Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

[pentium]

These are for my thought only and currently have no connection to the other thread I have going in another part of the forums.

Anyways:
-Did they ever build a motherboard that had both an AGP Pro slot and an ISA slot?
-Did any of these boards support Registered DDR or Sdram? (that cheap crap you find on ebay)

Or...

-Did they ever build a motherboard that had an AGP 2.0 slot next to a PCI 2.1 slot (to run a Wildcat 4000) and also have at least one ISA slot?
-Could it work with registered DDR or Sdram?

I have an idea.

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

These are for my thought only and currently have no connection to the other thread I have going in another part of the forums.

Anyways:
-Did they ever build a motherboard that had both an AGP Pro slot and an ISA slot?

They seem to exist: most Pentium 3 Asus boards have an Agp Pro connector, few of them (i.e. the P3C-E or the CUV4X vanilla version) have even one Isa slot.
I've found a Soltek SL-75KAV Athlon board who has both, but it should be quite rare nowadays.

-Did any of these boards support Registered DDR or Sdram? (that cheap crap you find on ebay)

You should look for hi-end workstation or server boards: I doubt most desktop mobo could support Registered ram, in addition they are not so cheap and boards are usually picky about them.

Or...

-Did they ever build a motherboard that had an AGP 2.0 slot next to a PCI 2.1 slot (to run a Wildcat 4000) and also have at least one ISA slot?
-Could it work with registered DDR or Sdram?

I have an idea.

The Wildcat is an Agp accelerator and a Pci board joined togheter, but you shouldn't use the Pci slot near the Agp one because they share the same Irq in most cases and tend to block the airflow.
Unless the cable between the two boards is really short, I think the Asus Cuv4x should work: it supports only standard Sdram [no registered], but this kind of memory is far more available than the Rdram the P3C-E requires.

Zandrax

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

Update:

- Biostar made an Athlon mobo, the M7MIA, who has both Agp Pro and Isa slot. It's based on the old-but-good Amd 760 chipset and requires DDR memory; unfortunately, its southbridge is a Via 686B and mixed brand chipsets aren't as stable as a single brand solution, so I don't recommend this one unless you have found nothing else available;
- the Cuv4x uses the Via 694 chipset, which was the first chipset to offer an Agp 4x. Unfortunately, its implementation was a bit buggy and may corrupt some data at 4x speed. In the bios you can set the Agp speed at 1x, 2x and 4x in order to improve its reliability: it limits only throughput, the slot is Agp 2.0 compliant so you can use any Agp 1x, 2x and 4x card. Last but not least, the southbridge is the Via 686A: it's a bit slover than the 686B (i.e., the controller is Ata 66 vs Ata 100), but it is rock solid while the 686B had some timing trouble that could corrupt data on high-bandwith Pci devices (hard disk controller, video capture devices, even the SB Audigy ). Nevertheless, most troubles have been corrected or workarounded througth bios and driver updates and most Via based motherboards are reliable nowadays.

Zandrax

[pentium]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

Hmmm.
As much as I don't like it, the M7MIA does what I want.
It's fast (I can drop my spare 1.3Ghz Athlon in it) and at the least it supports DDR ram.
I was planning on fitting a 3DLABS Wildcat 4110 into the AGP pro slot and just running Windows 2000 Professional on the board with a 60Gb ATA hard drive.

The problem now is finding one.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

If you dig far enough you can find about anything.

There are a lot of "Industrial" motherboards manufactured that no one ever hears about and that come in odd-ball (and sometimes very cool) configurations.

I've run across socket 370's that use DDR memory.
- The chipset was a VIA CLE266 which was intended only for embedded processor boards (CPU soldered on) but some companies that build Industrial MoBos went and slammed a skt 370 ZIF socket in their MoBo versions.
http://www.global-b2b-network.com/b2...therboard.html
http://www.ibase.com.tw/ib781.htm


I've seen several P4's that have ISA slots.
http://www.ibase-i.com.tw/mb800.htm
http://us.kontron.com/index.php?id=2...productid=1394
http://www.embeddedstar.com/press/co...dded14772.html
http://www.soyo.com/product/search/1...GVISA_Plus/272
I think Gigabyte made one too.

Point is.
If you think of it and it's even possible then it's probably out there somewhere if you look in the unusual places.

.

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

PCBONEZ, I agree industrial boards can be interesting sometimes, but very few of them have an Agp slot and a strict subset of these have an Agp Pro one: they are, as you wrote, industrial boards, so the real issues are stability and reliability over time, the video output isn't that considered.

Since the Agp Pro is a superset of the Agp 2.0 (4x speed), pentium should look for Pentium 3 and Athlon motherboards manifactured between 1999 and 2001.

I don't know if the Isa slot is really mandatory: you can find a lot of motherboards which carry the Agp Pro slot, and a lot more which have one or more Isa slots, but very few have both at the same time.

