Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

[Logistics]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

None of this really matters in practice. It's been discussed, many times on this board how users have put motherboards in the dish-washer to clean them, sometimes to remove the nasty residue left by a heavy smoker. The only caveat is that you typically need to remove the capacitors, otherwise they will fill with water and be contaminated.

But OP is reading into this too far. The basis for deionized/distilled water is simply to avoid deposits from tap-water. But again, this is not an issue in actual practice.

[juliadream]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

wash your boards in water ny all means.. but then immediately you must displace the water.. with a water seeking chemical.. MEK or meths or acetone.. anything which will displace the water from under those bga chips before it gets chance to absorb co2 from the atmosphere, and become a mild acid which will then basically make a battery between any different metals that are near each other..

in the distant past I had to soak some crusty boards in the bath overnight to get the jelly like beer and fag ash gunk off them.. dj's are a mucky lot.. turntables going 99rpm backwards are funny tho.. then meths.. then the hairdryer.. then a nice coating of waterproof silicone spray stuff that RS used to sell for the purpose.. no worries..

Wouldn't do that to say a phone tho.. unless it was still wet from the urinal or whatever.. water can completely corrode the tinies on a phone board in a matter of a few hours.. forget the rice.. throw it in a bowl of meths (or even vodka is better than nothing.. stronger the better.. then give the vodka to somebody you don't like very much.. hahaha) while it's still wet !!! obviously the first thing you do is unplug the battery.. then the mission is getting rid of the water as fast as possible..

I hate urinal phones.. nasty nasty nasty !!!

[stj]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

NOT MEK, METHS, or ACETONE.

MEK & ACETONE will take the print and coloured bands off most components,
METHS will leave a nasty coating on the board.

Isopropanol (IPA) is the chemical to use.

[caphair]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

I've been using isopropyl alcohol and a soft bristle toothbrush.

For a while I was soaking the board in distilled water to loosen up some sticky stuff but always follow with IPA

However I've noticed once corrosion starts there's really no fixing without making jumper wires or replacing components.

I'm wondering would using flux on contacts like that and heating with hot air reverse the corrosion or no?

[stj]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

you cant reverse missing metal, only stop it getting worse.

if i see coroding tracks, i clean them with a fiberglass pencil and tin them.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

More to the point is that you do not want to place any circuit board in water unless you are faced with certain death if you don't try something. Spills of corrosive liquids can sometimes be removed by careful brushing in warm water, IF the spill is very recent. But odds are not in your favor. Placing the board in an ultrasonic cleaner is insanity. Are you going to put your reputation on the line by doing something like that? I wouldn't.

Ultrasonic cleaning is for jewelry.

Just started reading this thread, but are you sure about this? I recently got a BGA rework station and it seems these ultra-sonic cleaners for circuit boards are a fairly common thing in the very professional area of BGA repair, at least from what I've been reading. I mean, I don't think your average hobbyist would have one, but something like in a laboratory environment or some big company that makes motherboards or something, they might be used all the time...

Seems like googling ultrasonic PCB cleaner gives a lot of information about this. I haven't seen anywhere were it says it's a bad thing when I was reading up on it a while back after learning about it. I was reading a technical article and some guy who was very qualified and worked in some electronic engineer position for a lifetime went to some store repairing 360's and shocked to find they were reflowing GPU's without any of the really fancy equipment he had been using for the last 30 years or so. He went on to say the guy basically tries it after he repair. If it works, he stress tests it, if not, trashes it. He mentions that there was no ultrasonic cleaner being used and that sparked my attention because I had never heard of it before.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

As your excerpt says ultra pure is used in the semi conductor business because it leaves no contamination. If your looking to strip things, it's best to use something specific instead of water. The chemical we used was meant mostly for flux. It dissolved flux very well. Water would not. Yes water can strip steal, it's called rust. Those sites are being disingenuous. We used to use freon to clean tape residue in tape recorders. It removed the brown residue very well. In the days of digital tape you had to keep the heads clean. I never lost a tape because I cleaned the path before each use. I watched more lazy people chew up several tapes from a dirty tape path.

I've got a glass bottle here I got in the mid eighties. I use it on cassette deck heads. Works great. Trichlorotriflouroethane. Works great on tape paths, much better than alcohol.

Do you need any special licenses or anything to get that trichlorotriflouroethane? Can a person just order that off the net you think without any questions being raised? I know certain things are on watch lists, like Lysergic Acid, although it seems you can order Lysergic Acid Diethylamide-25 without a license or prescription, which I don't think I'd really trust. Can't really see that ever coming in the mail, the LSD I mean, not from some on-line site like anonshop.

I got some no-clean flux that is better if it's cleaned, that's why I was asking.

