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**shadow** · 08-17-2009, 05:48 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

For your first question, it does sound like badcap symptoms. A recap has a good probability of being successful. That is, fixing the issue that you are having.

Now your second question. Is the replacement board new or second hand? If it is second hand, it is likely to have the same problem or it may develop them very quickly after you install the new board into the system. The main argument against getting a new board is that the new board may suffer from the same problem in the future due to dodgy capacitors being used.

However it all comes down to time and cost. A new board is a good investment if it does not cost too much. It takes less time to fix than recapping a board and it is less likely to stuff up the job. However it would definitely be counter productive if you buy a second hand board.

**shadow** · 08-17-2009, 05:57 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Forgot to mention, check out the power supply. This is where many problems originate from.

Check the caps in the power supply as well. They may need replacing too.

**diitto** · 08-18-2009, 05:24 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Thanks Shadow... Appreciate the help... I am going to go ahead and give a shot at installing a refurbished Motherboard replacement... It's only $150 and it appears (might be famous last words) that changing out the motherboard isn't too hard a task... My biggest fear is removing the heat sink and processor from the old board and replacing that on the new... Beyond that, however, I just decided to risk $150 of the company's money and see if we can get some more time out of this existing PC... Money is tight where I work right now... They are more than willing to risk $150 to give this a shot as compared to forking over a couple thousand for a new machine... Plus I have a lot of useful software on my existing ATA drive (not SATA) that isn't easy to get loaded up again on a new machine so that's another motivation for trying to save my older ATA (EIDE) style machine.. If it doesn't work, the investment was small... I will let you guys know if changing out the motherboard and at least getting rid of this crop of clearly bad capacitors was the root of my problem... My guess is yes... We will see... thanks again for the feedback... bob...

**lucky13** · 08-18-2009, 08:32 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

diitto,

If you have a digital camera, you should take some pictures of the caps of the new board as well as the old board. This way, if you do decide to recap the old board and keep it as "spare", you have a good baseline. Hopefully, your pictures don't show the old and new boards both use the same brand of caps.

**Per Hansson** · 08-19-2009, 08:49 AM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Why not send it in to Badcaps for a repair if you don't feel up for the job?
Much cheaper than a new mainboard...

https://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=12

**diitto** · 08-26-2009, 11:50 AM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Hi... I work at a large, secure National Lab where sending out stuff like the motherboard out of my computer is suuuuuuuuuuch a headache... Now getting stuff in like a replacement motherboard isn't so hard... So that's why I haven't (yet) moved in the direction you suggest..

And granted, motherboard replacement is certainly NOT a slamdunk... Does the replacement motherboard work?? In my machine with my configuration??? Is that even my problem??? At least half my capacitors are leaking brown stuff out the top although none of them look swollen.. I did do a "dry run" to see if I could figure out how to remove and then replace the (same) motherboard.. It was quite easy as you guys I trust already know... I am still able to start the computer but it is getting harder and harder... The error I get is a VRM(0) error (Voltage Regulator Module)....

I do have one new question should I later try (if this replacement doesn't work) to desolder all these caps... My motherboard (f1262 in a Dell Precision 650) has an integral metal plate stood off but attached to the back of the motherboard... That metal plate would need to come off before you could even see the back of the board to get at the solder tabs.. Anyone know how that comes off??? I looked at the Dell support site that told me how to remove and replace pretty much everything but I see no mention of removing that plate from the back of the motherboard... Any ideas???

thanks... bob...

**Per Hansson** · 08-26-2009, 01:26 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

It's attached with only one screw, you slide it a bit on the plate and then just lift it off

**diitto** · 08-26-2009, 02:39 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Got it... Appreciate the help... thanks a lot... bob...

**diitto** · 08-28-2009, 01:31 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Hi... I think there might have been confusion from an earlier question of mine where I asked how to remove the plate from the motherboard... I meant the plate that on mine, an f1262 motherboard out of a Dell Precision 650 Workstation, fits over the back of the PC motherboard itself... Granted the entire assembly consisting of the motherboard and this backing plate comes out of the computer by the removal first of a single screw and then by lifting a couple tabs on this metal backing plate and then you slide the entire assembly out of the computer... But I now want to remove backing plate (metal) from the printed circuit motherboard... I first removed 9 screws, four from each of the two Xeon processor heatsink plastic capture frames (screws that I can see go through the circuit board and attach to this backing plate and then a 9th screw that is just off by itself elsewhere on the motherboard (not to be confused with the single screw that then holds the backing plate to the computer case).. But after removing those 9 screws, I still see that there are all these "ground clips" all over the place the come from this backing plate and come up through the pc board and attach to these metal fingers on the top surface of the board... Then there is the issue of how to detach the connector assembly (the place where all the rear computer cables plug in) that I can see has connection both to this backing plate and to the PC motherboard itself... How do I free all this so I could have access to the back of the PC board if I want to desolder caps???

