvania color TV failed in a thunderstorm (lightning storm). The rectifier diodes were shorted, and of course the fuse blown. Replace those and the TV would power up, we had raster but no picture, and no sound. Trace through, there is signal out of the tuner, but nothing out of the video chip. Then I realized the chip handling signals from the remote was also not working. So much for the 'one point of damage' theory.

Example 2. Lightning hit very close to our house - less than 1/4 mile, judging by the lack of delay between bolt and thunder. This neighborhood had all utilities underground. Two telephones were destroyed. So much for the Telco provided surge protection. Two TVs also were damaged. The Funai in the bedroom wouldn't turn on. A brief check showed the 'jungle' IC was toast. The RCA in the living room was also damaged. The IC handling the OSD channel and clock information was fried. No other damage.

Example 3. This wasn't a lightning hit, but one day my son's computer didn't turn on. A quick check with the power supply tester - the power supply is bad. He replaces it, when the new supply is turned on one of the transistors in the motherboard blows it's top. Real easy to identify the bad part, getting a replacement might be difficult, but how do you go about replacing one TO-220 SMD package in a group of 4 with only a 60 watt soldering iron? And how much time is a socket 478 motherboard worth?

PlainBill

[PCBONEZ]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

Yup, I lived in Orlando for a while for a school but I didn't see a whole year.
- They got COOL lightning there!

[EGuevarae]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

This thread is pretty pointless. Anyone with any real experience with a lightning near-miss knows how much damage can be done and in some of the strangest places.
....
PlainBill

I agree.
And about the numbers,the Franklin Bio and the Telco thing..... I guess that is out of topic....I mean,is on topic (SURGES,AC,etc) but has deviated a LOT from OP's question...

[EGuevarae]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

...Why have we so routinely restored so many lightning damaged electronics with but a few semiconductor replacements? Only a small minority actually knows this stuff.

Go ahead and change a south bridge from a damaged PC that was off/on standby and got damaged in a lighting-related problem ...

[westom]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

A 'woe is me so give up' attitude is rampant. The OP should know which part is damaged before scrapping the computer. Often, that is done in minutes with only a meter, diagnostics, and experience. Longer when one has never learned how to do this stuff. A majority have expressed a "stay ignorant" attitude. Historically, a response is to agree with less trained and more numerous technicians. A 'do nothing' attitude.

Surge damage is often a single path through electronics. Surge damage is directly traceable to human failure. Routine is to have direct lightning strikes and no damage. Some here had damage. Then accepted failure as normal. Are posting a 'do nothing and do not learn' attitude. And did not correct the human mistake that permitted surge damage.

Orlando FL was suffering lightning damage to their 911 System. Since direct lightning strikes means humans must fix their mistakes, then Orlando did just that. Fixed the only reason for damage. Upgraded building earth ground:
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm

Fix computers first to learn. Sometimes the part is not replaceable. But in every case, knowledge is obtained. Was the computer lightning damaged? What was the path of that unacceptable and avoidable surge? In Orlando, they discovered why damage to electronics happened. Fixed electronics. And then fixed the reason for that damage - defective earth grounds. A human mistake.

Historically most computer users will entertain their fears. Believe myths about lightning rather than learn. Therefore do nothing; trash the machine. Listen to a majority of naysayers who also accept lightning damage as normal. One can entertain their fears. Or one can learn from that damage. Direct lightning strikes do not cause damage when a homeowner is informed. Historically, many techs (due to insufficient engineering knowledge) will entertain their fears. Believe and promote myths about lightning.

[Wizard]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

What these techs are trying to drive the point home is including me cannot trust a unit that was stuck by lightning. Especially on one that you have to warranty and on other items that is too critical to rely upon.

Cheers, Wizard

[EGuevarae]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

... Fix computers first to learn. Sometimes the part is not replaceable. But in every case, knowledge is obtained. ...

Sorry if I had the idea that after 18 years of experience repairing computers,I could open my big mouth.

And I don't think OP has the resources the 911 center has ....

What is the point? Exactly as Wizard says : unreliable systems.

