PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

[enigmatic]

I've been reading around http://www.circuittechctr.com

found it most interesting about what types of repair you can do to circuits but im looking for more information my board is a sony vaio i believe its double sided, not quite sure i get baffled and lost at this point but knowledge is power!

anybody know of any techniques to test, repair, look for faults?

what tools could i use to show me a diagnostic report (perhaps of the bad circuits)

and what would i look for that would need replacing?

any info would be a great help

thanks

also what job description would it come under when somebody studies and works this kind of career?

[willawake]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

well hell, this whole forum is about that kinda stuff. of course there are limits to what can be achieved without a hot air setup and expensive diagnostic tools.

what job description would it come under when somebody studies and works this kind of career?

i guess rework technician. degree in electronics would be a start.

if you are going to try to fix your board yourself then we are gonna have to see pics. there's a lot of good people here to help you. together we get things done.

if you want to learn this stuff then first learn good soldering and learn how to replace components without damaging them with too much heat. if you learn that then you can do some repairs easy using the info on the forum without really knowing much about electronics.

then learn how to spot components and know their purpose. then learn how to test them. learn how to read their values with what is written on them or what colour rings they have.

what i have seen is that a lot of failures of electronic devices are quite similar so once you get to know those its really useful.

one type of failure is something burning. which is what you have. so you have to figure out approximately the purpose of that burnt part, what circuit it is in. then you determine if there was a reason for that burning. cos you dont really want to replace it and it burns immediately again. or if you cant figure it out then you just go ahead and replace it and see if it works or blows. should also try to figure out if something is cooked down the line also.

all of computers is about investigating the symptoms and using process of elimination to find out what is the problem. look for visual fails, look for high temperature, check voltages if they are correct etc.

so you start with something broke and you repair it, and each time you repair something you learn something more and you get to research around the problem learning more info. i like learning practically rather than book learning which just goes in one ear and out the other. the joy of a good repair and the sadness of a personal fuck up really burns the experiences into the brain.

so we can start with your laptop if you like. that could be your first repair. dont be afraid to ask anything.

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

yeah i agree about visual learning, some people are best attainted to doing it that way.

i'll take some pictures in awhile but what do i aim to take?

i've noticed a few components a little black on the solder joint, i'll take a pic of that but i cant really see what else there is to take

if i take a close up of the whole board in high resoloution where can i host it?

imageshack accept high res pics?

thanks once again maybe it can be resurrected, if not i'll have fun trying

what tools would i use that are readily available, and not expensive and would help?

a multimeter?
solder iron (which type of wattage, and which solder to use)
de solder pump?
hmmmmm a trace pen for repairing trace?

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

dont know if you can tell, but there looks like burn marks on one of those chips.. what are thier jobs, what do they control/regulate?

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

circled the area

[tiresias]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

those chips.. what are thier jobs, what do they control/regulate?

They're transistors, possibly FET... Three pins and Qxxx PCB reference.

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

is it possible i could replace them? the board seems to have a membrame will it be possible to remove the chips and replace them easily?

what kind of extractor tool should i use
where would i get the replacment chip
what sort of solder technique should i use?
and finally what sort of solder equipment i have a 30w iron will that be ok?
and i have 100g solder - is that ok to use?

also a good guide to soldering

many thanks

[Galvanized]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

Hi, I new to hardware repair myself but I have done several things you have failed to do. Read/study this site, buy requiored basic tooling and practice on some salvage hardware, before attempting a must resurrect repair project.

My learning victim was a salvagable ASUS board and little did I know the solder used on this brand is a bit rougher to work with. Now it looks like Asusenstein but this is not a big deal because now I can really trash it before trying my hand at a couple of old GeForce cards.

I'm not trying to be rude or kill your enthusiasm. My strong suit is diesel repair and had to train several young guys to be competent at it. If they would do home study of repair manuals, this would be indicated in the types of questions they asked and the work ethic was maintained. If all they looked for were quick fixes and short cuts*shrugs*=grease monkey.

Will has posted a number of soldering tutorials. In finding them, you will experiance "the joy of discovery"
Here's a decent site, http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm

You must practice to learn. I've gone from a mid-19th century surgeon to an early 20th century dentist, in just several long sessions at the bench. I can gas and arc weld but soldering is it's own art.

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

im just worried this board wont allow me to renew any of the chips as its covered with some sort of membrame i think, the traces are underneath if you understand what i mean

if it is possible, would i need to desolder the chips then extract?
but what kind of tool do i use to extract them with? i've searched on ebay and the closest i've found is http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-28-Pin-Dip-I...QQcmdZViewItem

will this be the right tool to get the job done?

[Rainbow]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

circled the area

Check top marking of the transistor (can be also a diode or something othre) - usually a 2 or 3-letter code. You can look it up then here http://www.tkb-4u.com/code/smdcode/indexsmdcode.php
Then test it if it's really bad.
Transistors can fail without any visible signs or there can be a hole burned in the middle...

