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Old 12-26-2018, 08:39 AM   #101
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
take a look at the reallocated sector phail from the smart data...
Looks like a variant of classic HDD failure and not because of a bad board/cache.

(On another note, I do know that certain Western Digital Caviar HDDs from pre-1998 or pre-1997, seem prone to bad sectors or a bad head and possibly general mechanical problems!)

(IIRC, I had one of the ones that I mentioned, a 1 GB, IIRC, which looked like it was manufactured in 1996 and they're would be a click of death beyond 238 MiB! The spinning was also unusually loud, IIRC, sounded like some friction against metal!)
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:33 AM   #102
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

This may not be the problem but I have seen a lot of drives where the contacts between the board and the drive become tarnished and may be causing issues, cleaning them with an erasser my help.

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Old 12-26-2018, 10:37 AM   #103
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post

i also noticed that this live session of mini-xp started to stutter after the overnight write scan. strange... also, i have something like 200-300 slow sectors that take >600ms to be readable/writeable. i think im going to try to make the drive reallocate the slow sectors with >500ms response time using victoria.
I bet, if it was one of those Maxtor "slimeline" HDDs, you would keep seeing shit like that even when you told the utility to have slow sectors like that excluded!

And then likely a click-of-death later on...
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:52 AM   #104
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

[Knock on wood]

I have a few 2TB drives, they all are still functioning.
The oldest is a WD green, and I have a refurbished WD (??color). The WD (??color) is reporting errors/bad sectors but I wonder if it's due to PSU problems as that machine keeps chunking PSUs. It is still functional, around 4+ years POH, and RAID1 with a Seagate 2T disk.

My WD Green 2T disk I couldn't stop Linux from load cycling until it was too late so it has a huge load cycle count. But it's over 5.5 years POH now. Fortunately no bad sectors.

The Seagate 2T disk (acquired new) seems okay but it does not have many POH as it's typically turned off along with the WD (??color) as they are RAID1.

I have a few other Toshiba 2T's as a RAID5 and they're average about 2 years old POH. Still doing okay.

I do wonder now, should HDDs be considered disposable and have to keep it all backed up and/or RAIDded, so a bad hard drive is just a monetary inconvenience?
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Old 12-26-2018, 03:15 PM   #105
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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I do wonder now, should HDDs be considered disposable and have to keep it all backed up and/or RAIDded, so a bad hard drive is just a monetary inconvenience?
If you value the data on the drives, then you should plan on the drive failing at any time -- is your data worth more 3 years from now (when the drive is 3 years older) than it is, now? I.e., why would you consider backing up data on an older drive but not a newer one?

I keep at least two copies of everything on at least two different spindles. The really important things are backed up on different types of media.

Also, I regularly "verify/refresh" every instance of every file just so I know it's "still good (and accessible)" -- even optical media! (I have an automated system that alerts me to which volumes need to be mounted so that they can be checked "recently")

And, no RAID as that often limits your recovery abilities (what if the controller sh*ts the bed?) to whatever the controller decides is appropriate.
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:53 AM   #106
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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so a bad hard drive is just a monetary inconvenience?
i think its more than that. its a waste of time and energy as well. i have to spend time setting up the "drive recovery and rescue environment" and i have to wait for it to pull all the data off the drive before i can use my system again.

its also a waste of electrical energy as i have to leave my system on overnight so it can try to rescue and pull and reread all the data off the bad sectors. in the end, its how much time and energy u can expend to recover as much data as possible versus the loss of use of functionality of the machine u want to use while it performs the recovery.

of course for people like curious george where time=money, its a double whammy of monetary and time inconvenience as well. as for me, its also partly my fault, as i did not expect this drive to fail "because its a wd" and a high end consumer drive line (caviar black) at that.
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:54 AM   #107
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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i think its more than that. its a waste of time and energy as well. i have to spend time setting up the "drive recovery and rescue environment" and i have to wait for it to pull all the data off the drive before i can use my system again.
And you never really know if you actually have recovered the data or just SOME data that appears to have satisfied the ECC and other aspects of the filesystem format. (I keep MD5's of all my files in a database isolated from the files themselves so I can verify their integrity -- online OR in a recovery attempt).

Quote:
its also a waste of electrical energy as i have to leave my system on overnight so it can try to rescue and pull and reread all the data off the bad sectors. in the end, its how much time and energy u can expend to recover as much data as possible versus the loss of use of functionality of the machine u want to use while it performs the recovery.
And, unless the platters/head assembly physically seize up, you're never quite sure when to "give up" in those efforts. Will another hour of tinkering yield more data? Or, will it just be an hour wasted? "If I give up, now, then I know that I won't recover any more. And, I'll never have this opportunity, again, so maybe I should really try a bit harder/longer while I can..."

Quote:
of course for people like curious george where time=money, its a double whammy of monetary and time inconvenience as well. as for me, its also partly my fault, as i did not expect this drive to fail "because its a wd" and a high end consumer drive line (caviar black) at that.
"Only back up the data that you care about..."

