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**PCBONEZ** · 02-21-2008, 08:52 PM

Re: desoldering iron

1) Desoldering iron with built in bulb.
-
DIY upgrade project. - For mechanically inclined eccentrics such as myself.
-
Consider adding a foot operated vacuum pump with a glass jar for a solder catcher/filter and connect the tube to where the bulb is.
[That way it doesn't shift when it's time to suck.]
I've seen a home made one where they used an salvaged compressor out of an old refrigerator for the pump.
Control Method 1: Pump only runs when you hit the foot switch.
Control Method 2: Alternately you could connect a pressure (vacuum) regulator (to start/stop the motor) to a vacuum reservoir and use a foot valve between the reservoir and the iron's tip. [A vacuum diaphragm from an old style car distributor works well enough to control a mechanical switch.]

2) 20/40 watt soldering iron (Radio Shack. May get replaced shortly)
40-60 watt is better.
Have a few various watts with different tips so you don't have to wait for cool down to change tips..

.

**starfury1** · 02-21-2008, 10:47 PM

Re: desoldering iron

5) Stainless steel pick - one of the most annoying pieces of crap I've ever tried to use to repair motherboards. It goes quite nicely through a clean hole, but if you have solder in the hole, forget it. I don't know how you guys are doing it

the idea is to rest it on one side heat solder till molten and push through "hole clearing" but if you can do it via vacuum desolder...then thats good.

6) X-celite snips (Haven't nicked a board yet. Not sure how people are managing to do that)

first timer's knowing no better I think this is a case of

**Bookworm** · 02-21-2008, 11:54 PM

Re: desoldering iron

If I've used the solder sucker to empty the hole clean (which means I don't really have to worry about "Is this ROHS or not?" solder), I can put the pick through cleanly - it doesn't slide through, but it pokes through more than enough for a lead.

However, if there _is_ solder in there, molten or not, it doesn't get out of the way enough for the pick to 'seat'.

**Bookworm** · 02-22-2008, 12:02 AM

Re: desoldering iron

Originally posted by PCBONEZ

1) Desoldering iron with built in bulb.
-
DIY upgrade project. - For mechanically inclined eccentrics such as myself.
-
Consider adding a foot operated vacuum pump with a glass jar for a solder catcher/filter and connect the tube to where the bulb is.
[That way it doesn't shift when it's time to suck.]
I've seen a home made one where they used an salvaged compressor out of an old refrigerator for the pump.
Control Method 1: Pump only runs when you hit the foot switch.
Control Method 2: Alternately you could connect a pressure (vacuum) regulator (to start/stop the motor) to a vacuum reservoir and use a foot valve between the reservoir and the iron's tip. [A vacuum diaphragm from an old style car distributor works well enough to control a mechanical switch.]

If I was going to go to that much trouble, I'd just spend $150 for a iron with built in vacuum pump

2) 20/40 watt soldering iron (Radio Shack. May get replaced shortly)
40-60 watt is better.
Have a few various watts with different tips so you don't have to wait for cool down to change tips..

.

I actually have a 40 watt standalone, and keep eyeballing the adjustable Weller brand irons.

I just don't know if I'm ready for a $100-150 investment just in the soldering iron (especially when I have three corded soldering irons, one cordless, and one desoldering tool); However, I'm considering chopping the power cable and iron off of the Radio Shack unit and attaching a better built iron to it. Otherwise, it might just end up just an iron holder.

**i4004** · 02-22-2008, 03:26 AM

Re: desoldering iron

i agree about Stainless steel pick.
it's no good. can be done, but not elegant at all.

next time i'll use vacuum pump, perhaps i'll add some silicon hose on top because i couldn't reach the board(caps blocking access), and i doubt i'll ever be blindly swapping all caps. i'll change those that fail, which means some will remain on board.

i would say 40 or 60w iron gets too hot so you need to clean the tip almost all the time. better to have soldering station and decrease the temp upon installing new caps.