Most seems to be Pentium 3 boards: the Asus Cuv4x vanilla and the P3C family (the -E, the -LS nad the -M models), an infamous Arima SDVIA dual 370 [infamous because it has the Via 694X northbridge, which is good thing, and the old 586 southbridge, which is bad thing because it was intended to support the 693 and *not* the 694 family: never buy mixed design chipset, the manifacturer could save some cents by doing it but it couldn't save any driver trouble when you buy the board. Linux support troubleshooting docet], the Gigabyte GA-6CXC7 and perhaps some others I never heard of.

The only Athlon models I could find are the Soltek 75KV2 and the Biostar I mentioned: I think the Soltek is a bit better than the Biostar, at least it has a decent chipset. If you can find it, buy it.

Zandrax

[gdement]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

The M7MIA does look like a perfect match for what you're looking for.

90% of finding registered memory support is to look for the right chipsets. For Slot-1/370 you need a 440BX, for Athlon you need an AMD760 series, for P4 I don't know.
Much to my annoyance, if you want a registered ECC Athlon system you're stuck with DDR266 and a VIA southbridge. Nothing faster than the AMD761 supports that type of memory, and outside the really expensive server boards you can't get away from the VIA southbridge. As far as I can tell, there aren't many options on the P4 side either but I don't know as much about those.

The Wildcat is an Agp accelerator and a Pci board joined togheter, but you shouldn't use the Pci slot near the Agp one because they share the same Irq in most cases and tend to block the airflow.

I'm not familiar with the Wildcat specifically, but I'd expect cards like that are probably designed to run in adjacent slots. I had an older HP Visualize FX4+ which was built this way, and it naturally worked as it should at least in the HP system it came with.

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

Motherboard list update for P3s:

- Asus Cuv4x-V (a Cuv4x derivate with integrated video, but it still has the Agp pro slot);
- Rhino VA694T-ACP [never heard of, seems a rebranded one];
- Tyan Thunder HEsl (S2567): this is an hi-end, dual 370 server model and has an Agp Pro, but I think is Agp 1.0 compliant (they declare only 1x and 2x support). By the way, it was mainly used into cluster servers, it should be extremely rare on the retail market.

For Athlons:
- a lot of Soltek boards: 75JV, KV, KAV and MV families;
- the EPoX 8KTA3+: I know, it's an old-school Epox board and its capacitors are probabily bad, but it shows a 6-way VRM besides some other bell & whistles (i.e., a POST lcd soldered onboard and an Highpoint fake-Raid controller). Like the Soltek boards, it's based on the venerable Via KT133A chipset, the last of the Sdram generation.

The Via 686B southbridge seems to be the last one directly supporting an Isa slot [the Asus P3C is based on the Intel 820, which doesn't support Isa anymore; Asus was forced to use a Pci-to-Isa bridge], so you are stuck with its Via KT133[A] brother or with the Amd 760 Biostar mobo.

Zandrax

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

My only point was if you can think of it, it is probably out there.
But thanks for the commentary anyway.
Now I'll correct part of it.

AGP 2.0 Spec is not AGP 4x.

AGP 2.0 Spec includes AGP 1x, 2x, and 4x speeds using either 1.5v or 3.3v (or both) for the signaling voltage.

There are three kinds of AGP Pro slots.
- AGP Pro 1.5v ONLY
- AGP Pro 3.3v ONLY
- AGP Pro Universal (Supports both 1.5v and 3.3v)
[ Here the volts refers to the signaling voltage, not the power to the card. ]

Better check what is on the board before you fork over cash if you have a particular card that you want to run.

The only difference between a regular AGP slot and an AGP Pro slot are the added connectors. All of those added connectors are used for power.
-
A regular AGP card with a connector for power in from the PSU will do exactly the same thing.

.

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

PCBONEZ, thanks for your explanation.

According to this page, the 3.3 and 1.5 v signals require notchs in different places.

The picture present in the Wildcat 4110 manual seems to have a 3,3v key hole [page 37]; unfortunately, specifics aren't as detailed as they could be, they simply states the Wildcat requires an Agp Pro slot and operates at 2x speed [page 35].

I known for sure that Asus had a crush for Agp Pro those years and their motherboards features an universal slot, so there should be no troubles here; other brands could use universal slots too, but you should check every board.
If reviewers' photos are trustworty, the Epox 8KTA3 has an universal slot and the Soltek 75KAV-X has it too.
The photo of Biostar M7MIA is not so clear and the manual doesn't specifiy it, so I'm unsure if it's an universal slot or not; BTW, i must correct myself as the Biostar's chipset is the Amd 761, not the 760 I previously wrote.

I hope this will suffice pentium's needs.

Zandrax

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

[...]
- the EPoX 8KTA3+: I know, it's an old-school Epox board and its capacitors are probabily bad, but it shows a 6-way VRM besides some other bell & whistles (i.e., a POST lcd soldered onboard and an Highpoint fake-Raid controller).

Another correction: the 8KTA3+ has a 3 phase VRM, I simply miscounted the regulators.

Zandrax

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

From what I am reading the "Wildcat 4110" can go into a regular AGP slot and only the "Wildcat 4110 PRO" needs and AGP-Pro slot.

