Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

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  • Used_Cars
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2015
    • 102
    • USA

    #1

    Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

    I have a bunch of questions so this is going to be a meandering thread. So, I'll start with what I know.

    I have an older 18v DeWalt screwgun set that got rained on, so for Christmas my nice wife got me a 20v DeWalt Screwgun set. It's the differences in the two batteries (18v vs. 20v) that has provoked me to ask these questions.

    The first thing I noticed was that the 20v batteries were incredibly light and about half the size of the 18v batteries. While trying to troubleshoot & fix the 18v batteries, I took it apart and it's a bunch of c-cell sized batteries soldered to metal foil in some configuration of series/parallel, but they look like standard c-cell batteries in both size and weight.

    I don't know what's inside the 20v batteries, but they can't be c-cells (I don't think) because the size of the battery "case" is too small and it's WAY too light.

    So I want to know if there has been a technological improvement on batteries from 18v to 20 v. I see the words "Li-ION" and the little dab of research I've done seems to indicate that is the current state of battery technological development. I've been looking for a new word or phrase to describe the technical differences between the two. Sometimes I see the letters "XR" and wonder if that's some kind of an upgrade from basic-grade Li-ION, or if that's some kind of proprietary branding.

    The new 20v batteries seem to last as long as the 18v batteries did, at about half the weight and half the size, which implies to me they're a (roughly) 400% improvement. Seems like they should have their own, special and unique name. What's different between the two, and is the 20v tech at a plateau, or is there something even better coming on the horizon?

    All of this is aimed at exploring the possibility of taking advantage of the best battery technology available, for the purpose of adapting a TK102 GPS tracker for use with drones, hot air balloons and other uses. The batteries that come from the factory with the TK102 are pure trash and what I'd like to do is remanufacture these units in order to take advantage of their cheap price and the better batteries that are available, and then resell them as a unit.

    As an aside, the case of the TK102 is mostly air. What's in there is a small pc board with some components, and a battery. I've found a guy on Youtube that has a custom chip he installs to force the TK102 to turn on whenever power is applied, because the factory unit must be manually turned back on whenever power is interrupted, so if you bury it somewhere, say in the back of the vehicle (say, affixed to the "roof" of the trunk), if the power is interrupted you have to manually push the "on" button again.

    These things are quite cool, and my sense is that if a manufacturer (maybe me, someday) were to provide a simple and easy way for the non-tech savvy person to put them to use, the size of the current market might expand, thereby creating new opportunities.

    So I guess the general idea here is "Ways to Market Modified Variations on the TK102 GPS Tracker", but for this thread I want to explore finding ways to improve the device's "working time" by increasing the battery capacity.
    Last edited by Used_Cars; 02-28-2018, 11:57 PM.
  • budm
    Badcaps Legend
    • Feb 2010
    • 40746
    • USA

    #2
    Re: Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

    Your old 20 Battery pack is Nicad battery pack, its should say that on the battery pack and the charger that made for that battery pack too.
    http://batteryuniversity.com/
    Never stop learning
    Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

    Inverter testing using old CFL:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

    Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
    http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

    TV Factory reset codes listing:
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

    Comment

    • Used_Cars
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2015
      • 102
      • USA

      #3
      Re: Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

      Originally posted by budm
      Your old 20 Battery pack is Nicad battery pack, its should say that on the battery pack and the charger that made for that battery pack too.
      http://batteryuniversity.com/
      Is there a reason why the upgrade from Nicad to Li-ION maintained battery life and used a smaller, lighter battery? Meaning, couldn't DeWalt have made the batter the same size and given the Li-ION more working time? Is there some technological reason why the 20 volt (the newer one) doesn't have twice the operating time? Some limit, or other?

      FYI:
      18 volt = older, heavier, bigger
      20 volt = newer, lighter, smaller

      Both batteries last about a full work day of hard, repetitive use.

      Comment

      • RukyCon
        A Fake Rubycon
        • Jan 2017
        • 816
        • USA

        #4
        Re: Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

        Ni-Cd batteries output around 1.2v each. (sometimes you can get them to go up to 1.3v to 1.5v)
        Li-Ion batteries output around 3.7v to 4.2v each.
        Li-Ion batteries are also smaller, lighter and also have higher energy density than Ni-Cd.
        I'm not a expert, I'm just doing my best.

        Comment

        • eccerr0r
          Solder Sloth
          • Nov 2012
          • 8701
          • USA

          #5
          Re: Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

          Dewalt made the choice to make sure the tool lasts the whole day and no more: the problem they were trying to solve is not lasting more than one day.

          ... it was made to solve the person suffering fatigue carrying more battery than one needs to - to get the job done - assuming the battery can be charged when the worker is resting/sleeping.

          Comment

          • Curious.George
            Badcaps Legend
            • Nov 2011
            • 2305
            • Unknown

            #6
            Re: Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

            Originally posted by Used_Cars
            Is there a reason why the upgrade from Nicad to Li-ION maintained battery life and used a smaller, lighter battery?
            Batteries are defined by their chemistry. This sets the energy density, rechargeability, cell voltage (a "battery" consists of multiple "cells"), size, weight, etc.

            Meaning, couldn't DeWalt have made the batter the same size and given the Li-ION more working time? Is there some technological reason why the 20 volt (the newer one) doesn't have twice the operating time? Some limit, or other?
            They could have made the battery last a whole WEEK of 8 hour shifts. But, that would make it considerably heavier (if you want a tool to last a whole week on the jobsite, bring a genset -- or compressor -- to the jobsite and power the tools from that! )

            Most hand-tools are used either by "tradesmen" or "homeowners". Homeowners seldom use their tools for extended periods before calling it quits for the day (and putting the tool on the charger). Tradesmen will demand more use from the tool -- but, will typically be willing to carry a spare (charged) battery to the jobsite to get this extended use (one of the reasons for having common battery packs among a variety of power tools is so you can "share" the battery pack and its weight!)

            When designing ANY battery powered product, you first have to think of the intended use pattern. Will the device be typically "retired" after the end of a "shift"? day? week? How long will the battery on your laptop last? On your phone? In your electric drill? Flashlight?

            Comment

            • budm
              Badcaps Legend
              • Feb 2010
              • 40746
              • USA

              #7
              Re: Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

              DeWalt does make higher capacity batteries for your tool:
              https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-2...05-2/205510787

              https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-2...B203/204222436
              Never stop learning
              Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

              Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

              Inverter testing using old CFL:
              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

              Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
              http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

              TV Factory reset codes listing:
              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

              Comment

              • Used_Cars
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2015
                • 102
                • USA

                #8
                Re: Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

                Originally posted by budm
                DeWalt does make higher capacity batteries for your tool:
                Thanks but all of this is aimed at making a battery pack of the highest capacity batteries on the market, which I'm assuming is Li-ION and that there isn't something better/newer out there.

                I have fewer questions now because some of this is starting to make sense.

                Comment

                • budm
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 40746
                  • USA

                  #9
                  Re: Current State of Rechargeable Battery Technology

                  They are still developing newer batteries all the time, for example:
                  http://www.iflscience.com/technology...r-lithium-ion/

                  https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...ival-strategy/
                  Never stop learning
                  Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                  Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                  Inverter testing using old CFL:
                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                  Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                  http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                  TV Factory reset codes listing:
                  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                  Comment

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