**starfury1** · 02-22-2008, 05:09 AM

Re: desoldering iron

unfortunately due to costs of desolder gear
(apart from those that have the brains to put something together them selfs)
its probably the safest way (when done right) to clear a hole without damaging the PCB from excessive heat
(don't know about the RoHs side of things, Ive only used it on 60/40 stuff))

"elegant" it may not be and yes if you can or have got desolder gear then by all means thats the real way to go.

I could never get the hang of those bulb things and the spring loaded jobs were the pitts too...I got one I can use and works OK but I wouldn't use it on an MB so thats why I got the el cheapo desolder station.

the el cheapo desolder station I got works mostly ok for desoldering
but sometimes I use a needle to clear
(have now worked out a way of using the 2 together on pain in the a#$% holes)

I have yet to try this on RoHs crap, which does require (so I read Hotter Temps.... not the desolder station)

you have a lot of those come here that don't even know how to solder.
(which is a worry in its self when they are wanting to recap an MB, why I always recommend they practice on junk first or better still send it out for a professional recap)
its doable thought with a bit of practice and some reasonably suitable tools

true too higher wattage might be good for cap removal but better lower temp for reinstalling caps..... its probably a better idea.
(although skill and the particular iron/tip might really determine this for some)

I do recommend spending a bit on a decent iron if your going to be soldering stuff on a somewhat regular basis it just make it easy when the gear works well for the purpose.

The old saying "right tool for the Job"
but thats no substitute for skill, experience and correct training in said use.

Thing that does now make it hard is you have to now cater for both types of solder, tin lead and tin (almost) only (RoHs)
My understanding is
The 2 types should never be mixed and do have different requirements

I do hare a few 240V irons but mostly I'll use the weller station...love something newer and more aimed toward Rohs SMD stuff thought but $$$$$$
(I suppose sooner or later I am going to have to deal with it weather I like it or not)

on Bookworms original question

"Dunno if anyone else has really used them, but I've decided that they help."

if you get the right stuff yes they do...but none of them are cheap

cheers

**i4004** · 02-22-2008, 06:43 AM

Re: desoldering iron

I got one I can use and works OK but I wouldn't use it on an MB

why not?
when i said "vacuum pump" i was talking about cheap one, for example like this

on badcaps website i think i saw topcat mentioning pump shouldn't be used more than 2 times. why not? why not use it 10 times if need be?

If you weren't that lucky and the hole remains closed, here's what you need to do. DO NOT TRY THE 'SOLDER SUCKER' MORE THAN TWICE!!! If you do, you can damage your board!!

https://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=32

how do you damage the board with sucker?

and...how do you use 2 together? wouldn't you need one more pair of hands?

**kc8adu** · 02-22-2008, 07:08 AM

Re: desoldering iron

biggest problem with those is they drop crumbs which can lodge between pins of fine pitch chips.

**i4004** · 02-22-2008, 07:41 AM

Re: desoldering iron

it's easy enough to mask areas you need to protect, although i didn't notice that happening.

**starfury1** · 02-22-2008, 08:29 AM

Re: desoldering iron

true as kc8 said mine does...unless you want to clean it all the time
they do tend to jar and jerk which could throw crumbs further away too

I guess TC is possibly referring to the fact if you haven't got it by two
you will probably end up doing damaged to the pcb via from heat

but I'll let him answer for himself on that

Some people will drill lightly by hand with a smaller diameter bit...considered very risky
really a filing action with the bit...but you could cut through the side of the VIA so not recommenced
(Defiantly NEVER with a powered drill)

I would only do that as a last resort and if I thought more heat was likely to result in damaged VIA or track

sometimes filling it with more solder helps with the vacuum things too
Extra flux helps I find (reflow liquid) solder tends to ball

I think its really a matter of finding what works for you
(that doesn't damage the MB)

but just note the levels of risk with the methods you use

Cheers

**bgavin** · 02-22-2008, 08:50 AM

Re: desoldering iron

Originally posted by i4004

why not?
when i said "vacuum pump" i was talking about cheap one, for example like this

I bought this sorry-ass piece of crap, and it is worthless. I paid something like $2 for it on eBay, but am still annoyed that it is literally worthless.

