Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

[stj]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

It'd be nice to be able to replace the switches / receptacles without having to flip the breaker.
Thanks!

i dont cut the power, i just use gloves and an insulated screwdriver - fuck it!

[televizora]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

i dont cut the power, i just use gloves and an insulated screwdriver - fuck it!

Nice. Do you know that you are absolutely, totally insane?

[stj]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

do you know that your whole house or street would be connected or cut live?

pro's just isolate themselves, we dont need to cut power to something we wont touch.

[dmill89]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Isn't that called back stabbing and isn't that a bad idea? I planned on just using the screw terminals and wrapping it around and tightening them down. I heard some bad stuff about backstabbing and believe it should be avoided, unless things have changed. From the sounds of it, things have changed a bit, but does it actually make a difference? Is it a good idea to backstab now? Thanks!

Are you saying it's okay to back-stab with the GFCI outlets?

It is ok if the "back stab" terminals use a clamp and screws to hold the wires in, as is common in GFCI and even higher-end standard outlets. The cheap spring loaded clamps that don't have much contact area to begin with and hold poorly on cheap outlets are what causes issues.

[delaware74b]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Spork - the clamps on the GFCI's and spec grade devices are not the same as back-stabbing on the cheap devices.

This is pig-tailing, although I don't use that brand of wire nut:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d313d72737.jpg

Live work? Sure I do it. With permission from the local power utility, my boss and I have permission to pull meters and reinstall for panel repairs and service replacement.

[redwire]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Spring-clamp connectors can be good quality, they're the only thing allowed on locomotives due to vibration and temperature swings. Europe loves them for DIN-rail panel stuff.

But on outlets they suck badly. I never use them because copper oxidizes with brass and crappola connection happens, with age and chinese drywall H2S gas.
I can take 10 seconds and tighten the screws. Really.

As far as live work goes, it's all fine until the day you disconnect a wire and it unexpectedly springs back and touches something grounded or the opposite phase. Poof! Had an arc happen doing that. You need eye/face protection!

[keeney123]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Isn't that called back stabbing and isn't that a bad idea? I planned on just using the screw terminals and wrapping it around and tightening them down. I heard some bad stuff about backstabbing and believe it should be avoided, unless things have changed. From the sounds of it, things have changed a bit, but does it actually make a difference? Is it a good idea to backstab now? Thanks!

I am trying to explain the new connector that the wire can be put in the back of. These are not spring loaded like the old connecters that were no good. The screw on the side of the connector is what causes the tightening down on the wire. It is much like how one puts a wire in a breaker terminal and tightens down on a screw. Look at the picture on the right hand side of redwire's post 46. The left one is the old connector. Noticed the screw is not tightened on the picture on the left.

[keeney123]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

i dont cut the power, i just use gloves and an insulated screwdriver - fuck it!

You can do this. One of my nephews works that way. I always like to turn it off if I can. My nephew says be does it because he is lazy.

[televizora]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

do you know that your whole house or street would be connected or cut live?

I know some very special mystique equipment that can help you to solve this problem.

And yes - you MUST cut the power. Because if insulated screwdriver works for 220Volts, this definitely doesn't work for 220KILO Volts.
One gipsy nearby confirmed this by making example of himself. Tried to cut and steal 50Kilovolt wires. Fried to the degree of charcoal.
Professionals always cut the power. And if they don't - they understand the risks. Are you prepared for these?

[joshnz]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

I know some very special mystique equipment that can help you to solve this problem.

And yes - you MUST cut the power. Because if insulated screwdriver works for 220Volts, this definitely doesn't work for 220KILO Volts.
One gipsy nearby confirmed this by making example of himself. Tried to cut and steal 50Kilovolt wires. Fried to the degree of charcoal.
Professionals always cut the power. And if they don't - they understand the risks. Are you prepared for these?

Meter installers love leaving the power on lol.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

do you know that your whole house or street would be connected or cut live?

pro's just isolate themselves, we dont need to cut power to something we wont touch.

Here, they don't hook up the lines to the house live. They call the electric company who kills the power and they won't turn it on until it's been inspected.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Spork - the clamps on the GFCI's and spec grade devices are not the same as back-stabbing on the cheap devices.

This is pig-tailing, although I don't use that brand of wire nut:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d313d72737.jpg

Live work? Sure I do it. With permission from the local power utility, my boss and I have permission to pull meters and reinstall for panel repairs and service replacement.

So what are the benefits from using the pigtails? I've ordered my GFCI outlet. When it comes, should I wire it up using pigtails like what's in the picture?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Spring-clamp connectors can be good quality, they're the only thing allowed on locomotives due to vibration and temperature swings. Europe loves them for DIN-rail panel stuff.

But on outlets they suck badly. I never use them because copper oxidizes with brass and crappola connection happens, with age and chinese drywall H2S gas.
I can take 10 seconds and tighten the screws. Really.

As far as live work goes, it's all fine until the day you disconnect a wire and it unexpectedly springs back and touches something grounded or the opposite phase. Poof! Had an arc happen doing that. You need eye/face protection!

My old apartment up in Deposit had fuses but the lower neighbor had access to the fuse box. With permission from the land lord, I replaced all the two prong receptacles with three. I did all of them live with no problems, until I got to the last one. The screw driver caught on the white wire while I was unscrewing the black. There were sparks and then no power. The downstairs lady was pissed. I told her the landlord said I could do it though and just replaced the screw. I'm glad I didn't get hurt.