(The implication being that if you don't care about the data, why are you saving it?)
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:10 PM   #108
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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well my wd caviar black 2tb kicked the bucket today. was trying to test a video card i bought on ebay so i booted up the system and while installing the video driver, the system was extremely sluggish copying and installing the files. i thought the sata cable was focking with me again and producing lots of ultra dma crc errors so i fired up crystal disk info to check. the cable was fine. instead i saw "caution" and it had one pending sector in smart, so it looks like the drive is failing.
I find that UDMA CRC errors often have to do either with bad cable or bad contacts between PCB and head amp / actuator. So definitely remove the PCB on the drive and check its head amp contacts for corrosion.

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This may not be the problem but I have seen a lot of drives where the contacts between the board and the drive become tarnished and may be causing issues, cleaning them with an erasser my help.
Yup.
Mainly older and some newer Western Digital's had/have that problem (as always, I'm not in-line with the latest tech out there, so can't speak about current HDDs from them).
I now not only clean the contact pads with eraser, but also apply leaded solder over them.

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"Only back up the data that you care about..."
+1

My backup archive is not that big and quite messy. I really should do this in a more organized fashion... but I don't care enough, I suppose. I just know that I have my most important stuff backed up fairly well (at least 1 off-line copy somewhere.), which is mostly my music, pictures, some OS ISOs, and some software and drivers that are hard to find. Everything else (game ISOs, movies, and sentimental/fun junk)... if I have backed up, it's because I probably had a convenient option at the time. If I didn't, then it's probably not backed up.

And if it all gets lost.... well F--- it, nothing lives forever, right.

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Old 01-15-2019, 08:47 AM   #109
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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My backup archive is not that big and quite messy. I really should do this in a more organized fashion... but I don't care enough, I suppose. I just know that I have my most important stuff backed up fairly well (at least 1 off-line copy somewhere.), which is mostly my music, pictures, some OS ISOs, and some software and drivers that are hard to find.
The problem is that you (typically) don't have good "predictive powers" as to what you MIGHT need at some future date.

Just yesterday, I realized that a piece of software that I wrote 30+ years ago would PERFECTLY fit the bill for a project I started! (Of course, my memory of having written it probably influenced my realization that it would be a viable "solution").

So, today I have to figure out what I would have called it "back then" if I have any hope of finding it in my index/catalog. I am only belatedly realizing the value of maintaining timestamps on files! I've been careless, over the years, so have many files that I know are decades old but bear "recent" timestamps owing to how/when/where I copied them from their originals.

<frown> Just tiny pieces of "lost data" that, in this case, would have made my search much easier!! (search for year = 1986)

One thing, for sure, is that all of the files will likely have 8.3 names! :>
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:57 PM   #110
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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The problem is that you (typically) don't have good "predictive powers" as to what you MIGHT need at some future date.
Well, you typically aren't going to need that HDD full of, say, Linux ISOs that you haven't used since 2002...
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:42 PM   #111
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Well, you typically aren't going to need that HDD full of, say, Linux ISOs that you haven't used since 2002...
Are you SURE? Sure enough to delete them and possibly NEVER recover them, again?

Please locate a copy of the sources (or binaries!) for Mach MK78 for me. I'll wait...

...

...

No luck, eh?

I can install FreeBSD on a Compaq Portable 386 (a few MEGAbytes of RAM) -- but not if I've discarded the ISOs of the older versions of FreeBSD that DID run on hardware of that era!

When you treat disk space as "free", there is no upside to discarding things and plenty of opportunity for "subsequent regrets".
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:24 PM   #112
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

On Linux runing on a hard drive, I am using Mint on the lap top I am typeing this from . The iso is like 1.9 gig , 2 something running with all the swap files.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:33 AM   #113
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On Linux runing on a hard drive, I am using Mint on the lap top I am typeing this from . The iso is like 1.9 gig , 2 something running with all the swap files.
I have NetBSD 7.1 installed on an Eee PC 1000 (8GB SSD). The "system" (kernel, system/userland binaries, X server/clients, compiler, man pages, log files) consumes ~650MiB. The sources (kernel + all system/userland apps, S, compiler, all "supplemental packages" like OO/KDE/asterisk, etc.) consume another ~2GiB. No swap space configured (cuz it's an SSD).

I suspect this is a tiny fraction of what a BARE W7 installation occupies!
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:14 AM   #114
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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I have NetBSD 7.1 installed on an Eee PC 1000 (8GB SSD). The "system" (kernel, system/userland binaries, X server/clients, compiler, man pages, log files) consumes ~650MiB. The sources (kernel + all system/userland apps, S, compiler, all "supplemental packages" like OO/KDE/asterisk, etc.) consume another ~2GiB. No swap space configured (cuz it's an SSD).

I suspect this is a tiny fraction of what a BARE W7 installation occupies!
Roughly on par for Windows 7 Embedded.
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:33 PM   #115
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Roughly on par for Windows 7 Embedded.
The difference is that XPe is "just a client". You wouldn't let it provide core services for a network (BIND/NTPd/FTPd/NFSd/BOOTPd/TFTPd/DHCPd/etc.) -- or include development/debugging tools to be an extensible platform -- "out-of-the-box".

