Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

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  • rockit711
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 63
    • Australia

    #1

    Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

    I have searched already but despite many many promising threads on this and similar power boards I have been unable to locate anything that has done the same in previous threads.

    The board was presented to me with no power outputs whatsoever and a few clearly blown components:
    QS802 and QS804 were shorted and cracked open.
    RS833 and RS815 had likewise blown apart.
    DS810 had also blown the top off its casing (and was open)
    DS808 had no visible signs of damage but was measuring open with a diode test.
    the main fuse had also blown


    All the other components in this area tested as good with the tools I have (a basic DMM), I checked resistors, diodes and transistors and they all tested good.



    So based on a few places that seem to have had a similar issue I went ahead and replaced these:

    I replaced QS8020 and 804 with identical MOSFETS to those originally fitted (12N50T).
    RS833 &815 were replaced with 47Ohm resistors as seems to be fitted in this spot based on a web search (the original markings were erased when they had exploded).
    The original diodes "A4" BAV70 were replaced with "B3" 1SS184 diodes - the closest I had on hand, but they are very close specs (basically just +5V breakdown voltage) and I've seen these diodes on the 64" version of this board in that spot.
    replaced the main fuse.


    When I plugged it in with nothing else I get the standby power coming on as expected.

    When I pull PS_on to ground I get the 5V and 15V rails coming on as expected.

    HOWEVER when I pull VS_on high I get a power cycling of the main relay with VA/VS not really moving at all (there seems to be a few mV DC between Vs and ground coinciding with the very end of the turn on cycle but that is it).


    I would wager that the power cycling is the MICOM detecting there is no VS/VA and shutting down the power board before restarting again, so i doubt its that side of the circuit and that its just there's absolutely no life from the VA/VS lines. so it really has to be something on the switching side as otherwise there would be *something* happening on the secondary side.
    I tried swapping in a few components from another board that had the same ones, the capacitor CS825 - 68nF 1250V MMKP, and the controller - "25600" - I assume a UCC25600. Just got exactly the same result - just a clicking.


    I have confirmed that the 25600 is good and that the FETS I'm using are good (by putting them into another board and it powers up and works OK).


    Can anyone give any guidance as to what may be causing this issue? And how to go about diagnosing further?

    I have access to a few other Samsung power boards with the same topology (slight component changes) to scavenge parts from if necessary.

    I have attached some photos of the board overall, and some closeups of the area the failed components were located in. Its a relatively isolated part of the board, seems that the chip is turned on/off by cutting its VCC ~+15V supply, and the only other inputs are the PFC boosted ~400V and the feedback - which is difficult to test seeing that there is absolutely no life on the secondary!



    Every repair kit I can find for this board seems to just replace the FETs in this area and nothing else (at least in this specific area) - it makes me wonder if this failed in a different way to have taken out the resistors and diodes aswell.

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  • rockit711
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 63
    • Australia

    #2
    Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

    OK, a bit of further information:

    I tested the AC voltage across the gate driver transformer (primary side - UCC25600 side) and got a mere .6V momentarily. When I tested one of the other working boards with the same topology I got 7V here, so .6V doesn't seem right to me. does that mean the problem may be in the switching PNP/NPN combos or the zener diodes on this part of the circuit? or could it be the gate drive transformer?

    Comment

    • rockit711
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2015
      • 63
      • Australia

      #3
      Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

      After a bit closer inspection it looks like one of the secondary coils of the gate drive transformer has failed- the insulation was all melted and flaky and wasn't insulating anymore - I could getting a 0 ohm resistance reading by touching the probes on any points of the exposed coil. I assume this was another victim of whatever blew out the FETs, resistors and diodes originally.

      I replaced the transformer with one that looks (visually) identical to it off one of the other power boards.

      fired the board up and pop the fuse goes and now both FETs are completely shorted out again.

      So I tried swapping in the diodes, disc capacitors, transistors and the IC off one of the other power boards and some new FETs and again pop, fuse gone and FETs shorted.

      As far as I can tell all the components in this area are still working (minus the FETs of course) - when I put them back into the other board it works still.