While I praise your hunger for knowledge (and I really do),I think (as I said before) that you are straying from the main idea here...and honestly this is starting to look more like a Philosophical Lecture about the Quest for Knowledge than a proposed solution or the base to recommend anything (even a "trash it" final decision). You had not even mentioned a possible solution, except one fact : a component might be damaged. That is obvious, it might be only a fuse,only a south bridge, only the complete board,only 1 component inside the processor, or all at once. The OP is looking for a possible solution to an existing problem, not a lecture about the Big Bang theory ...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

An Engineer with no practical real world experience in their field would be best described as a Fantasy writer.

A trainer that isn't clueless doesn't give trainees problems that aren't likely to have a solution. There is zero learning potential in that approach.

A responsible tech doesn't put questionable equipment back into service in a production environment.

.

[westom]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

What these techs are trying to drive the point home is including me cannot trust a unit that was stuck by lightning.

Why surge damaged equipment routinely performs without damage. The failed parts are dots. Connect the dots. In lightning, what was the path from clouds, through each dot, to earth ground. That is where overstessed components might be damaged.

Take something so simple such as a 56K modem. The dot is a PNP transistor. That is typically the only part damaged in a direct lightning strike. Surge path includes current from relay coil to relay wiper. No overstress there. Once a surge path is established, then overstressed parts are identified and replaced.

Meanwhile naysaying tells to the OP to not learn. Do not even try.

That computer is an ideal learning platform. To identify the one part that is damaged. And then know what other parts might be overstressed - are not reliable as spare parts. To have a list of what components are - without doubt - unharmed. In most lightning damaged computers, the computer never failed again. In many cases, the rumored lighting damage did not exist. In many cases, the real failure was a manufacturing defect. Poorly educated techs blamed lightning because the problem remained elusive. Because they never learned basic diagnostic procedures.

18 years experience is not even half of my experience. Yes, I was designing and fixing computers long before the PC even existed. And teaching techs why shotgunning so often results in confusion. Why electronics fail again if using shotgunning.

Most lightning damage is traceable to bad grounds. Any homeowner can fix them. But techs who never learned basic diagnostics procedures will even post cheap shots rather than learn how simple the solution is and why direct lightning strikes need not damage any computer. Fixing the computer properly also means learning why that damage occured - and is easily averted.

[Per Hansson]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

westom; I love your grammar
Aaaanyway, here are my 0.02SEK on the matter
Lightning likes to find a way to ground, yes, but it is more complex than that

A company I maintain a wifi hotspot for was once hit by lightning in an oak tree close to where they had an office
Some printers died, some other stuff was ok, difficult to find the trace the lightning strike took tho, as you describe one should, since it actually hit a tree nearby and then found whatever path into earth it could...
Stuff in houses 50 meters away was killed, insurance took care of it all
Other stuff in the same houses was fine...

Just a few weeks ago lightning struck a large Birch tree on his front lawn, this time only one single computer was killed
It was connected to an outlet with no grounding
And it was only the motherboard that was damaged...

Now this Birch was actually located right in the centre between most buildings, and not like last time at the outer edge of where he has his buildings, so how and what equipment lightning kills I think is too difficult to say

[PCBONEZ]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

This guy it thinking like the lightening itself is passing through the PC.
If that happened it would be a lump of molten metal.

Voltage that high even just passing through air has a huge EMF to the point there is an EMP associated with each strike.
A lightening rod isn't going to mitigate and EMP. It will just move it a little.
It is nearly always the voltages induced in -whatever- acts as an antenna by the EMP that damages equipment and NOT that the equipment was in the path to ground.

.

[EGuevarae]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

18 years experience is not even half of my experience. Yes, I was designing and fixing computers long before the PC even existed. And teaching techs why shotgunning so often results in confusion. Why electronics fail again if using shotgunning.

If you have that much of experience, you must agree that almost all documentation/reference material of the field is (or used to be) in English.
Being you that wise,It amazes me the poor level of grammar you have.My 9 years old boy writes like that....