Any help would be appreciated...

thanks... bob...

**diitto** · 08-28-2009, 03:10 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

OK, answered my own question... Removed the nine screws but it still had all these ground clips, etc., that seemed to be holding the pc board to the back plate... But by sliding the PC board slightly away from the back connector, it all broke free and I was able to separate the pc board from the aluminum back plate... Now I have to decide if I want to try to replace all the caps myself... thanks much... bob...

**ratdude747** · 08-29-2009, 09:46 AM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

how good at you at soldering and what are the tools you have to do so?

a refurb board might habve been recapped FYI. but then it might have not been. i'd personally recap or send it for recap if all possible.

**cap_out** · 01-04-2010, 03:25 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Hi Diitto,

My Dell precision 650 has the same problem. I have 6 leaky caps. My computer goes into power save mode and at times reboots by itself. I am considering replacing the motherboard. Dell support quoted a price of $529 whereas you mention purchasing a refurbished mother board for $150. Dell support also mentioned that I need the XM760 model number. Is your motherboard XM 760?

Do you know the difference between XM760 and F1262?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Best wishes
cap_out

**diitto** · 01-04-2010, 04:42 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Hi... I have not heard of that number, XM760... I did buy a new (refurbished) motherboard, installed it and it fixed my problems entirely... I also, while I was waiting for that new motherboard, separately bought new capacitors, replaced them on my original motherboard and that motherboard sits here in my office... The refurb'd one came in just before I finished recapping my original so the refurb'd one went in first... Since it works, I've been unwilling to explant it just to see if my recapping was successful...

But I did just now look at the original motherboard and on the front of the board along what would be the top edge of the motherboard if you peered in to look at it with your computer opened up (and I think it would be upside down so reading it when installed in your computer is a bit tough but my motherboard is just sitting here on a table so it's easy to just spin it around) I see the following number...

CN-0F1262-13740-355-003Q Rev A01

I don't know what all the other digits mean but note the 0F1262... I think that says my 650 Workstation came originally with this F1262 Motherboard.

When I bought the refurb'd one (and it's not easy for me to open the case and peer at it right now) I recall the numbers being similar but I do also recall that it was a Rev A02... That concerned me at first but it worked fine...

Actually it didn't work quite fine at first... When I hooked it all up and started the computer, the Primary IDE bus did not start up (the secondary one worked but not the primary)... It wouldn't boot because the boot drive was plugged into the primary IDE bus... However, when I moved that drive to the secondary IDE bus I was able to bring the computer up... Long story short it turned out to just be BIOS settings, that for whatever reason the primary IDE bus was just turned off... Once I figured that out and turned it on, everything worked just like the day the computer was new... So the refurb'd board worked totally...

I hope it's ok to say where I bought mine... I looked at the Terms and Conditions and didn't see where that would be a problem but someone please correct me if I missed something... Anyway, I bought that refurb'd F1262 Motherboard at

http://www.impactcomputers.com/f1262.html

They still show them there and available at $150... Do note as someone pointed out to me on this forum that likely a refurb'd board has caps that will one day leak again...

So if you can, open up your computer and look along the edge (with the external connections on the left, this would be the top edge from there, and again, the printing is likely upside down) and see if you have a part number that contains "0F1262" like mine does... If so, I'd say you have the same motherboard as I do...

Also go to the link for the refurb'd board and click on the picture (makes it larger)... You can see the printing (though too small to read) I am talking about in two white bands (one being the part number and one being the Rev number I mentioned above) near the upper left in that picture... Just go look at the same place on your installed motherboard and again, see if your's as "0F1262" as part of that longer number...

I will also say that though I don't recall the part number you mention, I do remember somewhere learning that "to buy my motherboard through Dell would cost me around $500" so my guess would be that it just costs more to buy the same thing from Dell... And maybe that (XM760) is just their internal part number for an F1262 replacement motherboard???

So I think you'll learn a lot by looking at your motherboard and noting whether or not 0F1262 is part of that number I mentioned...

Holler back as I'm curious to hear...

thanks... bob...

**cap_out** · 01-04-2010, 05:27 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Hi Bob,

Firstly, thanks a ton for your reply. The mother board part number in my dell precision 650 is CZ0-2K812-44573-34J-00CR. It was made in the czech republic. Coincidently I had found impact computers online and spoke to a guy who said that F1262 and 2K812 are basically the same thing. Impact computers also sell this 2K812 board for $150, so I ordered it. I think you are right in that XM760 is Dell part number.

Now I hope to be able to take my old mother board out and put the new one in without too my problems. Have my fingers crossed.

