Capacitor brand identification?

[markusm]

I'm trying to fix a turntable that has a problem spinning up with out help, but not every time, sometimes it does fine on it's own. It has a brushless slotless motor, and some have mentioned It might just need a good cleaning/lubing. Since getting to all the levers in this TT requires removing the tonearm, and I'm not quite sure of my soldering skills to deal with those tiny little wires, I thought I might take a stab at replacing caps 1st. Plus if I understand the service manual correctly, it doesn't seem like any of the other levers should prevent the motor from spinning up.

Anyway, the strobe light also wavers back and forth when set to proper speed, which the manual says can be normal due to power fluctuations, but I have an identical TT that doesn't do it so I thought I'd start with the power supply caps.

In the attached picture, the small cap has a little "shield" at the top of the cap with no text in it... the larger cap behind it has the same shield, but contains the text "Nippon Chemi-con".

Am I correct that that shield is their logo? And these are both by the same manufacturer? Also, I noticed they still have a website. If I am able to find caps with the same values printed on the caps on the site, can I be confident that the unprinted values (ripple current, etc...) will be close enough or the same? It seems like it depends on the application as to how close you need to be on the specs on caps, at least from what I've seen so far.

anyway, here's the pic:

[selldoor]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

Small cap is a United Chemi-con as you have already suggested. I believe it is no longer available. The SL series was a general purpose cap and you should be ok with a Panasonic FC obviously the same voltage and uf values.
Other good make caps would also be good a few suggestions here

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38267

[stj]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

use panasonic FR, the lifespan is MUCH higher.

[selldoor]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

use panasonic FR, the lifespan is MUCH higher.

That is what I would have normally said but if you read the link I was almost slated for suggesting that - think the esr maybe too low

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

Thanks for the help guys. Stay tuned, I'm sure I'll have another one for ya soon. lol.

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

Actually, I have a couple more questions about these caps...

The larger cap is 25V 2200uf, but just above that the cap says CEO4W. Does that mean there's something different about that one?

Also, how close should ripple current be on these? I found a document on discontinued nc-c caps, and the replacements for the SL series is the SMG series... The SMG for the 16V 47uf is has a ripple current of 109 vs. 175 for the panasonic, the the 25V 2200uf cap, the SMG is 1540 vs either 2510 or 2490 on the panasonic.

I'd rather get the panasonics if they're better caps, just want to make sure I get the right thing.

[lexwalker]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

Small cap is a United Chemi-con as you have already suggested. I believe it is no longer available. The SL series was a general purpose cap and you should be ok with a Panasonic FC obviously the same voltage and uf values.
Other good make caps would also be good a few suggestions here

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38267

The new replacement from Nippon Chemi-con for SL series would be the SMG series. Alternatively if looking for standard ones with higher temperature specifications then can consider the KMG series. For long life, then the KY series (though its under low impedance type as well)...

That is what I would have normally said but if you read the link I was almost slated for suggesting that - think the esr maybe too low

Depends on where its being used. Quite often the ESR matters little in many places (ie. circuit will still function normally)...

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

I went ahead and ordered the SMG replacements. The larger SMG replacement doesn't appear to have CEO4W printed on it, but it's the only SMG replacement I saw.

[stj]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

ce04w means nothing.
it's for tracking if they had a bad batch.
the 04 for example is probably the year it was made.

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

ce04w means nothing.
it's for tracking if they had a bad batch.
the 04 for example is probably the year it was made.

thanks for that... I've been looking for an answer to that all day. That's in an old turntable, so I don't think it would be from 2004... At least I hope not... if someone's already replaced the caps then I'm wasting my time here.

I could check for sure since I have another identical turntable, but I don't feel like taking it apart right now to get to the power supply board.

Anyone know how long that SL series has been discontinued by chance?

*Edit*

It was bugging me too much, so I opened up the other TT and confirmed it does have the same capacitors *phew* so there's still a chance this could solve my problem.

[budm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

Is this Pioneer or Technics direct drive turn table, if they are, there are common problem with dirty speed selector switch that has bad contact resistance and cause the speed to vary as you can see with the built-in strobe light.

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

Is this Pioneer or Technics direct drive turn table, if they are, there are common problem with dirty speed selector switch that has bad contact resistance and cause the speed to vary as you can see with the built-in strobe light.

It's a Sony PS-4300. I've de-ox'd all the controls already. The music seems to play fine once it's spinning, but from time to time you have to give it a little push to get it to spin up. some times it does it fine on it's own.

Although, now I can't remember 100% if I de-ox'd the two speed control adjusters underneath the platter or not, but I know I did everything else I could find, and I'm fairly certain I did the two adjusters under the platter.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

"CEO4W" is a generic Japanese designation for a certain type of electrolytic capacitor. I'm guess it means radial leads, 85C. There is no way NCC/UCC was making the SL series in 2004. I'd guess late 70s or early 80s, and for its time it was a very good GP 85C series.

