Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

[GeorgeBlitz]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

^ Yup. Thats why im glad Android moved to ART. ELF FTW!

Exactly so! ART is a big improvement, even if a pre-compiled copy of your app takes up more storage. Storage is cheap, CPU is not. ART is still a compromise though. 7.0 looks promising with its re-profiling/recompile gimmick. Gimmick. Lipstick on a pig.

I would like to see changes to Play Store and the Android presentation layer that allows for native software installs that don't burden the end user with knowing what silicon their device uses. I could provide software that targets a dozen architectures and does things that Java apps can never do - but iOS can, just because iOS & objC are creepy fast.

Some Android software already does what I suggest above e.g., OpenCV Library Manager, which determines the arch, then downloads the NDK based shared library for OpenCV in the native machine code. You can't charge for that trick: Google won't let you charge for apps that download code from anywhere but Google Play Store, but they provide no mechanisms for offering such side-loaded libraries. That needs to change.

[goontron]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

^ Yep. Ecosystem lockin.... And people wonder why ive been so keen on getting my Moto G 2013 working. It runs Sailfish OS! Native ELF binaries. It uses the zypper package manager like a goddam openSuse system for bog sakes!

[momaka]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

You also have to worry about crypto miners now stealing your CPU cycles without consent.

Good luck with that on my single core PCs.
Also, I always keep Task Manager open. If I see a website has finished loading and has no active content but continues to bog down my CPU, I investigate.

When a page says "You're Using AdBlock, Please Disable It", just say "Good Call! No thanks!" and close that site because they suck:

I agree. Most websites that ask you to disable your adblockers are usually not worthwhile messing with. That said, there are a few decent webisites that tend to nag me. One of them is CPU-world.com, which has a lot of useful processor info. Another one is DeviantArt - for that one, I do disable my adblocker. BUT! I still have my HOSTs file. So even though the website thinks I've disabled my adblocker, I still don't see any ads due to my HOSTs file.

Never underestimate the power of a good HOSTs file!

Problem is, every OS retailer gives their dev crew the latest/greatest hardware, 10Gb Ethernet, and 802.11ac WiFi. They code for that, and they only optimize once performance suffers noticeably on an overpowered machine. Well, if performance suffers noticeably on a 6-core, 12-thread, 4GHz box, then just imagine what it will behave like on a 1.8GHz Socket-P laptop...

Unfortunately true.

[shovenose]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Firefox has made leaps and bounds in terms of performance... I use their Developer Edition sometimes (which is basically a customized Beta version) and its sooooo much better. Like, with their latest update,it can keep up with Chrome.

Chrome doesn't have the performance advantage over everything else that it used to, but it's still the best balance in terms of performance, UI, features, etc.

I've tried switching back to Firefox from Chrome several times in the last few years, ever since ditching FF a bit after 4 came out, and I've always just gone back to Chrome because Firefox got laggy with multiple heavy tabs open. But when the beta I use goes mainsteam on the 14th, Firefox will be a serious contender again. 64-bit, better UI, amazing performance:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/quantum/

Edge (Win10's IE replacement) is FAST but the UI is just too simple and too stupid.

Now, in terms of legacy hardware, I don't know anybody who still uses anything older than i-series, so I can't tell how you any of these browsers perform on that stuff.

There just isn't any point. My mother has a first-gen i5, my aunt has a second-gen i3 or i5, I don't remember, and myself, I don't have anything older than 3rd-gen i5... But why bother with P4/PD/Core2 crap when i-series stuff is so cheap

I just bought this ThinkPad T430 and with a 250GB SSD off Amazon it's faster than any new computer with a stupid mechanical HDD. Total less than $250 invested including the computer, RAM upgrade, and brand new SSD. And this thing is in mint condition and the battery still lasts 4+ hours.

Before you bash "new(ish) computer build quality" it's a ThinkPad T430, very well built, but I get a fast processor, 1600x900 screen, USB 3.0, SATA III, all that modern stuff

Even my "consumer grade" stuff (MSI gaming laptop, Lenovo ultrabook) has above average build quality. Then again I don't buy the cheap stuff, those cost $1300 and $700 respectively... no AMD/Celeron specials.

If I had to pick what to run on a Core2Quad with 4GB of RAM and Windows 7 64-bit, I'd pick Chrome and tell the person to go from an HDD to an SSD because that matters more than the CPU for web browsing.

[dmill89]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Before you bash "new(ish) computer build quality" it's a ThinkPad T430, very well built, but I get a fast processor, 1600x900 screen, USB 3.0, SATA III, all that modern stuff

Sadly the T430 was the "end of an era" and T series think-pads turned into "ultrabooks" and dropped in build quality/servicibility afterwards (still better than most, but not as good as they once were), ironically while the T450 itself is much thinner it isn't once you put the 6-cell (18650) battery on it (there is an optional 4-cell LiPO battery if you're willing to sacrifice battery life for thinness).