Thanks again...
Happy new year

**stj** · 01-05-2010, 04:44 AM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

"A02" is a dell bios revision.

did you check the caps in the psu?

if not then your new board may be taking a beating!

**diitto** · 01-05-2010, 03:59 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Hi Cap_Out... I looked up your part number on the Impact website and it sure looks similar to my board... And since you found that number and they had a board with that number that says it's for a Precision Workstation 650, I'd say you have the correct board...

Regarding taking out your old motherboard (I had never done such before I did this one) it turned out to be quite easy, though scary the first time... Assuming your's is like mine I will quickly summarize below but also point you to this very important dell page that likely you've seen but if not, don't miss it...

That page is at

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ws650/en/

and by clicking on the VIEW button next to the Service Manual tab (or you can also download it) you will be taken to this page,

http://support.dell.com/support/edoc...smen/index.htm

which will guide you through the steps needed to remove your motherboard (or as they call it, the "system board")...

Peruse that page and you will see links for things like "Removing the Microprocessor Air Flow Shroud", "Removing the System Board" etc.. I don't see or remember one that told me directly how to remove the two fans that blow air through the air shroud and onto the processors (2) although my computer only has one processor installed... They do have a procedure on the mentioned page for removing "Card Fans" but these are processor fans (different).. Anyway, they are easy (and maybe they don't even have to come off to remove the motherboard???)... I took mine off because it was easy to do and it made it easier to get at things...

Simple procedure is this...

1. Unplug..
2. Make sure you ground yourself... A ground strap is best but I cheated and just grounded myself a time or two or five before grabbing stuff...
3. Open the case where you can work inside.
4. Remove the big fan shroud (see Dell doc)
5. Remove the two fans that blow air through the just removed fan shroud. I'm working from memory here but you just lift them up or perhaps pull them toward you (?) and they pretty easily pop loose and lift right off the wall to which they are attached... So the fan will be loose and in your hand but still connected via its pair of wires and two wire connection. Pull that little connection and lay the fans aside... I marked all mine and drew a layout picture on my white board so I could make sure all was eventually returned to the correct place...
6. After the fans and their two, little connectors, I then count (I still have my picture on my white board) a total of 9 more wire bundles and associated connectors (from big IDE cables to little cables that do whatever (??)) I then removed by carefully pulling the connectors loose from the motherboard... Again, I suggest making a sketch and labeling by color code, with tape or however (??) what you remove from where... Some of the larger connectors (like IDE) I found easier to remove by first tugging near one side of the connector, then the other, then back and forth a little bit to sort of wiggle it free... It's easy once you get the courage to tug a bit... One of the nine cables on my board is one that looked like an afterthought the way it snakes from right to left across the board and is sort of just tucked in a void just above the memory boards... I'm just noting that because I made a picture on my sketch showing how that cable was routed cause it has to move out of the way when you pull out the board... I just wanted to be able to get it back where it was...

7. Leave the CPU (or CPU's if you have 2) where it is for now and also leave the memory boards... You will need to swap them out later but that is better left to be done with the motherboard out where you can work on it...

8. You might want to go ahead and pull the video card out now as it is pretty big and you might bump it around... Also remove any PCI cards or other external cards you might have installed in motherboard slots. My video card had this green, plastic "keeper" that prevents it from falling out accidentally... If you have one of those and if it gives you trouble getting it off so you can then remove the video card, post another question here and I will say more about what I did... Basically I played with it until I got it off but I can provide more detail if needed...

9. So with fan shroud, fans (if you decide to take them off as I did), video card and any other cards all removed and with all cables disconnected, next is to find the single screw that locks the motherboard in place... It is a single screw that is out on one edge of the motherboard. Definitely see the sketch in the above mentioned "Removing the System Board" to see where the screw is located (there are also some screws (9 on mine, 8 of which hold the two heat sink holders in place and one that is out on the board for reasons unknown) on the motherboard proper but leave those alone. Remove that one screw shown in the "Removing the System Board" picture. Once that screw is out, you can now grasp the entire motherboard and you need to jerk it (not terribly hard but with a bit of force) to pop it free... Jerk it in the direction needed to have the external connector panel move INTO the computer (the only way it could go). Between the back plate of the motherboard and the wall of the computer are a series of slots and tabs that hold the board in place... When you jerk it, it frees itself from these tabs and once it's free be sure to hold onto it as now it can fall over... At first I couldn't see how the external connector panel on the side of the motherboard gets free from the back of the computer housing but it just does... Once you see it happen you say "oh, I get it" but until you do it yourself, it's not obvious... When you put the new motherboard in you reverse this process...

10. Now you need to remove the memory and the cpu (and heat sink) to move that stuff onto your new motherboard. Remove the memory by reading "Removing a memory module" in the Dell doc... I noted which card went in what slot so I could put them back in the new board the same way..