**bgavin** · 02-22-2008, 08:52 AM

Re: desoldering iron

I can't see recapping motherboards with a low wattage iron. I use a Hakko that gets up to 450C, and I very often need it to dislodge the crappy solder on some boards. A lower temp just won't do.

I took Willawakes' suggestions verbatim, and they work great for me. Wedge shaped tip, 450C iron, stainless needle. It works every time for me. The Hakko solder station was less than $70 USD, and a real bargain. It is very well made and does the job.

**i4004** · 02-22-2008, 09:56 AM

Re: desoldering iron

I bought this sorry-ass piece of crap, and it is worthless. I paid something like $2 for it on eBay, but am still annoyed that it is literally worthless.

you bought used solder sucker?
for 2$ off the ebay?
quite possibly one of the weirdest things i ever heard.

as for the soldering iron power: if your tip is constantly burnt(and and 450°c it will be) then transfer of heat from tip is compromised(as tip is almost constantly oxidized and dirty), which in the end means you'll probably do better at lower temp. and clean tip, as tip will stay cleaner on lower temp.
also, big temp alone doesn't mean much; if you have underpowered iron that can reach 450°c it doesn't mean it can remain at that temp once you touch the thing you wanna melt. i woulds rather have 400°c but with more "grunt", ie with better chances of temp staying near the 400.

but just note the levels of risk with the methods you use

i would say risk is higher with steel needle, because even if it's not fully wettable, it's still somewhat wettable(probably because of rather high temperature) and the fact that solder hardens pretty fast don't help much either.
so you may as well end up with repeated heating attampts, and that endangers the board. and letting the stuck needle cool down doesn't help either....

**i4004** · 02-22-2008, 02:23 PM

Re: desoldering iron

i've just cleaned 15 holes with one wooden toothpick.
worked better than steel needle.

Attached Files

**i4004** · 02-22-2008, 02:40 PM

Re: desoldering iron

and holes are surprisingly clean: no charcoal!

i guess i have high quality toothpicks!

Attached Files

**PCBONEZ** · 02-22-2008, 03:36 PM

Re: desoldering iron

Originally posted by Bookworm

If I was going to go to that much trouble, I'd just spend $150 for a iron with built in vacuum pump

The maintaining those (replacement parts, tips, filters, and such) costs big bucks too.

You can build what I'm talking about for $20-$30.

.

**willawake** · 02-22-2008, 03:46 PM

Re: desoldering iron

Originally posted by i4004

you bought used solder sucker?
for 2$ off the ebay?
quite possibly one of the weirdest things i ever heard.

Originally posted by i4004

i've just cleaned 15 holes with one wooden toothpick.

the second one is the most wierdest for me

**i4004** · 02-22-2008, 04:29 PM

Re: desoldering iron

i bet it is...untill you try it.
i was thinking about wood for some time now(as i wasn't satisfied with steel needle i was thinking about other materials...another material i thought about was aluminum wire), and i thought it probably won't work, it'll burn too quickly. but it doesn't, really.
at least these toothpicks didn't(i would say they're melting much faster in my mouth..hehe).
if somebody has trouble believing it, i can produce video-clip that proves it.

buying used desoldering pump is kinda no starter for me because new pump is cheap.
kinda like buying used..toothpicks...

offcourse, if it was unused, i guess it's ok, and in that case only lack of experience can explain bgavin's disgust with it.
i remember i felt simillar when i saw it for the first time.
i was like "how the hell can you do anything usefull with this?".
but you can.

as op said
"there are a couple of 'tricks' to it".

**PCBONEZ** · 02-22-2008, 04:41 PM

Re: desoldering iron

Hmmm,,,, Interesting...

Anyone know where to get oak tooth picks?

.

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