Below is a side by side comparison between a T430 that I uses as my "travel laptop" (purchased for $38 on eBay minus battery and HDD, have about $125 in it after new battery and SSD) and my work T450. (note the blue tape is to cover corporate logos [in the case of the work PC], OS keys, etc., the t450 inside shoot is a stock photo as I'm not going to take my work laptop apart for obvious reasons):

Side by side (T430 on left, T450 on right):






T430 Internal:


T450 Internal (no access panels the whole bottom of the case has to come off):

I don't have anything older than 3rd-gen i5... But why bother with P4/PD/Core2 crap when i-series stuff is so cheap

Agreed, I can kind of see still using Core2Duo/Quad if you already own it and it does what you need, but doesn't really make since to buy now that the 1st/2nd/3rd gen "I" series CPU systems are being retired from the corporate world and are available so cheap (only slightly more than C2D/C2Q).

P4/PD era stuff doesn't make much sense for anything other than a retro-box or "playing with", too underpowered for even most basic use and can easily be replaced with much newer/more powerful hardware for little cost.

[Topcat]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Agreed, I can kind of see still using Core2Duo/Quad if you already own it and it does what you need...

Me being a big fan of that platform (wolfdale, harpertown, yorkfield), If you're not a hardcore gamer, it will do pretty much anything you ask of it. I'll run mine into the ground (2x X5492 @ 3.4GHz 64GB RAM, Quadro NVS510 driving 3x 27" monitors).

Modern browsers have no issues with this hardware configuration....although I have not tried Edge.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

If I had to pick what to run on a Core2Quad with 4GB of RAM and Windows 7 64-bit, I'd pick Chrome and tell the person to go from an HDD to an SSD because that matters more than the CPU for web browsing.

Creating a ramdisk and instructing chrome to write its temp and cache files to the ramdisk is faster than hdd and ssd. I do this with a 384MB ramdisk.

[Behemot]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Hey, I found a special IBM Socket 478 (SL7Q8) P4, 3.4GHz with EM64T enabled! Not tested myself, but it was confirmed by a few ppl at CPU World that it indeed works. Anybody interested? I'll get rid of it for a special collectors price, about 50 bucks shipped

[brethin]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Hey, I found a special IBM Socket 478 (SL7Q8) P4, 3.4GHz with EM64T enabled! Not tested myself, but it was confirmed by a few ppl at CPU World that it indeed works. Anybody interested? I'll get rid of it for a special collectors price, about 50 bucks shipped

socket 478?

[Behemot]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

That's it, 64bit 478 CPU!

[ratdude747]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

socket 478?

http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SL/SL7Q8.html

Yup. 1st Gen Prescott. Must have been an engineering goof (like SMP being enabled on the Celeron Mendocino, aka how the BP6 kicks ass). Sh*t happens, sometimes for the better.

[ratdude747]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Creating a ramdisk and instructing chrome to write its temp and cache files to the ramdisk is faster than hdd and ssd. I do this with a 384MB ramdisk.

This also works for those stuck with x32 CPUs and more memory than windows can utilize:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=247

Works great most of the time. Some things (such as the window live essentials installer) do not like it and need to be run/installed before enabling a PAE RAMdisk.

Just remember that (1) one must install the registry edits that come with the latest version of Gavotte RAMdisk first, and (2) on a non-x64 CPU one will need to turn on PAE via the command line and reboot first (x32 windows will only automatically enable PAE if an x64 capable CPU is present, this is due to the Pentium M not supporting PAE despite it being "new enough"). I also make this my paging file (the full 4096mb when possible, my system with this setup has 8GB RAM on x32 Xeon Gallatins).

[Behemot]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Why don't you just upgrade to Irwindales? Wanna two pieces of SL7ZB?

[Heihachi_73]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Looks like web security is now killing off old browsers just as fast as the current trend of "mobile-friendly" (aka "desktop-unfriendly") websites which cause their own form of incompatibility (via nested div tags and excessive use of javascript, which IMO is just as bad as making a website completely out of Flash).

A lot of HTTPS-based websites are now blocking older browsers (e.g. Firefox 12 - which was the last hope for Windows 2000 through XP SP1) depending on what security methods they use, causing Firefox to show an error page with "Cannot communicate securely with peer: no common encryption algorithm(s). (Error code: ssl_error_no_cypher_overlap)" and not even attempting to load the site. Of course, there is also the trend of sites performing a browser feature check just in case someone decides to spoof their user agent (e.g. Firefox 12 masquerading as a more recent version of Firefox or even Chrome), so not even that works these days.

