Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

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  • zandrax
    Hit and miss
    • Dec 2007
    • 1157
    • Italy

    #41
    Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

    Originally posted by gdement
    So what's wrong with the Biostar AMD761 board mentioned earlier in the thread? I don't see why that won't work.
    Simply beacuse it's a mixed brand solution: AMD 761 northbridge and Via 686B southbridge.
    Mixed brand chpsets means two things:
    - the manifacturer spared a few cents by using a lower priced, pin compatible southbridge. This usually happens on cheaper micro-atx boards, and most of time the oem cuts on other parts too (capacitors' brand and capacity, vrm section, lower quality pcb and solderings, minor brand ICs ...);
    - you can get easily troubles in installing chipset drivers: usually all-in-one chipset drivers for Windows install both northbridge and southbridge drivers. If you are lucky drivers don't fight with themselves but you should expect lower performances than a single brand solution, because low level parameters such as Pci timings are optimized for the last one. Linux drivers, on the other hand, relies heavily on chipset identification: non standard solutions can be easily misidentified, leading from low performances to data corruption or kernel panic at boot.

    This applies on single brand, mixed old and new solutions as well: I remeber a few unreliable socket 7 boards with a Via MPV3-like northbirdge [seems an older revision] and a MPV2 southbridge. Both linux and windows drivers corrupt any data if Dma transfer is used, because they misidentify for a real MVP3 board and MVP3' way of dealing with Dma is different from the MPV2' one. Forcing the old Pio mode transfer avoids this issue, but it's so sloooooow.

    Zandrax
    Have an happy life.

    Comment

    • gdement
      Badcaps Veteran
      • Jan 2007
      • 690

      #42
      Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

      Chipsets on the Athlon are less than perfect, but I think the AMD761-VIA combo is as good as anything else you'll find. Only the AMD northbridge offers registered ECC support, which is a point in it's favor despite being a mixed solution. A full AMD chipset would be nice but it just isn't out there unless you get a server board. Full VIA is an option, but personally I think that's a downgrade from having an AMD761 in there. I've been reasonably happy with the nForce2 but I did have to disable the nVidia IDE driver to fix some weird CDROM problems on it. I haven't made extended use of an AMD761-686b-HPT370A, but from setting them up and stress testing them I haven't noticed anything wrong with them. I'm about to set one up that will stay in the family so if I'm wrong I guess I'll eventually find out.

      One errata I do remember reading for this combo is that Suspend-To-RAM is broken, so it should be disabled in the BIOS.

      The AMD761-686b combo is really the only setup that was offered on consumer AMD760 boards, so I'd be surprised if OS software isn't aware of it. The northbridge-only driver can be found here:
      http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...6~4233,00.html

      I don't know if the VIA driver would be hard to install correctly or not, but I don't think it even needs to be installed at all. For disks, I'd just use the standard Microsoft IDE driver or else use the onboard HPT370A. The Microsoft driver will still run in DMA mode as far as I can tell, and it seems more reliable than many proprietary drivers.
      On the EP-8K7A+ boards I've set up, I just use an F6 floppy to install Windows on the HPT370A, and then install the AMD761 northbridge driver. I don't make any special effort for the 686B southbridge, but newer WinXP discs might already come with that driver, not sure.

      Comment

      • zandrax
        Hit and miss
        • Dec 2007
        • 1157
        • Italy

        #43
        Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

        Originally posted by gdement
        Chipsets on the Athlon are less than perfect, but I think the AMD761-VIA combo is as good as anything else you'll find. Only the AMD northbridge offers registered ECC support, which is a point in it's favor despite being a mixed solution. A full AMD chipset would be nice but it just isn't out there unless you get a server board. Full VIA is an option, but personally I think that's a downgrade from having an AMD761 in there.
        You are right: it's the only chipset supporting registered ddrs.

        One errata I do remember reading for this combo is that Suspend-To-RAM is broken, so it should be disabled in the BIOS.
        Apics' write snoop is a bit buggy too, but it should only hurt performance very little.

        The AMD761-686b combo is really the only setup that was offered on consumer AMD760 boards, so I'd be surprised if OS software isn't aware of it. The northbridge-only driver can be found here:
        http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_2336~4233,00.html

        I don't know if the VIA driver would be hard to install correctly or not, but I don't think it even needs to be installed at all.
        You may be right about the combo, but Via drivers should be used, because they have to program 686B's buggy timings and ato void Irq conflicts: each Via 4in1's version has something different form others, so pentium should try every version until he finds the one which work with no or little collateral effects.

        Zandrax
        Last edited by zandrax; 01-07-2008, 04:43 PM.
        Have an happy life.

        Comment

        • pentium
          Badcaps Legend
          • Mar 2006
          • 2778
          • Canada

          #44
          Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

          Okay, here is one last question.