[stj]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

just one more joint to fail,

[stj]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

The screw driver caught on the white wire while I was unscrewing the black.

that's why electrician's screwdrivers are insulated down to the tip!!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

I am trying to explain the new connector that the wire can be put in the back of. These are not spring loaded like the old connecters that were no good. The screw on the side of the connector is what causes the tightening down on the wire. It is much like how one puts a wire in a breaker terminal and tightens down on a screw. Look at the picture on the right hand side of redwire's post 46. The left one is the old connector. Noticed the screw is not tightened on the picture on the left.

Is there a way to tell without tearing apart the device? Also, are there any benefits to backstabbing? If not, I'll probably just do the screw connection.

I know in our old house, my dad hired a "master electrician". When I say master electrician, I really mean a scam artist.

Anyway, half the outlets didn't work. We tore them apart and where he screwed the wire down, it had come off on a ton of outlets and switches! Even at the breaker box, there were white wires that weren't connected. Whenever we flipped the switch in the bathroom, we'd see a spark. I tore off the wall plate and the connections there looked good. It took me a while to figure out what was causing it. It was the white wire in the breaker, it wasn't connected at all! Every time we flipped the switch, at the breaker box, you could actually see the spark arcing from the white neutral wire to the neutral busbar.

With the good connections in the back, are they less likely to come off? Personally, I always try to bend the wires into a circle or almost a circle, around the screw, and then tighten the screw down. I have them bent in such away where they grab when the screw is tightened.

The "master electrician" had his wires going every which way. Some grabbed when the screw was tightened, some were bent the wrong way and wanted to slip out. He didn't know any codes at all. We had a scuttle and you couldn't even get into the attic, there were wires going over the freaking scuttle! That's not up to code at all. We had to slip the scuttle thingamajig out of the way and slide up through one of the wires. What a rip off! My dad went for the cheapest guy he could find, 10$ an hour. I told him a master electrician isn't no 10$ an hour! But his "friend" recommended him. Such a freaking scam! He also had my dad do most of the work! He just supervised! I spoke my mind, right in front of him, and the guy got really pissed and asked why I don't do the job if I don't like his work. And I said because we're freaking paying you!!!!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

that's why electrician's screwdrivers are insulated down to the tip!!

Yeah, this was just a normal screw driver, not something that was designed for the type of work I was doing. I still don't have one of those electrician screwdrivers. I should invest in one.

My Uncle told me this story before he tied. There was this guy he used to know that used to like to show off for the ladies. They'd party down by the river and there was this tower with all these electrical lines on them. This guy would climb up there and jump from the tower to one of the wires and climb around on it. One night, he climbed up and went to jump to the wire but made contact with the wire while his feet were still on the tower. My Uncle said he lit right up. He smelled really bad and I guess he was somehow stuck to the wires. Like he melted to it or something. I was maybe 13 when he told me this so I don't remember all the details.

When I was even younger, up at my parents house, there were these two big white birds on the telephone pole. They did something that made them light up and die. I ran inside and told my dad, he came out and looked at them. They were on the ground smoking. My dad said they probably pecked the wire or something. I don't know if they were seagulls or what. It was the only time I seen birds die like that.

[stj]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

about the screwdriver,
in a pinch you can fit a couple of layers of heatshrink tubing over the shaft of a regular driver.

i have done that with one of those drivers that takes the hex-ended bits.

[keeney123]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

Is there a way to tell without tearing apart the device? Also, are there any benefits to backstabbing? If not, I'll probably just do the screw connection.

I know in our old house, my dad hired a "master electrician". When I say master electrician, I really mean a scam artist.

Anyway, half the outlets didn't work. We tore them apart and where he screwed the wire down, it had come off on a ton of outlets and switches! Even at the breaker box, there were white wires that weren't connected. Whenever we flipped the switch in the bathroom, we'd see a spark. I tore off the wall plate and the connections there looked good. It took me a while to figure out what was causing it. It was the white wire in the breaker, it wasn't connected at all! Every time we flipped the switch, at the breaker box, you could actually see the spark arcing from the white neutral wire to the neutral busbar.

With the good connections in the back, are they less likely to come off? Personally, I always try to bend the wires into a circle or almost a circle, around the screw, and then tighten the screw down. I have them bent in such away where they grab when the screw is tightened.

The "master electrician" had his wires going every which way. Some grabbed when the screw was tightened, some were bent the wrong way and wanted to slip out. He didn't know any codes at all. We had a scuttle and you couldn't even get into the attic, there were wires going over the freaking scuttle! That's not up to code at all. We had to slip the scuttle thingamajig out of the way and slide up through one of the wires. What a rip off! My dad went for the cheapest guy he could find, 10$ an hour. I told him a master electrician isn't no 10$ an hour! But his "friend" recommended him. Such a freaking scam! He also had my dad do most of the work! He just supervised! I spoke my mind, right in front of him, and the guy got really pissed and asked why I don't do the job if I don't like his work. And I said because we're freaking paying you!!!!

The benefit I would say is that the wires in the box can be shorter, will fit in the box better, less exposed surface to short out to the box and it takes less time. Do what makes you comfortable.
The easy way to tell is put a wire in the back, if it can not be pulled out without resistance then it is the wrong type. The ones that work correctly you need to tighten the screw down for the wire "not" to move. You can then loosen the screw and the wire will again be able to come out. You will need to strip the end of the wire to a certain length. You can figure this out by simply stripping one wire a 1.5 inches and measure the amount inserted into the receptacle. You will then know approximately how far to strip a wire You can also ask the person you buy the product from and to verify they are telling you the truth carry a number twelve wire with you and verify it in front of the sales person.

[keeney123]

Re: Using higher amperage receptacles with lower amperage breakers

about the screwdriver,
in a pinch you can fit a couple of layers of heatshrink tubing over the shaft of a regular driver.

i have done that with one of those drivers that takes the hex-ended bits.

You can also bring a dried piece of wood to stand on.