[momaka]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

A lot of HTTPS-based websites are now blocking older browsers (e.g. Firefox 12 - which was the last hope for Windows 2000 through XP SP1) depending on what security methods they use, causing Firefox to show an error page with "Cannot communicate securely with peer: no common encryption algorithm(s). (Error code: ssl_error_no_cypher_overlap)" and not even attempting to load the site. Of course, there is also the trend of sites performing a browser feature check just in case someone decides to spoof their user agent (e.g. Firefox 12 masquerading as a more recent version of Firefox or even Chrome), so not even that works these days.

There is an option in about:config. I don't remember exactly what it's called, but I think it's "TLS version" or something similar. On older versions of Firefox that only support older TLS protocols, I think this option is set to either "0" or "1". Set it to "3". This will allow some websites such as Digikey actually work on these older browsers. Works for me for FF24. It doesn't work for websites that truly check/use this feature, though. But being able to see a few more websites is better than none at all.

Some websites recently (especially 3rd party US pay portals for bills) have started to check even the OS version before letting you use their website. I had one tell me that Windows 7 is the minimum supported OS (really? Not even Vista? ) and so the website cannot be accessed from that PC (which had XP), even though I had the same exact browser installed on another 32-bit Windows 7 PC.

I think web developers are completely retarded these days. Seems like there's hardly any websites left that don't use a shit-ton of scripts and load-as-you-go crap, alongside all kinds of tracking cookies. Only badcaps and a few oldschool html websites like sound.whsites.net (remember when the web all looked like that? ) are the only places you can still browse with just about any browser. (Heck, I think badcaps still works okay on IE6 and possibly IE4... for those of you who are dare devils. ) Google search also scales fairly okay with older browsers. But bing.com... then again, who uses bing or any of the MS web portals for that matter. I've started to use Yandex every now and then when Google is not playing nice with search results (and the frequency of that has been increasing steadily).

That's it, 64bit 478 CPU!

A diamond in the rough, eh?

This also works for those stuck with x32 CPUs and more memory than windows can utilize:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=247

Yup, I got that bookmarked when I need it. Planning to do new build this late fall / early winter with some cool SM hardware from TC ... with 4 GB of RAM and XP 32-bit, so I'll probably need this there.

[ratdude747]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Why don't you just upgrade to Irwindales? Wanna two pieces of SL7ZB?

I already have an irwindale system:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41187

She runs twin iriwindale 3.8Ghz's ... Sadly she wouldn't run right with paxvilles (I tried but unlike Topcat's clone of the system, I could only get 1 CPU to show up).

Also to my knowledge there are no boards that will run both irwindale and gallatin due to different FSB speeds. Supermicro X5___ was for Prestonia and Gallatin, X6___ was for Nocona, Irwindale, and for a few boards, Paxville.

BTW, neither is my true main system... I have two faster systems in service (Opteron X2 Italy's, and Hex core Xeon Westemere's) with a 3rd currently under construction (Low Voltage Xeon Harpertowns). These older systems are mainly for fun, although they do serve some purpose (the Gallatins are for the basement garage, and the Irwindales are for the living/dining room).

[ratdude747]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Yup, I got that bookmarked when I need it. Planning to do new build this late fall / early winter with some cool SM hardware from TC ... with 4 GB of RAM and XP 32-bit, so I'll probably need this there.

You'll want to do 8GB, they pretty much are giving away 2GB ECC DDR1 modules on ebay (assuming you have what I remember Topcat sending you). I bet you that for $20 you can get 4 of them shipped. If I'm wrong, you get my spare set of such that I bought for the aformentioned build (main rig V2.x) and didn't need.

[Topcat]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SL/SL7Q8.html

Yup. 1st Gen Prescott. Must have been an engineering goof (like SMP being enabled on the Celeron Mendocino, aka how the BP6 kicks ass). Sh*t happens, sometimes for the better.

Apparently good luck finding one. Not a single one on ebay....I have one s478 system left in my fleet group....this would have been a nice touch for it.

[Behemot]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

Well mine's available if you want it. Some ppl at CPU World said it was IBM custom and indeed, it came from "cheap" (in sense that it had this instead of even more expensive Socket 604) tower server/WS. Maybe I can pack some of my custom caps with it too?

What I would sometimes like to get for having fun with is system with (or capable of runing) Tulsa cores, you can get 7140M for like nothing in the US (it was priced at 1980 bucks a piece). I mean, 8c/16t machine with 4x16 MB of L3? That huge cache should helf tremendously with that FSB/frequency bottleneck. Just need to run it only during winter, lol.

Well, only have some four-way AMD Opteron 940 system for now, that should actually still be usable, up to eight K8 cores and at least 32 GB of RAM…

[stj]

Re: Modern browsers on legacy PC's (Split thread from PSU hall of shame)

that rare p4 may be a pain to use, you may have to patch the bios with the correct microcode.