          Did they ever build a board (ATX or proprietary) that accepted four of these and also had one ISA slot? AGP (or AGP pro) is not necessary (but might be nice) and so long as it does not use RDRAM I'm okay in the way of ram. Just put the image of SGI's VW 540 in your mind but then make it less proprietary and add a single ISA slot.
          Find Nedry!


          Check the Vending machines!!

          <----Computer says I need more beer.

          Comment

          • PCBONEZ
            Grumpy Old Fart
            • Aug 2005
            • 10661
            • USA

            #45
            Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

            No they didn't.
            Only the 100MHz FSB P3 Xeons supported more than 2 CPU's per system.
            Those maxed out at 900MHz I think.
            Mann-Made Global Warming.
            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

            -
            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

            - Dr Seuss
            -
            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
            -

            Comment

            • PCBONEZ
              Grumpy Old Fart
              • Aug 2005
              • 10661
              • USA

              #46
              Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

              http://www.intel.com/support/process.../CS-022664.htm

              You would be looking for a board with a 450NX chipset to get 4 CPU Xeon P3.
              http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/mature/450_440.htm
              Uses PC100 or EDO. [8GB max]
              UMDA33 drives. [Probably want a controller card.]
              Mann-Made Global Warming.
              - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

              -
              Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

              - Dr Seuss
              -
              You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
              -

              Comment

              • PCBONEZ
                Grumpy Old Fart
                • Aug 2005
                • 10661
                • USA

                #47
                Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                There are probably others.
                I didn't look that hard.
                Note: The last two have ISA.

                SuperMicro S2QR6
                CPU type: QUAD Slot-2; Chipset: ServerSet HE; Memory: PC100;
                PCI (64 bit / 66 MHz / 3.3V): 8;
                DIMM: 16; ATA/33; SCSI: U160; Ethernet; Video; no USB; Form: WTX.
                (Memory on daughter board.)

                SuperMicro S2QE6
                CPU type: QUAD Slot-2; Chipset: ServerSet HE; Memory: PC100;
                PCI (64 bit / 66 MHz / 3.3V): 6;
                DIMM: 16; ATA/33; SCSI: U160; Ethernet; Audio; no USB; Form: ATX.
                (Memory on daughter board.)

                AMI MegaPlex II
                CPU type: QUAD Slot-2; Chipset: 450NX; Memory: PC100;
                PCI (64 bit): 4; PCI (32 bit): 3; ISA: 1;
                DIMM: 16; ATA/33; Video; Form: Other.
                (Memory on daughter board.)

                AMI MegaPlex
                CPU type: QUAD Slot-2; Chipset: 450NX; Memory: PC100;
                PCI (64 bit): 12; ISA: 2;
                DIMM: 32; ATA/33; Video; Form: Other.
                (Two boards plus a daughter board for more memory.)
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment

                • pentium
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 2778
                  • Canada

                  #48
                  Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                  Well I guess a little slower might be made up by the multiple processors.
                  Thanks Bonez.
                  Find Nedry!


                  Check the Vending machines!!

                  <----Computer says I need more beer.

                  Comment

                  • PCBONEZ
                    Grumpy Old Fart
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 10661
                    • USA

                    #49
                    Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                    Keep in mind that if the applications are not designed to take advantage of multiple CPU's then using them won't do you a lick of good.
                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                    -
                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                    - Dr Seuss
                    -
                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                    -

                    Comment

                    • zandrax
                      Hit and miss
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 1157
                      • Italy

                      #50
                      Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                      Moreover your P3 Xeons (SL4HE) are certified for the 440GX only, which supports up to dual cpu configurations. That's because the original Cascade core is based on the P3 Coppermine one, which is SMP but limited to 2 cpus; other revisions, called Cascade 2 MB becuase their L2 cache ranges from 1 to 2 MB, allow up to 4 cpus but are different. The Processorfinder page is useful to detect them and to look their notes: version certified for single or dual cpu boards are more likely not recognized from 4 cpu ones.

                      Zandrax
                      Last edited by zandrax; 02-09-2008, 01:12 PM.
                      Have an happy life.

                      Comment

                      • pentium
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 2778
                        • Canada

                        #51
                        Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                        Oh well it was worth a try.
                        I guess I will have to stick with my dual PII than.
                        Find Nedry!


                        Check the Vending machines!!

                        <----Computer says I need more beer.

                        Comment

                        • bgavin
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 1355

                          #52
                          Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                          I have a large number of KG7 and 8K7A boards in client machines. Both use the AMD-751 and VIA 686 combination. FTR, after a long and unsatisfactory relationship, I just plain dispise VIA chipsets and won't use them anymore.

                          That aside, the above AMD/VIA combination does work very well. Every single one of these boards fails Memtest86 Test #5. Without seeing the Memtest source, I have no clue why, but all boards run fine otherwise. I recapped these boards and expect them to last for years.