[stj]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

stick with IPA

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

stick with IPA

Would that work under the larger BGA components though Stj? My understanding, from talking to the company who makes the flux, this is why I'd use the ultrasonic cleaner with a certain solution. They gave a name of the solution, I assumed it was the stuff that was discussed here. I can verify.

It's a no-clean flux they said but they said sometimes, I will need to clean it and if I can clean it, it's best to clean it, but at times, it's safe to leave it, if that makes any sense.

[keeney123]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

Do you need any special licenses or anything to get that trichlorotriflouroethane? Can a person just order that off the net you think without any questions being raised? I know certain things are on watch lists, like Lysergic Acid, although it seems you can order Lysergic Acid Diethylamide-25 without a license or prescription, which I don't think I'd really trust. Can't really see that ever coming in the mail, the LSD I mean, not from some on-line site like anonshop.

I got some no-clean flux that is better if it's cleaned, that's why I was asking.

I would think about sticking with isopropyl as it is safer. As far as LSD when I was 16 years old my friends in Ma use to send me micro dots on a piece of paper through the mail to Florida. It was a clear tiny dot that had no smell. It was made in a laboratory. I think it would be very hard to detect this in the mail. Of course science has come a long way since then. LSD should only be used in a controlled environment with a Psychiatrist or Shaman. It is used for solders returning from war that are addicted to pain medicare. It works very effectively with this because it lessens the withdrawal and is very effective at blocking pain. Also, they use it for people in the last stages of a terminal illness by causing those people to look at what they fear. Again this needs to be in a controlled environment with very positive reinforcement from the person conducting these events.

[stj]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

ipa will desolve most fluxes, and ultrasonic tanks are safe as long as they arent VERY powerfull and then you must not put crystals in them.

when i say VERY powerfull, i'm talking about units the size of a chest-freezer with internal heater and condenser.
we had one of those filled wih Freon at a place i worked at that assembled professional pcb's

the pcb was assembled minus any crystals,
then loaded into the unit for 5 min's to remove all the flux.

then the crystal(s) got fitted.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

I would think about sticking with isopropyl as it is safer. As far as LSD when I was 16 years old my friends in Ma use to send me micro dots on a piece of paper through the mail to Florida. It was a clear tiny dot that had no smell. It was made in a laboratory. I think it would be very hard to detect this in the mail. Of course science has come a long way since then. LSD should only be used in a controlled environment with a Psychiatrist or Shaman. It is used for solders returning from war that are addicted to pain medicare. It works very effectively with this because it lessens the withdrawal and is very effective at blocking pain. Also, they use it for people in the last stages of a terminal illness by causing those people to look at what they fear. Again this needs to be in a controlled environment with very positive reinforcement from the person conducting these events.

I would be more afraid of getting ripped off, ordering LSD through the mail. But even if I had a confirmed source that was far away, I think, even if it was a small chance of getting caught, because of how much trouble I'd get in, I'd probably find other ways.

My experience with LSD and pain is this. I try not to look at LSD so much as a drug but more of a tool of the mind. For example, let's say I take 100 micrograms of LSD and then I go play a video game. If it's my first time playing the video game, I might do extremely well or extremely poorly. But if I've tripped enough and feel comfortable, when I play that video game, I'll rock it. If it's something like guitar hero, for example, all golden stars, not one note missed. I could put the game on the hardest settings and beat it more than likely, or do extremely well. Someone who hasn't tripped a lot might attribute this to the actual LSD, but in all reality, it's me that did it. I just setup these filters, these blocks in my mind, saying that I couldn't do it. The LSD just helped me lower those filters. Once I come down, I'll always be able to play that game very well. Pain, from my experience, it kind of works the same. When you take LSD, if you're in a bit of pain, it's really your mind that determines if you feel it or not. I've had a small headache that magnified to the worst pain I have ever felt. At the time, I hadn't taken acid very much at all. Over the years, I've taken a fair amount. I got a bad knee now. Most of the time, I can't feel it, because I'm on pain medicine. The last time I went to the Grassroots Festival, I managed to find some acid though and took it. Next thing I knew, my knee started to feel a bit strange. The more I thought about it, the more it started to hurt. Next thing I knew, it was on fire. But I just reminded myself that the pain wasn't there and just kind of pushed it away, if you know what I mean.

In real life, we can do the same kind of. We can push the pain away, it's not as easy and it takes some practice, but if we say hey, this isn't going to hurt, we can actually lighten the pain at least. It takes a lot to practice but it does work. We've always had the ability, the LSD just helps us see it a bit easier.

The one problem, I think, when you start taking higher amounts, you open some doors in your mind that probably weren't meant to be opened, you know?