Can you please just give us a little light from your more-than-40-years-of- experience-trained-superior-Sherlock-Holmesque mind and try to help the original poster? (<----- note the end of the question with one of those arcane symbols called "Question Marks"...very useful glyph...)
If he wants to know about the life an death of lightning storms or other climatological phenomenon,let him ask. He asked if someone had revived/reused a system damaged/unstable by that conditions, not for an essay titled " To fix,or not to Fix......"

Darn,I think I'm having one of those days .....

[westom]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

Lightning likes to find a way to ground, yes, but it is more complex than that

A cow some 20 feet from a tree dies when lightning strikes the tree. Naive assumptions claim EMF killed a cow. Cow was killed by a direct lightning strike - three miles down to the tree and four miles to earthborne charges. That being a path shorter than 5 miles across the sky. Also electrically shorter is up a cow's hind legs; down its fore legs. Current through the cow killed that cow.

Cow was killed by a direct lightning strike that took an electrically shorter path via the cow. Cow did not have a single point ground. So current passed through the cow destructively. EMF did not kill the cow as so many would have us believe.

Same applies to your locations. Repeatedly is the term single point ground. If single point ground is not implemented, current can pass through household appliances for the same reason a cow was killed when a tree was struck.

EMF does damage when hearsay replaces well understood electrical concepts. For example, if EMF is so destructive, then a nearby lightning strike means every car radio, cell phone, and wrist watch is destroyed. Why are none damaged? A long wire antenna may be many thousands of volts due to a nearby strike. So an NE-2 neon glow lamp is connected to that antenna lead. Those milliamps drop maybe 10,000 volts down to tens of volts. Energy content of nearby strikes (EMF) is that near zero.

Nearby strikes are routinely made irrelevant by circuits inside all electronics.

Damage is due to current from a direct strike. Analysis of failed electronics can define that incoming and outgoing surge path. Both must exist to have a surge current. Analysis (an autopsy) can identify a defect in the ground system. Help define why a building does not have single point earth ground system. Single point grounding is essential for surges incoming from the sky, from utility switching, and from earth. Essential so that a surge is not inside the building.

Surge protection means energy dissipates harmlessly outside a building. Always. Every protector is only as effective as its earth ground. And why a connection from protector to earth must be so short (ie 'less than 10 feet'). Low impedance - another critical factor that must exist in every protection system because energy must dissipate harmlessly in earth.

[westom]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

That is obvious, it might be only a fuse,only a south bridge, only the complete board,only 1 component inside the processor, or all at once.

Have you nine year old son edit your sentences for grammar, punctuation, and structure. So you live in a glass house?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

A cow some 20 feet from a tree dies when lightning strikes the tree. Naive assumptions claim EMF killed a cow. Cow was killed by a direct lightning strike - three miles down to the tree and four miles to earthborne charges. That being a path shorter than 5 miles across the sky. Also electrically shorter is up a cow's hind legs; down its fore legs. Current through the cow killed that cow.

Cow was killed by a direct lightning strike that took an electrically shorter path via the cow. Cow did not have a single point ground. So current passed through the cow destructively. EMF did not kill the cow as so many would have us believe.

Same applies to your locations. Repeatedly is the term single point ground. If single point ground is not implemented, current can pass through household appliances for the same reason a cow was killed when a tree was struck.

EMF does damage when hearsay replaces well understood electrical concepts. For example, if EMF is so destructive, then a nearby lightning strike means every car radio, cell phone, and wrist watch is destroyed. Why are none damaged? A long wire antenna may be many thousands of volts due to a nearby strike. So an NE-2 neon glow lamp is connected to that antenna lead. Those milliamps drop maybe 10,000 volts down to tens of volts. Energy content of nearby strikes (EMF) is that near zero.

Nearby strikes are routinely made irrelevant by circuits inside all electronics.

Damage is due to current from a direct strike. Analysis of failed electronics can define that incoming and outgoing surge path. Both must exist to have a surge current. Analysis (an autopsy) can identify a defect in the ground system. Help define why a building does not have single point earth ground system. Single point grounding is essential for surges incoming from the sky, from utility switching, and from earth. Essential so that a surge is not inside the building.