                          I shifted over to MSI K7N2 Delta for Socket 462. These are great boards... 400 FSB, 3200+ support, decent caps. Unfortunately, no 4-hole mounts for the big Alpha PAL8045 heatsinks. IMO, these are outstanding for 462 hardware. I understand the nForce2 chipset has some performance issues with dual-memory controller functions, but the boards are very stable in operation.

                          Comment

                          • PCBONEZ
                            Grumpy Old Fart
                            • Aug 2005
                            • 10661
                            • USA

                            #53
                            Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                            Originally posted by pentium
                            Oh well it was worth a try.
                            I guess I will have to stick with my dual PII than.
                            Won't give you an ISA slot but you might wanna look at Dual P4 based Xeon boards. 533FSB variety. On the corporate upgrade cycle they have reached the "end of usefull life" status and so maore and more are flooding into the market.
                            .
                            The CPU's are getting cheap already.
                            (I've seen PAIRS of 2.66GHz go for $25.)
                            (I have a PAIR of 2.8GHz I won (eBay) for $45 total.)
                            If you are patient you can score a board for $50 or less.
                            Memory is still a bit pricey but not THAT much different than other kinds.
                            (They use DDR Registered.)

                            .
                            Mann-Made Global Warming.
                            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                            -
                            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                            - Dr Seuss
                            -
                            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                            -

                            Comment

                            • pentium
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Mar 2006
                              • 2778
                              • Canada

                              #54
                              Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                              If it lacks the ISA port it is totally useless to me.
                              Find Nedry!


                              Check the Vending machines!!

                              <----Computer says I need more beer.

                              Comment

                              • PCBONEZ
                                Grumpy Old Fart
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 10661
                                • USA

                                #55
                                Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                                Not cheap but there are at least two P4 boards with ISA slots.
                                Soyo made one. (Plan on recapping that one.)
                                I'll probably remember the other one when I'm somewhere else.
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment

                                • PCBONEZ
                                  Grumpy Old Fart
                                  • Aug 2005
                                  • 10661
                                  • USA

                                  #56
                                  Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                                  http://www.tyan.com/archive/products...thunderhe.html
                                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                  -
                                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                  - Dr Seuss
                                  -
                                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                  -

                                  Comment

                                  • pentium
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Mar 2006
                                    • 2778
                                    • Canada

                                    #57
                                    Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                                    That's it! It's perfect!
                                    It even has built-in scsi as an added bonus!
                                    Find Nedry!


                                    Check the Vending machines!!

                                    <----Computer says I need more beer.

                                    Comment

                                    • zandrax
                                      Hit and miss
                                      • Dec 2007
                                      • 1157
                                      • Italy

                                      #58
                                      Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                                      Originally posted by zandrax
                                      I agree: I've found a Tyan Thunder HEsl (S2567), a dual P3 board with an Agp Pro and an Isa slot, but its chipset supports only registered Sdram. Boards which require registered ddr don't have the Agp or the Isa slot, so pentium is a bit out of luck.

                                      Zandrax
                                      I quote myself because I already found this board on january the 2nd but it was discarded becuase it's a P3 solution and we were looking for Athlon mobos [damn *ç°"!&%£$"!)=!£)(!£"*é*DU{§§"E£"Y/ ] : it's a dual socket 370, not a dual slot 2 one, you can't use your Xeons.
                                      So, pentium, be sure you are plenty of 1000EB (you can't put Tualatins in this board) and registered SDRAMs.

                                      Zandrax
                                      Have an happy life.

                                      Comment

                                      • PCBONEZ
                                        Grumpy Old Fart
                                        • Aug 2005
                                        • 10661
                                        • USA

                                        #59
                                        Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                                        I couldn't find a Tualatin dual with an ISA slot.
                                        The slot and upgrading from P2 seems to be the big issue.
                                        For that dual coppermines should be a significant upgrade.
                                        (Plus it has 64-bit PCI slots so a fast IDE or SCSI RAID controller is a shoe-in.)
                                        -
                                        I didn't look for AMD, they might have something similar with an ISA.
                                        I don't dislike AMD, just haven't used them for a long time so my knowledge of what goes with what is lacking on the AMD side.

                                        .
                                        Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                        -
                                        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                        - Dr Seuss
                                        -
                                        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                        -

                                        Comment

                                        • zandrax
                                          Hit and miss
                                          • Dec 2007
                                          • 1157
                                          • Italy

                                          #60
                                          Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

                                          Not your fault PCBONEZ: I got [a bit] mad because I though employing pentium's xeons was mandatory while it isn't. Then, funny enough, you found the same board I had found a month ago for this thread - perhaps there is only a limited choice of good dual socket boards and we catched all of them.
                                          However, I'm not really mad - at least, no more

                                          Zandrax
                                          Have an happy life.

                                          Comment

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