Soooo, Pentium, which card do you have?
You said "Wildcat 4110" without the PRO on the end.
Which be it????

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

http://support.dell.com/support/edoc...u/en/specs.htm

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

I found this is an ad for a Pro version:
>> AGP Pro 50 interface (AGP Version 2.0 compliant) <<

AGP Pro 50 just means the Pro slot will handle 50 watts. 50 Watts was the lowest Pro variety so any with the right signaling volts will work.

Now know it's AGP Spec 2.0 so speed that could be 1x, 2x, or 4x but that doesn't matter much. - - You know it's keyed for 3.3v and needs a "Pro" slot if it's the "Pro" version of the card. That's really all you need. Just make sure the slot isn't 1.5v only.

And to clear up some confusion.
- It's not an AGP and PCI card joined together.
- It's an AGP card with a fan the sticks out so you can't install a PCI card next to it. - It takes up two slots worth of space but the PCI slot is empty.

Attached pic.

.

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

From what I am reading the "Wildcat 4110" can go into a regular AGP slot and only the "Wildcat 4110 PRO" needs and AGP-Pro slot.

Soooo, Pentium, which card do you have?
You said "Wildcat 4110" without the PRO on the end.
Which be it????

.

PCBONEZ, do you mean this one?
I think it's a typo: the Wildcat is supposed to draw more than 25W and less than 50W [limits of Agp and Agp Pro 50 standards], so a simple Agp version should have a molex connector, such as my old Voodoo 5 5500. I don't see any molex in the picture.

Zandrax

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

Wow, according to the Dell page PCBONEZ posted, the card should stress a lot the 3.3v line:

Power Requirements

• 50 W Maximum
• 12.0V 140 mA maximum
• 5.0V 1.8A maximum
• 3.3V 12.8A maximum

pentium, if you plan plugging this card into an Athlon board make sure your psu has at least 25 amperes at 3.3v and a really high 5 and 3.3v combined output.

Zandrax

[pentium]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

I don't know if the Isa slot is really mandatory: you can find a lot of motherboards which carry the Agp Pro slot, and a lot more which have one or more Isa slots, but very few have both at the same time.

The ISA slot is for one specific and VERY important piece of hardware. Without that slot I am unable to to the testing I need to do.
FYI, I have the Wildcat 4110 PRO (the APG PRO version) and the Wildcat 4000 (composed of an AGP card and a PCI card)
Registered DDR266 is no problem here as I have two 512Mb DDR266 sticks here that are just gathering dust. (this is why I was looking for registered DDR compatibility)

Link to manual for the 4110 PRO

I also attached the manual for the Wildcat 4000

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

The picture is a 'Wildcat 4110 PRO' and is APG Pro-50
So no Molex.

* 50 W Maximum
* 12.0V 140 mA maximum
* 5.0V 1.8A maximum
* 3.3V 12.8A maximum

* 12.0V x 0.14A = 1.68w
* 5.0V x 1.8A = 9w
* 3.3V x 12.8A = 42.24w
* = = = = => 52.92W

Tad over 50W but those are probably peak Amp values and the 50W # is nominal.

.

[zandrax]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

The ISA slot is for one specific and VERY important piece of hardware. Without that slot I am unable to to the testing I need to do.
FYI, I have the Wildcat 4110 PRO (the APG PRO version) and the Wildcat 4000 (composed of an AGP card and a PCI card)
Registered DDR266 is no problem here as I have two 512Mb DDR266 sticks here that are just gathering dust. (this is why I was looking for registered DDR compatibility)

That's ok: simply, I wanted you to get the picture.
There is no way you can use your registered DDRs unless you can find a workstation or a server board. It's much more realistic have a desktop board and some unregistered Sdram or Ddr memory.

The Wildcat 4110 requires an Agp Pro slot, so you are stick with the few boards I mentioned in previous posts. There could be some others I haven't found yet, it's true, but I think these ones are representative: they are Pentium 3 or Athlon boards, class 2000-2001, mainly based on Via chipsets [exceptions: the Biostar, which has only a Via southbridge, and the Intel based P3C, which features a Pci-isa bridge].

On the other hand, the Wildcat 4000 could be plugged in any Agp 1.0 or 2.0 slot: unless you want to compare the two cards on the same board, you could use any board with an Agp and a Isa slot you have at home, starting from Pentium II and Super-Socket 7 age (1997). Even a venerable Asus P2B could suffice, because the 4000 needs only a Pci slot near the Agp one and most boards have this layout [there are few odd mobos which have an Amr or an Isa slot near the Agp, but they are a minority].

Zandrax

-----
Tip: get a full tower case. The Wildcats are full-length cards and the hard disk cage of a Midi tower could block their insertion.

[pentium]

Re: Did such Mobo configurations ever exist?

I knew I had to get a full-height tower.
I love full length cards but my god it is a chore finding a case to fit them.

Thanks for the tips and I guess I can make a few sacrifices here and there to get the board I want.

EDIT: One thing that I have noticed with the 4000 is that it kills boards.
Excluding my Dimension 4100 it has killed the AGP slot on every board I have tried it in.