11. The only scary part in this whole deal was freeing the heat sink from the processor (if you have two processors then you will have two heat sinks to remove)... Find the funny looking green clips that hold the heat sinks in position. There are two clips per heat sink. By all means read "Removing the Microprocessor" in the Dell doc... It shows the clips I am talking about... Pinch the tabs on top of the green clips (in the Dell doc those are the places marked with the number "2")... I found them to be sort of clunky and not trivial to get them to release but play and pinch and squeeze (pretty hard), even such that you might wiggle like you're thinking about breaking them (but don't) and they will come free... Again, just a bit clunky...

Now for the (modestly) scary part... The Microprocessor has a release lever that you will see on your new board that you can't get to on your loaded (old) board until the heat sink comes off... But the heat sink is almost certainly "stuck" with old and many times heated heat sink compound that they put on at the factory... I'm telling you this because no one told me.. Once I had the clips off and the heat sink remained tightly in place I very gingerly began trying to move it.. Suddenly it broke free and scared me half to death... It left some old compound on the lid of the processor and some on it's bottom side... I made sure I put it on in the same orientation when I put it back together so the old heat sink compound still "fit" together like it did before I tore it in two pieces... Also I did NOT put new heat sink compound on... I didn't find where it talked about doing so... Plus I don't have any so I put it back to together and it has run just fine for months... I also know that if you leave the fan shroud off and run the machine (yeah, I did that once), that the cpu gets way hot way fast and you know it because the fans come out full blast even though they have no shroud through which to direct air to the processor... I shut it down that day real quick and got the shroud back on... Big difference... Bottom line is my fans run very quietly these days all the time so I don't think I have heating issues because the fans would tell me if I did...

So wiggle gently on the heat sink... Twist a little... Maybe even tap a little (but hold on to it)... Within reason, do what you have to do to break the heat sink off the cpu.. If you have two cpu's do it twice... Set those aside...

12. Now it's time to remove the processors... Throw the little lever you will see right next to the cpu.. Throw it all the way from one side (where you will intially find it) over to the other side and CAUTION, once you do so the processor itself will now be very loose such that it will fall out if the motherboard is oriented such that it can do so... I made a note of how my processor was oriented in the plug but I later discovered mine at least is keyed such that it can only go in one way...

13. Now put all these components back in your new motherboard, put it back in more or less doing the reverse of all that has been said here, fire it up and see what you get... Recall that I said I had a settings issue that prompted me to need to do a step (easy once I figured out what was needed) to TURN ON my IDE 1 (primary) bus... For reasons unknown it was set to off when I first fired up this new motherboard...

OK, probably way more than you wanted to hear but I just went through all this so maybe I can be of some help to you...

Holler back if you have questions...

thanks.. bob...

**diitto** · 01-05-2010, 05:48 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Hi STJ... I did know that there are similar electrolytics in the power supply but I hadn't considered that they might be causing issues. I do note, however, that this is the second power supply in this computer... The original supply just quit one day (maybe due to cap failures??) about two years ago and I took another supply out of a similar computer that was being scrapped and it's worked fine since... Also, when I bought this new motherboard, I also bought a power supply at the same time but haven't put it in... Again, once I got the computer to work, I stopped making changes... But it sounds like you're saying bad things may be emanating from the power supply, like a lot of ripple perhaps... Understood and I appreciated the input... thanks... bob...

**stj** · 01-06-2010, 06:24 AM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

if the caps start to go in the psu then you get high ripple - as you noted.

this ripple wont usually stop the system, but the caps on the mobo will get a lot hotter trying to smooth that ripple out, and dry up a lot faster - or vent electrolyte onto the board.

**dathan-alley** · 01-25-2010, 12:05 PM

Re: Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Hello guys,

I know I am joining in the post late and all. But I have a couple of questions. I have 2 Precision 650's that I purchased at an auction. One worked great(had good caps) the other did not(had some bad caps). I looked at the caps on the bad one, and ordered new caps from eBay(around $10 for all). I am handy in soldering, so I thought I'd give it at shot. Before I replaced the caps the computer would not even boot. Now after I replaced them, I can load windows xp(new hdd) up to the point that it reboots to finish with the setup. And from that point on, it constantly reboots itself. It will power up and say windows is resuming setup, then it will shut off, and restart. If you power it off, and then back on it says it has had a fan failure and press F1 to continue. Press F1, same thing, it reboots again.

Anyway, Long story short(too late), I was wondering if anyone has actually had bad caps in their power supply. The next thing that I am going to try is to take the power supply out of the working 650, and put it in the non-working, and see if that fixes the restarting prob., then I'll know for sure. Maybe.

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Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

Lots of capacitors with leaking electrolyte

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