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

"CEO4W" is a generic Japanese designation for a certain type of electrolytic capacitor. I'm guess it means radial leads, 85C. There is no way NCC/UCC was making the SL series in 2004. I'd guess late 70s or early 80s, and for its time it was a very good GP 85C series.

Yeah, after checking the other turntable, I was sure they weren't newer caps. The turntable I believe was sold in the 70s if I remember right.

Just out of curiosity, what about CEO4W makes you think radial leads and 85c? I only ask because there's no R and no 85, and I wonder if that could help me in future identification.

[lexwalker]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

Just out of curiosity, what about CEO4W makes you think radial leads and 85c? I only ask because there's no R and no 85, and I wonder if that could help me in future identification.

Usually we don't look at that "CE04W", rather we concentrate on the brand (Nippon Chemi-con in your case) and model/series (that "SL" thingy) first. Then followed by the capacitance, voltage rating and size (usually the diameter and lead pitch). Using those, we then checked datasheets of the original capacitor (for specifications such as ripple current, temperature and maximum operating temperature) and compare them with current ones to find similar or matching replacements. Quite often the manufacturer has a chart showing compatible replacements for their EOL'ed capacitor series...

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

Usually we don't look at that "CE04W", rather we concentrate on the brand (Nippon Chemi-con in your case) and model/series (that "SL" thingy) first. Then followed by the capacitance, voltage rating and size (usually the diameter and lead pitch). Using those, we then checked datasheets of the original capacitor (for specifications such as ripple current, temperature and maximum operating temperature) and compare them with current ones to find similar or matching replacements. Quite often the manufacturer has a chart showing compatible replacements for their EOL'ed capacitor series...

Yeah, it's nice that these were pretty easy to identify, and that the company is still in business. I managed to stumble across the chart you're talking about while asking for help with this and got the recommended replacements. Which, by the way, were quite a bit smaller than the original caps... Especially the smaller of the two. When I 1st opened up the package I thought I'd somehow used the wrong part numbers (even though I double and triple checked before ordering).

I see now that I can just ignore the CEO4W markings... still curious as to what they mean and why they're on there though.

I replaced those two caps on the turntable but the issue remains, so I guess I'm just going to recap the entire thing. There's about 27 or 28 of the caps on the main board. Luckily all of the electrolytic caps in it are the same brand/series so I won't need a lot of research to find replacements, and hopefully the same place I ordered the last two will carry all of them. Digi-key and Mouser both had them listed as non-stock/special order.

[stj]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

i'd clean & re-lube the deck first.
specially as it's "sony"
they used a type of grease on vcr's that slowly turned hard like putty - they may have used the same crap on decks.

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

i'd clean & re-lube the deck first.
specially as it's "sony"
they used a type of grease on vcr's that slowly turned hard like putty - they may have used the same crap on decks.

I've cleaned it as much as I can, including taking the motor apart and cleaning it out and adding a little oil. I just added a little 3 in 1 oil as that was all I had lying around... but that had no impact.

If I understand the operation of the TT correctly, I'm not sure lubing of the "linkages", or whatever you'd call them, inside the TT would affect the motor spinning up. Even if I select manual operation, which I think would rule out the tonearm auto mechanism needing lubed, it still does it.

But, it doesn't do it every time. It might spin up fine 3 or 4 times before it does it again, then it begins to start turning a few inches and stops.

I also read a thread in another forum where another user with a similar model Sony fixed this issue by replacing all the caps. The reason I'm hesitant to take it apart to clean and lube, is that in order to get inside this thing you must remove the tone arm. I'm not at a point that I trust my soldering skills enough to try soldering those tiny little wires.

In fact, part of the purpose of repairing things lately has been to sharpen my soldering skills to the point I can confidently handle those wires.

[stj]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

how does the motor couple to the deck platter, is it an idler wheel?

i'v only seen 2 types of deck,
belt drive, and so-called "direct-drive" that used an idler wheel with a rubber outer edge that connected with the deck.

[markusm]

Re: Capacitor brand identification?

how does the motor couple to the deck platter, is it an idler wheel?

i'v only seen 2 types of deck,
belt drive, and so-called "direct-drive" that used an idler wheel with a rubber outer edge that connected with the deck.

It's a Sony Brush less slot less motor, pretty big, that bolts up from the bottom of the turntable. The tip of the motor's shaft is the spindle your place the hole of the record on.

I see where I may have been wrong about the lubrication though... I'm looking at the service manual for a Dual TT that I might buy to try to fix (only $20, so not a big risk) and It's got to be the best service manual I've ever looked at, lots of pictures and explanations... Anyway, one of the pictures shows the cam that moves the tonearm, and looks to be a "similar" configuration to my Sony. On my sony there is a gear on the shaft that sits just under the platter, next to it is a larger gear that's missing teeth on both sides. Where those missing teeth are, there are little "sub gears" on top that are moved outward by a solenoid when the motor starts turning... I just noticed from the picture in the Dual manual that there are cam groves on the bottom side of the large gear that moves the lever, that moves the tonearm... So I'm thinking if that tonearm lever is gunked up too bad, that might be dragging down the motor when the gear engages with the gear on the motor shaft.