Surge protection means energy dissipates harmlessly outside a building. Always. Every protector is only as effective as its earth ground. And why a connection from protector to earth must be so short (ie 'less than 10 feet'). Low impedance - another critical factor that must exist in every protection system because energy must dissipate harmlessly in earth.

It is more complex than that.

[EGuevarae]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

Have you nine year old son edit your sentences for grammar, punctuation, and structure. So you live in a glass house?

The 9 years old kid says that you forgot the comma between "So" and "live".

Nice lecture about the cows. First Climatological Phenomenons and now Agricultural Hazards.... I'm pretty sure the OP is learning a bucket load of things from this thread. .....

[Bishop]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

I retired from the Telephone company after 33 years of chasing lightning strikes. The Telephone Interface Box outside has a lightning protector built in, but the protector is to save your house from lightning strikes. the fuses inside are to auto reset after grounding out so the high voltages will not enter your home.
BUT, It's there to protect your house, not your electrical devices. "SNEAK " Voltage is what we called the low voltage, high amp current strikes. Sneak voltage will sometimes pass right through the Telephone Company's protection.
40-50 years ago, the power poles at the street were independantly grounded, and if lightning struck the pole at your house the pole ground would take as much voltage as it could, but the rest would follow the power line to your house and usually start a fire on the side of your home. Your pole and your house would take all the hit and your house would burn to the ground and your neighbors TV or lights may not even blink.
Today, the power company bonds every pole to a ground at the pole, but the Cable TV companies and the telephone companies must bonds by law to the power company's ground.
In the past lightning may hit a phone line and the telco protector would drain it away, but with all the utilities bonded together, everybody gets a shock.
Every house for miles aound will get some of the lightning bolt, so no one house gets it all. Rarely today do you read of a house being destroyed by lightning, but every home for miles around as the voltage spread out and becomes "Sneak Voltage," will be affected. Hundreds of modems, or microwaves, TV and motherboards and the like be destroyed.
Unplugging is the only safe way to stop sneak voltage.

[EGuevarae]

Re: lightning hit PC now dead

I retired from the Telephone company after 33 years of chasing lightning strikes. The Telephone Interface Box outside has a lightning protector built in, but the protector is to save your house from lightning strikes. the fuses inside are to auto reset after grounding out so the high voltages will not enter your home.
BUT, It's there to protect your house, not your electrical devices. "SNEAK " Voltage is what we called the low voltage, high amp current strikes. Sneak voltage will sometimes pass right through the Telephone Company's protection.
40-50 years ago, the power poles at the street were independantly grounded, and if lightning struck the pole at your house the pole ground would take as much voltage as it could, but the rest would follow the power line to your house and usually start a fire on the side of your home. Your pole and your house would take all the hit and your house would burn to the ground and your neighbors TV or lights may not even blink.
Today, the power company bonds every pole to a ground at the pole, but the Cable TV companies and the telephone companies must bonds by law to the power company's ground.
In the past lightning may hit a phone line and the telco protector would drain it away, but with all the utilities bonded together, everybody gets a shock.
Every house for miles aound will get some of the lightning bolt, so no one house gets it all. Rarely today do you read of a house being destroyed by lightning, but every home for miles around as the voltage spread out and becomes "Sneak Voltage," will be affected. Hundreds of modems, or microwaves, TV and motherboards and the like be destroyed.
Unplugging is the only safe way to stop sneak voltage.

I just saw a PC that was involved in a lightning strike a few days ago in the Brawley (South California) area. A lightning hit on a field that is like 1000ft from the affected homes.The PC i checked was...how can i say it...FRIED? Motherboard,RAM,DVDRW,Modem,Video Card all have one or more chips fried.Even the CPU fan was fried. The Processor and the hard drive were not affected visibly and tested on another computer were fine....we just have to put them under stress to find out.Funny enough, the power supply works (i just tested it on another system.The affected system was not tried to be turned on...). House 2 units next to this, a 48" flat screen TV was fried. I have not seen it but owner says it smells like burned rubber (?).The house in the middle of this two was not affected at all. I will try to get some pictures from the affected PC. Diagnostic? Get a new system...take this as an opportunity to upgrade ....