[gonzo0815]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

There is nothing wrong with your board, the "membrane" is a soldering stoping mask, which will protect the board from shorts during the flow soldering. The compnents yon the board are surface mounted devices, therefore there are only small solder pads. Additionaly most SMD devices will be glued to the pcb , otherwise they would fall of during the production prozess.
in generall, SMD devices and 3 or 4 layer pcb`s arent that good training stuff for soldering newbees. Your qestions let me conclue that you aren`t mutch familiar with anything soldering related. So if you realy want to fix that board on your own, learn something basic and use google for a elektronics beginner page and do some training. If this don`t suite your, let it repaired by a professionall or replace it.

[stretch0069]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

my board is a sony vaio i believe its double sided, not quite sure i get baffled and lost at this point but knowledge is power!

most likely, it is a multi-layer board. that means there are runs inside the board.....like a sandwich with different layers. at one time, it was practical to repair multi-layer boards, but nowadays, its not worth the trouble. For the cost of repairing, you could just buy a new board. Repair of multi-layer boards is a gigantic pain in the ass. Thats why no one does it anymore. Sorry for the bad news.

However, unless you decided to check the boards flight characteristics or verify the manufacturers thermal rating, I doubt you have to worry about any internal runs.......just the ones on the outside. Those are more easily repaired.

Also, most of the components on the MB are easy to replace, given the proper tools. Reflow stations (for BGA) can be a tad expensive. Also, for some of the smaller surface mount chips, you may need a magnifying glass and fine tips for your iron. I've had to do soldering using a microscope......it isn't fun.

It all boils down to money. How much you want to spend will determine how far you can go in repairs.

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

thanks for the advice thus far im learning a great deal.

what would i use to get the chips out could i just yank them with a tool such as a dip extractor? or would i need to desolder them?

and are those in the photos actually soldered in, they look very flimsly?

[stretch0069]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

do NOT just yank on anything.

they may "look" flimsy, but if you were to just grab one with a plier and pull, you will have a mess. There will be lots of lifted runs and pads for you to fix though.

An IC on a socket is quite obvious once you see one. I don't have a pic, but your BIOS ROM chip should be socketed. However, with that example, there are DIP (Dual Inline Package) and PLCC (I forgot what it stands for ) If there are pins down two sides, its DIP...around all four side, its PLCC.

When desoldering anything, there are two ways....destructive and non-destructive. Back in the day when I was a USMC Navaids Tech, we would just clip the DIP leads, iron and pliers to remove the pins, use a solder sucker to clean out the holes, and then pop in a new chip and solder away. Thats the destructive way. An example of non-destructive; I replaced a DIP here the other day and used a nice desoldering station. Removed the solder at the pins and then gave each pin a little wiggle and out it came. Popped in the new chip, soldered, and all was well. (I prefer to do it this way)

Its mostly a matter of preference on how to remove thru-board components. When you get into surface mount it gets touchier, and when you step up to reflowing BGA and the like, well....I haven't gone that far yet.

Like everyone else has said, its a matter of practice. Start small and work your way up. Remember.......baby steps.

[Chris1992]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

PLCC = Plastic Leaded Chip Carrier.

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

i see so those chips in the pics i gave are DIPs? im just waiting on a de solder tool and i'll see what i can do

doesnt matter if i mess up really the board is probably dead so its a practice board either way

hmmm what tool to remove the chips a dip extractor?

[stretch0069]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

i see so those chips in the pics i gave are DIPs?

no.........as tiresias said....."They're transistors, possibly FET... Three pins and Qxxx PCB reference"

they are just surface mount transistors.

hmmm what tool to remove the chips a dip extractor?

if you are refering to the above transistors, no. you will have to very carefully heat the solder until it flows and then carefully lift the leg with a fine dental pick. The key word here is CAREFULLY. You can very easily pull up the pad. Do the side with only one lead first. Then the other two....CAREFULLY.

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

thats great news thanks

what kind of tip should i use for the solder would my 30w iron be OK?

i've searched for some tips on ebay and havent found any that look up for the job, is there a part name for them?

thanks a bunch guys this is helping so much

[kc8adu]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

first you have to know what the devices are.then find out what killed them unless you wanna see the smoke leak out of the new ones.google marsport smd codebook.
those are a sot23 case and are bricks compared to what i work on everyday.
i can change both in about 5 minutes blindfolded.

[enigmatic]

Re: PCB board repair - anybody ever tried/done it?

Ok, but im really wanting to find out the tools i'll need first - will a multimeter do the job of testing?

also if i find a bad chip, how in the world will i know what made it go boom?!

confusing but im getting there, so bear with a lil

also what kind of tips will i use and what kind of solder sucker would it be?

stupid questions i know but its a start