      I think this effectively rules out the 25600 and its support circuitry (the only thing remaining that it could be are the smd caps which I can't test effectively (none are shorted) but I honestly cannot see how that would cause this particular fault - but maybe someone smarter than I may know if this is the case).

      Any thoughts?


      As far as I can see this leaves really just 4 things left (this part of the circuit has very little "connectivity" to the rest of the board.
      1) the IC VCC input - I think its relatively safe to rule this out - surely if it was this the IC would go into UVLO/OVP and shutdown not pop FETs and fuses.

      2) The PFC stage power output - I'm not sure what this could do to cause this failure, when I have just the low voltage rails turned on the PFC seems to be outputting the correct voltage of ~400V. possibly a transient coinciding with the VA/VS powerup?

      3) The feedback loop - again I'm not really sure why this would cause the FETs to pop. I've tested all the components in the feedback loop in any case and they all test as good - I might try swapping them out with some of the other ones just to be safe though.

      4) The main transformer - again I don't know why this could fail the FETs, but this topology is new to me and I know it relies on the transformers inductance for a resonance effect (or something along those lines) so perhaps if this transformer has some shorted coils too this could do something unexpected?
      Last edited by rockit711; 12-21-2016, 07:39 AM.

      Comment

      • rockit711
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 63
        • Australia

        #4
        Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

        Bump. any ideas at all?

        Comment

        • rigasr
          New Member
          • Apr 2017
          • 1
          • USA

          #5
          Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

          ROCKIT711,
          Were you able to figure this out?
          I am having similar issue that I am troubleshooting on my BN44-00514A board but need some advise on a couple things.
          Diodes DS808 and DS810 seem suspect. The legend on them is B3B0 but I cant find anything on the net about such diodes. You mention you used BAV70 diodes, was that for DS808 and DS810 and are they equivalent to what is on the board?
          Both resistors RS819 and RS833 were shot and I replaced them with 47 ohms.
          Also, RS829 measured 220K ohms however the legend on it is 103 which should be 10K Ohm so I replaced it with a 10K ohm resistor, the same as RS835.
          So really all I am looking for is what equivalent diodes to use for DS808 and DS810 and if you got yours sorted out.
          Thanks

          Comment

          • avsion
            New Member
            • Jan 2018
            • 4
            • Australia

            #6
            Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

            RIGASR,
            I have the same issue with with my BN44-00514A, DS808 and DS810 both are faulty, did you managed to find the part numbers? i did some research and BAV70 is look like the DS808/810 diode, but there are many different models and specs,
            see link from mouser electronics https://au.mouser.com/_/?Keyword=BAV70&FS=True

            also is anyone know where to get the BN44-00514A repair service manual or part list to source the parts for this board?

            Thank you

            Comment

            • neex
              Member
              • Jan 2017
              • 27
              • Canada

              #7
              Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

              Samsung BN44-00333A-PSPF461501A-1.pdf

              Does this help?

              Comment

              • neex
                Member
                • Jan 2017
                • 27
                • Canada

                #8
                Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

                Samsung.eng_BN44-00201A.pdf

                I forgot this one.

                Comment

                • avsion
                  New Member
                  • Jan 2018
                  • 4
                  • Australia

                  #9
                  Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

                  Thanks NEEX,

                  I can see on BN44-00201A DIXXX are showing BAV70 SOT-23 but doesn't say the manufacturer part number, i had a look on another site (see link below) but the search results show many options with different specs.
                  also as its not the same board it can be different manufacturer part number. is anyone can clear this?

                  this one looks the closest, what do you think?

                  https://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/BAV70/BAV70FSCT-ND/458931

                  Thank you

                  https://www.digikey.com.au/products/...0&pageSize=100
                  Last edited by avsion; 01-15-2018, 11:00 PM.