Another thing, people talk about bad trips....I think with LSD, there's really no such thing, if you take it properly. I've had some very unpleasant times, but usually, those are the times I learn the most about me and what's bothering me. LSD kind of amplifies certain things, like emotions. If you don't know what you're doing, they can get out of control. Sometimes, you got stuff bothering you and you don't realize it. How can you deal with something if you don't even realize it's bothering you? Kinda hard. LSD will bring that stuff out, whether you want to deal with it or not. You got issues, you'll know about them real soon like. Think that ex-girlfriend who just broke up with ya didn't really bother ya? You'll know soon enough if you drop! That's for sure. But afterwards, if you was with a guide or just didn't freak out the whole time, but actually managed to sit up and deal with what you was freaking out about, you'll realize things....things that will make your life much better.

I think with me, I've taken a bit too much over the years and I should really avoid it. I'm good when I'm on it, it's afterwards I've noticed I have some issues...going up is fun but coming down isn't as easy as it used to be and I've noticed for a while afterwards, I'm not quite right....I mean, before, it was like a day or two. Now we're talking a few months. I'm afraid one of these days, if I keep on taking it, I'm not going to be right at all anymore, ever. Before, this didn't really bother me, but now I have someone who cares about me. I don't want them having to lose me, you know?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

ipa will desolve most fluxes, and ultrasonic tanks are safe as long as they arent VERY powerfull and then you must not put crystals in them.

when i say VERY powerfull, i'm talking about units the size of a chest-freezer with internal heater and condenser.
we had one of those filled wih Freon at a place i worked at that assembled professional pcb's

the pcb was assembled minus any crystals,
then loaded into the unit for 5 min's to remove all the flux.

then the crystal(s) got fitted.

The units I were looking at were made just for PCBs. It seems there's a few different ultrasonic cleaners out there used for a bunch of different stuff. I was under the impression without the ultrasonic cleaner, I just wouldn't physically be able to get to the flux. Whatever I used as a solvent wouldn't work it's way all underneath there without the vibrations.

To the OP though, I didn't read every post, I just wanted to say the minerals in tap water, they're what's conductive. With distilled water, if it's truly distilled, you should be able to use the water as an insulator because there's no minerals for the electricity to travel through. The idea, I believe, was you use distilled water and as others said, when it evaporates, it leaves behind no minerals. With tap, there's the small chance that those minerals would complete a full path from one part of a circuit to another, one that wasn't meant to be there and do bad stuff.

Where I live, we have really hard water. I took our tap water and put it in the oven on a baking sheet. I baked it so it'd evaporate fast. What was left was this white powdery stuff. I used a razor to scrape it up. I believe that was the minerals. When I used distilled, there was nothing left. I did this so I could separate a water soluble product that was mixed with a non-water soluble product. I created a small filter, mixed my product with distilled water. Then I poured it into the filter and let it trip on the cookie sheet. The non-soluble product stayed in the filter. The water soluble product tripped through. Then I just evaporated the water to get the product without the water, just in a more pure form. It worked really well. I'm sure some of the original product got lost in the filter but eh. I was happy with the results.

[keeney123]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

Spork if you have someone that Loves you and You Love them than that is a special thing and it does not come along very often. It is worth trying to keep. My experience with LSD is that the more I took the harder it was for me to come down. Near the end of taking this when I was 17 year old it would take me 2 days to come down. When I started at 15 years old it only took 8 hours. I still would recommend a person take this under supervision as without it things can get out of control real fast. It is a tool to be used and not overused. Things that are disturbing a person will come to the forefront. It the person has any mental illness than those things will be amplified. This is where it gets tricky. Some people have died on this drug because of the way they were thinking and they had no one to guide them. Some of use should of died, but the Universe was not willing to let use go at least not just yet.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Confusion about distilled/deionized water for circuit board cleaning

Spork if you have someone that Loves you and You Love them than that is a special thing and it does not come along very often. It is worth trying to keep. My experience with LSD is that the more I took the harder it was for me to come down. Near the end of taking this when I was 17 year old it would take me 2 days to come down. When I started at 15 years old it only took 8 hours. I still would recommend a person take this under supervision as without it things can get out of control real fast. It is a tool to be used and not overused. Things that are disturbing a person will come to the forefront. It the person has any mental illness than those things will be amplified. This is where it gets tricky. Some people have died on this drug because of the way they were thinking and they had no one to guide them. Some of use should of died, but the Universe was not willing to let use go at least not just yet.

I agree, the guide is the most important part, especially if you're not experienced. I've taken it so many times that at this point, when someone wants to take some, I might take it with them, the same amount, so we're on the same page, but just try to lead them a bit. You know? And yeah, that's the same issue I have about coming down. Not sure how I'd word it, because I mean, I do come down after 8 to 12 hours, but I'm still not right. I still feel the effects but for a very long time now. Not days, but months. We got a baby coming now too so no more acid for a long time at least!