(I repurpose XPe appliances to run NetBSD diskless/headless... what value does XPe have without a keyboard and display?)

We already know the sources for XPe aren't even available, let alone "included".

Nor is XPe "free" and independently maintainable (once EoL'ed).

And, of course, you don't have to think about rebooting it as its sole "fix" when it f*cks itself!
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Old 01-19-2019, 05:06 PM   #116
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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The problem is that you (typically) don't have good "predictive powers" as to what you MIGHT need at some future date.
Oh, but I do.

My music and some of my pictures are really the only two things I care about - and hence the only two I backup the most. Lately, I've also started to backup my data sheet library, as I've spend a considerable amount of time to organize it, and some data sheets weren't exactly easy to find. Same with certain drivers for hardware that I still own & use.

As for any projects, receipts, tax documents and etc. - I couldn't care if these went with the devil one day. I back them up simply because they don't take that much space. Movies and game files do take up a lot of space, so these I don't really backup either, unless it's something that I use often and I know is hard/impossible to find now (came in point: some old game mods that have long been gone from the internet and no one cares about anymore.)
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:27 PM   #117
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

[predictive powers]

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Oh, but I do.
Then you're in an envious position! I have to keep past projects on the chance that a client will want some tweak at a later date. So, I freeze my entire workstation state at the time I deliver a project (so I have all the tools and their configuration preserved, as well). Otherwise, I'm at the mercy of the client to have retained a copy of my "deliverables" that I can work from. He'll often have little incentive to do so as he will have made modifications and want me to "inherit" those modifications in the changes that I make (translation: fix his f*ckups!)

Quote:
My music and some of my pictures are really the only two things I care about - and hence the only two I backup the most.
I can probably recover most of my music collection from other sources, if need be; they aren't "unique to me". And, I only take photographs of things (not people) so there's no real attachment there. If I could never-again see a photo of a prototype that I built 40 years ago I wouldn't shed any tears...

Quote:
Lately, I've also started to backup my data sheet library, as I've spend a considerable amount of time to organize it, and some data sheets weren't exactly easy to find. Same with certain drivers for hardware that I still own & use.
Datasheets get captured with the project to which they applied. So, I don't have to chase down a particular part number in a "library". Instead, the parts used on project X are captured along with the tools and work done on project X. This also makes it easier for me to remember where to find a particular datasheet: "Which project did I use that in?"

I keep an archive of "Kit" with folders for things like Computers, Appliances, Automobiles, etc. Within, for example, Computers, you'd find a folder for each manufacturer (of devices that I've owned or own currently). And, under those, folders for each device -- containing drivers and "build notes" archived from each time I built a system on that particular hardware.

E.g., today I'm adding stuff that I've found when researching a Nest thermostat I rescued a few weeks ago so everything "Nest Thermostat" related sits in a single folder.

Quote:
As for any projects, receipts, tax documents and etc. - I couldn't care if these went with the devil one day. I back them up simply because they don't take that much space.
I keep all of my tax records for my business as the cost of NOT having them in an audit far outweighs the effort to retain them. It's also handy when I need to sort out how long ago I bought a particular item -- it will be recorded in my purchases for SOME past year!

Quote:
Movies and game files do take up a lot of space, so these I don't really backup either, unless it's something that I use often and I know is hard/impossible to find now (came in point: some old game mods that have long been gone from the internet and no one cares about anymore.)
Any games that I had are now pretty old (Doom vintage) and don't see any real play. I keep ISOs of all of the CD's as well as the PSP disks. But, they could easily disappear without me (personally) regretting it. OTOH, I keep ROMs for the various video (arcade) games I've owned -- even if I've already given away the arcade piece (there's so little to be SAVED/reclaimed by erasing them that its not worth the effort!)
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:10 PM   #118
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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Western Digital
WD1600BEKT
18 Aug 2009 (under warranty until 2014, hooray)
1420 POH (yes, 1,420)
SMART reads "Pending sectors", system gets stuck in a reboot loop. Error scan shows this-


Seems to act much like one of those Maxtor "slimeline" HDD models! Those Maxtors, (looking at you 6E030L0!) have a known issue where the firmware epically fails to remap sectors.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:36 PM   #119
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

Sometimes I wonder, why we don't go back to software based bad sector mapping... it was the norm years ago.
Then again, what was bad is that the bad blocks were written on the drive itself and you had to copy that data in the OS, and undoubtedly the number of errors on a modern hard drive is many times fold of those old 10MB hard drives.

I recall having a few hard drives where the error map said

none

and be glad I don't have to type anything in the OS.

This does not help against head crashes and other drive failures of course, just media issues.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:55 PM   #120
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Default Re: The hard drive failure thread

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Sometimes I wonder, why we don't go back to software based bad sector mapping... it was the norm years ago.
Yes, it was 22 years ago. (Or at least 21 years ago.)
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