                  Comment

                  • avsion
                    New Member
                    • Jan 2018
                    • 4
                    • Australia

                    #10
                    Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

                    I think i found it had a close look on the diode marking, very hard to see, it has A4 marking see attached image. then i had a look on local supplier data sheet, see attached, and it confirm the marking A4. i should be safe with this one right?

                    http://au.element14.com/on-semicondu...-23/dp/9843604

                    Thank you
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • avsion
                      New Member
                      • Jan 2018
                      • 4
                      • Australia

                      #11
                      Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

                      Hi Guys,

                      I'm still trying to find the issue with the standby circuit, ATM i don't have any 5v STBY and 4.3V PS-ON coming to CN801 i.e nothing on the cold side.
                      i follow the hot side DC voltage from the BR>PFC>Filter Caps>STBY Transformer via ICE3BR2565JF flyback circuit and i'm getting 330V on the hot side of the transformer. i also get 330 volts coming in to one of the ICE3BR2565JF pins.
                      when checking the other pins on the ICE3BR2565JF i don't get any 18v coming in from the ICE3BR2565JF flyback circuit to start the ICE3BR2565JF. So i have a good feeling that the issue is the ICE3BR2565JF but this area was covered in silicon, when relieved i found few faulty components such as CX895, DX859 and damaged printed circuit which i soldered wire, also DQ804 is a suspect, see attached images.

                      the problem now is as follows:
                      1. as i don't have the diagram to find out the part numbers so i can't order the DQ804, CX895 and DX859
                      2. I cant follow the damaged printed circuit as there are black marking covering it, so i can't confirm the path to fix.

                      Is there any way to find out the part numbers and the damaged circuit path of the above without the diagram?

                      Till now i have tested and replaced with new ones all the following:
                      1. All the CAPs on the board (except the HV Hot and cold big filter caps)
                      2. DS810 small signal diode BAV70
                      3. QS802 & QS804 Switching Fets
                      4. Tested all the main diode, DQ804 was measuring 0.200v when all the others UF4007 was measuring 0.500v

                      FYI i just started a month ago learning basic electronics (very late stage ),SMPS Circuits as a hobby and knowledge, i'M building up my LAB equipment ATM.

                      Thank you for your help.
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by avsion; 02-26-2018, 05:09 AM.

                      Comment

                      • decayed.cell
                        Member
                        • Sep 2018
                        • 11
                        • Australia

                        #12
                        Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

                        Originally posted by avsion
                        RIGASR,
                        I have the same issue with with my BN44-00514A, DS808 and DS810 both are faulty, did you managed to find the part numbers? i did some research and BAV70 is look like the DS808/810 diode, but there are many different models and specs,
                        see link from mouser electronics https://au.mouser.com/_/?Keyword=BAV70&FS=True

                        also is anyone know where to get the BN44-00514A repair service manual or part list to source the parts for this board?

                        Thank you
                        I had a look on Taobao, and it appears to be that part number for BAV70 A4 are LBAV70LT1G

                        Comment

                        • R_J
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Jun 2012
                          • 9514
                          • Canada

                          #13
                          Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

                          If QS804 and QS802 were bad, also check the two smd resistors, RS833 & RS819 47Ω 1/10 watt
                          Regarding the icebr2565, If you have 330v on pin 1 and 0 on VCC pin 4, the ic is bad. It has a startup cell which supplies the startup VCC internally, usually around 10v. once the circuit starts working, the run voltage is supplied by the transformer/diode/cap to supply about 18 volts to keep the ic running.
                          The BN44-00329a schematic uses a ICE3BR2565JF
                          Last edited by R_J; 01-29-2019, 10:43 AM.

                          Comment

                          • TetonJeff
                            New Member
                            • Jan 2020
                            • 1
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

                            Hi All,
                            Great info above. New member here with limited electronics experience but handy. My most recent adventure is getting my PN60E8000 back up and running. Currently working power supply board BN44-00514A. Main fuse was blown. Got a repair kit from ShopJimmy. Replaced fuse and then when plugged in, sparks and smoke from DS808. Local diode also fried to the point it is unrecognizable. Checked resistors. Resistance across 470 ohm is 10K? Confusing. I'm looking for a schematic/parts list that better describes circuits and parts. Is this available out there? Any help appreciated.

                            Comment

                            • frica
                              Member
                              • Nov 2017
                              • 37
                              • Spain

                              #15
                              Re: Samsung 60" plasma power supply issue - BN44-00514A

                              Originally posted by TetonJeff
                              Hi All,
                              Checked resistors. Resistance across 470 ohm is 10K?
                              Resistors use to fail opening. Please picture of the resistor could be help.

                              Comment

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