SSD recommendations

[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

I also find your talk of optimisation strange. If you're loading up say, Word 2010 (Which is far faster on an SSD) it doesn't really matter if the CPU is a celeron (I mean core 2 duo based and above, not the netburst crap) or a Core i7 2nd generation 8 core monster.

A CPU with more cache or a faster FSB will give you much more improvement with MS Office [and most other things] than using a faster drive.
Once the program has started the performance is all about 'talking to' the files in RAM and the HDD doesn't have much to do with it until you save.
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

It's the reason why a laptop drive running at 4200rpm feels slower than a 7200rpm drive despite the 4200 perhaps being newer and having greater platter density (and hence the maximum thoroughput is greater).

[On laptops. If you still have a 4200RPM in a desktop you have other problems.]
The 4200RPM is a bottle neck so 7200RPM helps but you'll generally run into other bottle necks after 7200RPM so a yet faster drive is usually pointless.
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You would have to look at what bus the chipset in the laptop is using to know if it will make any difference and a lot of them cheap-out and use an old PCI bus for drives to 'cost them down', so anything over 133MB/s is a wasted effort.
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[shovenose]

Re: SSD recommendations

Office opens very fast if you've got 24 SSDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96dWOEa4Djs

[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

I know it's the HDD because the little HDD light is always going crazy...

That's a symptom of poor configuration and tuning.
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Have you looked up what bus your laptop uses for the drive?
That will tell you your system's limit for drive throughput.
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[shovenose]

Re: SSD recommendations

SATA of course...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

Office opens very fast if you've got 24 SSDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96dWOEa4Djs

Let me know when you cram 24 SSD's into a laptop.
I want pictures too!
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[Rulycat]

Re: SSD recommendations

You don't get throughput until after latency is finished.
IOW: Latency time is part of and included in -actual- throughput.
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This is true, but I got the impression you seemed to be assuming large files which makes latency a non-issue compared to a large amount of small files.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

SATA of course...

SATA is not a bus.

[Rulycat]

Re: SSD recommendations

SATA is not a bus.

Wiki disagrees:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_di...and_interfaces

"Hard disk drives are accessed over one of a number of bus types, including parallel ATA (PATA, also called IDE or EIDE), Serial ATA (SATA), SCSI, Serial Attached SCSI (SAS), and Fibre Channel."

Now of course Wiki might be wrong. In which case, I don't know exactly what you're talking about.

[shovenose]

Re: SSD recommendations

Wiki disagrees:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_di...and_interfaces

"Hard disk drives are accessed over one of a number of bus types, including parallel ATA (PATA, also called IDE or EIDE), Serial ATA (SATA), SCSI, Serial Attached SCSI (SAS), and Fibre Channel."

Now of course Wiki might be wrong. In which case, I don't know exactly what you're talking about.

I thought bus= SATA, IDE, SCSI, etc... ???

[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

I thought bus= SATA, IDE, SCSI, etc... ???

No.
Bus = ISA, PCI, PCI-E, etc.

SATA, IDE, SCSI, etc. are interface chips at the end of the bus.

The bus is the freeway.
The interface chips [and chipset] are the on/off ramps.
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

Wiki disagrees:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_di...and_interfaces

"Hard disk drives are accessed over one of a number of bus types, including parallel ATA (PATA, also called IDE or EIDE), Serial ATA (SATA), SCSI, Serial Attached SCSI (SAS), and Fibre Channel."

Now of course Wiki might be wrong. In which case, I don't know exactly what you're talking about.

Those are not buses, they are interfaces.
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Interfaces convert data from one protocol to another.
Buses -move- data from one interface to another. They don't convert it.
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Should note that newer chipsets often don't use external interface chips but they STILL have the bus inside the chipset itself.
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Some twit might call the connection between a chipset with an internal SATA interface and a SATA drive a SATA bus, but it isn't.
That's just an interconnect within the SATA interface.
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[Rulycat]

Re: SSD recommendations

No.
Bus = ISA, PCI, PCI-E, etc.

SATA, IDE, SCSI, etc. are interface chips at the end of the bus.

The bus is the freeway.
The interface chips [and chipset] are the on/off ramps.
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Well that seems ridiculous to me, because by the same logic PCI-E is the interface chips between the CPU/Northbridge and the graphics card.

In any case, maximum thoroughput won't matter. 100mb/sec vs 200 isn't the issue.
The issue for him will be minimum thoroughput, which as you've established includes latency, so if he's running at 5mb/s at certain points because of high HDD latency it doesn't really matter even if it's PCI (assuming the PCI port has good latency too) because he needs it above what it is now at it's minimum point.

[Rulycat]

Re: SSD recommendations

A further investigation seems to reveal they're the same thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_..._Interface_Bus

An Interface Bus! Either they're the same, or the Interface is having their tax money spent on public transport.

[shovenose]

Re: SSD recommendations

OK now I'm really confused!

[dumpystig]

Re: SSD recommendations

... and I really couldn't give a fuck. I asked for advice but there's only so much credence can be given to particular specs/speeds/inputs/outputs etc... there comes a point where you just decide whether the specific part you're debating on getting will do for your needs or not.

Edit: And as it happens my new SSD suits me just fine. Thanks for the early advice before I made my purchase

[shovenose]

Re: SSD recommendations

I'm going to buy the SSD. I'm sure about that.
But I think we've gone past that. Justr trying to clarify the difference between interfaces, buses, etc...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

A further investigation seems to reveal they're the same thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_..._Interface_Bus

An Interface Bus! Either they're the same, or the Interface is having their tax money spent on public transport.

Yeah well, according to wikipedia the caps issues were over in 2004.
Interestingly I was seeing KZG, KZJ, and OST for YEARS after that and Capxon and the likes are still common in monitors.
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Yes it's a Serial Bus that connects Peripheral Interfaces.
That's what I just told you.
It's a Bus that CONNECTS Interfaces.
That doesn't make it an Interface.
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The +12v 'rail' on your motherboard is a DC bus that connects to the PSU to various VRs.
You could call it a 'PSU bus' or a 'VR bus' and that would be a non-standard but technically correct name.
But that doesn't make it a PSU or a VR.
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This is a really easy concept and standard basic terms.
If you really can't figure it out go read the official specifications for: PCI, PCI-E, SATA, IDE, etc...
You should be able to figure out what the words mean by reading those.
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

In any case, maximum thoroughput won't matter. 100mb/sec vs 200 isn't the issue.
The issue for him will be minimum thoroughput, which as you've established includes latency, so if he's running at 5mb/s at certain points because of high HDD latency it doesn't really matter even if it's PCI (assuming the PCI port has good latency too) because he needs it above what it is now at it's minimum point.

Tell me how much throughput you will get with an SSD through a standard PCI bus.
It's 32-bit at 33Mhz.
Does it matter now?
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: SSD recommendations

I will buy it just trying to convince PCBONEZ that they are useful additions to any PC

You'll get some improvement because you are starting with a 4200RPM [I think it was] drive.
But what you'll get over what a 7200RPM drive would do could be nill depending on what the rest of the system is.
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